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Fact Checking Obamacare Premium Increases

By NoCoupForYou follow NoCoupForYou   2016 Oct 24, 10:06pm 7,099 views   49 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


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10   AllTruth   ignore (1)   2016 Oct 25, 8:52am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Some FACTS for Libtarded people:

psst, spoiler alert - Obamacare is an absolute disaster & getting worse in terms of MUCH higher costs & MUCH less choice each year.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article110203782.html

"Insurers are raising the 2017 premiums for a popular and significant group of health plans sold through HealthCare.gov by an average of 25 percent, more than triple the increase for this year, according to new government figures.

The spike in average rates for the 38 states that rely on the federal marketplace created under the Affordable Care Act was announced by federal health officials on Monday. The figures serve broadly to confirm what has become evident piecemeal in recent months: Prompted by a burden of unexpectedly sick ACA customers, some insurers are dropping out while many remaining companies are struggling to cover their costs.

In disclosing the 2017 rates, officials played down the impact of higher prices on consumers. They said that more than eight in 10 consumers will qualify for ACA subsidies that will cushion them from sticker shock. And they noted that as premiums go up, more Americans will be eligible for the tax credits.

As in previous years, the officials stressed that, if current customers shop around, many will find coverage that is less expensive than what they have. With subsidies, more than three-quarters of customers will be able to find a health plan next year for which they pay $100 or less in monthly premiums, according to the new data. People who have ACA coverage tend to qualify for relatively large tax credits because their incomes tend to skew low.

The portrait of rates and availability of health plans in the law’s marketplaces has become an annual ritual since the exchanges began selling insurance during fall 2013. Next week, the marketplaces will open for their fourth sign-up season, and the Obama administration is predicting that 11.4 million people will pick health plans by the end of January - about 1 million more than the number of Americans with such coverage now.

The steep increase of 25 percent is the average for the health plans on which the ACA’s tax credits are based each year - the policy in each part of the country that has the second-lowest rate among plans offering a “silver” tier of coverage. In a conference call with reporters, two Department of Health and Human Services officials did not mention that percentage.

An accompanying HHS research brief containing the overall patterns and state-level data also shows that health plan options are dwindling, although almost all ACA shoppers will have some choice of plans for 2017.

Among the states relying on HealthCare.gov, the typical number of plans available is declining by more than one-third, from 47 to 30. Competition is falling in all but four of those states, though the decrease varies significantly. In Florida, the average marketplace customer will have three more plan choices than for this year. In Arizona, the number of plans will plummet from 65 to four.

And 21 percent of the customers shopping in the federal exchange will find only one insurance company, compared with 2 percent for 2016.

In a statement accompanying the new data, HHS Secretary Sylvia Mathews Burwell said that insurers are “continuing to adapt” to a new market in which they must compete for customers based on their price and quality, rather than freezing out people with medical conditions. Burwell said that premiums have been influenced by “efforts to undermine the ACA,” including a decision by the Republican-led Congress to block money intended to help buffer insurers with high-cost customers."

11   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2016 Oct 25, 9:30am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

YesYNot All Polls are Rigged says

The Deplorable DFJ says

It's the biggest lie the left uses.

When the facts don't Feelz good Trumpkins just pretend. Keep listening to Alex Jones et al. and ridicule the left. One of these days Cheeto Jesus will come to earth and save you.

No idiot. You cited an article that was patenly dishonest. The fact is you are dishonest and don't care that you are. Integrity and being a decent human being don't enter your daily thoughts.

Tobey you are scum, and one of the least credible posters on Pat.net

12   Shaman   ignore (2)   2016 Oct 25, 9:37am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

I agree with DFJ. YesYnot is the most dishonest and uninteresting poster who ever schilled for the DNC on Patnet. He should be fired from his schilling job and replaced with five Chindians whose broken grammar and poorly constructed sentences would still be more persuasive than his daily drivel.

13   AllTruth   ignore (1)   2016 Oct 25, 9:40am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

YesYnot would have his/her job replaced by 10 Indian IT workers (15 to 18 year old spammers in New Delhi) if Hillary has her way, at a 97% cost savings.

Hillary Clinton LOVES H1B DNC trolls.

14   anonymous   ignore (null)   2016 Oct 25, 9:40am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

How quickly you forget HydroCabron.

YesYNot at least expresses a desire for discussion of issues.

15   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 9:41am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

The Deplorable DFJ says

The fact is you are dishonest and don't care that you are.

The fact is that you, Quigly, and several of the other deplorables have the alt-right set of 'facts,' and don't care that Trump lies all of the time, b/c it Feelz good. I've honestly shared my own Obamacare quote, and pointed out possible ways that the Obamacare #s are getting mis-reported. I've also admitted that there are problems. Your Feelz candidate wants to keep the part about insuring people with preexisting conditions but use magic to lower the rates. His only good idea is to try to get more competition by getting rid of the 'lines around the states.' It's too bad he's such an illiterate tool, and cannot express the idea well. I notice that neither of you can argue with any ideas.

16   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 9:43am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

errc says

YesYNot at least expresses a desire for discussion of issues.

I appreciate that you noticed this.

17   anonymous   ignore (null)   2016 Oct 25, 9:45am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

His only good idea is to try to get more competition b

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Not true. He's mentioned that providers should have to display the rates they charge. Some transparency and information would certainly benefit consumers

18   anonymous   ignore (null)   2016 Oct 25, 9:48am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

YesYNot All Polls are Rigged says

errc says

YesYNot at least expresses a desire for discussion of issues.

I appreciate that you noticed this.

Of course. I don't have any insecurities in my constitution. You don't have to agree with me for me to appreciate the discussion. On the contrary, I search out good information and alternative view points

19   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2016 Oct 25, 9:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

YesYNot All Polls are Rigged says

The Deplorable DFJ says

The fact is you are dishonest and don't care that you are.

The fact is that you, Quigly, and several of the other deplorables have the alt-right set of 'facts,' and don't care that Trump lies all of the time, b/c it Feelz good. I've honestly shared my own Obamacare quote, and pointed out possible ways that the Obamacare #s are getting mis-reported. I've also admitted that there are problems. Your Feelz candidate wants to keep the part about insuring people with preexisting conditions but use magic to lower the rates. His only good idea is to try to get more competition by getting rid of the 'lines around the states.' It's too bad he's such an illiterate tool, and cannot express the idea well. I notice that neither of you can argue with any ideas.

YOU presented the argument that if you switch to the lowest price plan, your premium would decrease. That's a disingenuous lie by changing the baseline.

this has nothing to do with feelings, nothing to do with "alt-right facts", whatever the hell that is. It has ONLY to do with your statements.

Errc why would I discuss anything with someone who is intentionally dishonest? There's no basis for discussion.

20   anonymous   ignore (null)   2016 Oct 25, 9:56am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Errc why would I discuss anything with someone who is intentionally dishonest? There's no basis for discussion.

-----------

Well if we're being honest here, why would anyone discuss anything here, with you? You've said multiple times that you view posting here as a big joke, and no one should take it seriously.

21   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2016 Oct 25, 9:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

errc says

Errc why would I discuss anything with someone who is intentionally dishonest? There's no basis for discussion.

-----------

Well if we're being honest here, why would anyone discuss anything here, with you? You've said multiple times that you view posting here as a big joke, and no one should take it seriously.

Yet they do...hmmmm

Btw that was deflection, and did not answer the question.

22   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 10:01am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

The Deplorable DFJ says

That's a disingenuous lie by changing the baseline.

It is not a lie. It's a fact. It's also not even misleading, because I never said that they would keep the same coverage. Many people buy the silver plan. I'm pointing out that if they think that it's a bad deal, then buy the minimum required and try not to get sick and / or put the savings away to pay for medical expenses. That would actually put some pressure on insurers to lower prices. It's also not clear whether or not people could save money by switching to another company at the same level of coverage, b/c the media reporting is so unclear. I also pointed that out in my original post. I know you can do that with cable/internet companies, but many people don't. So, it probable that they don't do it with Obamacare. Many people have been cheerleading the failure of Obamacare for political reasons. That's a shame, even if it Feelz good.

23   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2016 Oct 25, 10:03am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

YesYNot All Polls are Rigged says

any people have been cheerleading the failure of Obamacare for political reasons

That is dumb. If Obamacare was a roaring success-anybody would look like a fool criticizing it. heck even Obama came out and said it was just like a starter home.

24   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 10:03am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

errc says

Not true. He's mentioned that providers should have to display the rates they charge. Some transparency and information would certainly benefit consumers

I agree. This is another good Trump idea, and I've noted it in the past. I'm just categorizing this as a provider issue rather than an insurance issue, but I agree it does fall under the general category of healthcare. Since the ACA also covers provider related issues, it could be fit under the Obamacare idea category.

25   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2016 Oct 25, 10:04am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

YesYNot All Polls are Rigged says

Your Feelz candidate wants to keep the part about insuring people with preexisting conditions but use magic to lower the rates.

Breaking down the artificial state barriers is a step. Mandatory published cash prices for common procedures would be another.

26   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 10:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

lostand confused says

If Obamacare was a roaring success-anybody would look like a fool criticizing

It's not a roaring success. Like you said, even Obama doesn't claim that. The only question is whether to try to fix it or just throw it out and go back to the way things were. Until an alternative plan emerges, those are the options. If you don't think that Republicans wanted it to work, well... I don't know what to say. It was basically their plan. As others love to point out, it was started by the heritage foundation and first implemented by Romney. It was passed, because the Democrats wanted to help cover more people, and it was the only thing that the Democrats could get passed. Most of the Democrats are hoping it was just a start, and that a single payer option will be implemented.

27   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 10:16am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Thunderlips Russian Agent 0069 says

Breaking down the artificial state barriers is a step. Mandatory published cash prices for common procedures would be another.

Yeah, this is a good idea. I'll be interested to see if Trump tries to advocate for any of his good ideas after he loses. If he complains about how everything was rigged, starts a media company, and forgets these ideas, we'll see where his heart is.

28   MMR   ignore (0)   2016 Oct 25, 10:24am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

errc says

Until the USFEDGOV denounces their dangerous recommendations on nutrition, we will continue to see runaway costs.

Not a fan of food pyramid in least, but honestly, if people ate 2000-2500 calories a day using pyramid guidelines, the number of morbidly obese would be significantly less. I would even venture to say that those who follow those requirements to the T wouldn't, for most part, be obese.

They might not have a noteworthy physique but they wouldn't be 300 lbs or more either . Probably in line with Western Europe or Canada I suspect

Subsidies to the grain industries are probably the root of the problem when people should be eating more fibrous and leafy green vegetables and lumping all into category of carbs

29   anonymous   ignore (null)   2016 Oct 25, 10:26am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I'm pointing out that if they think that it's a bad deal, then buy the minimum required

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That's still a horrifically expensive, bad deal.

That would actually put some pressure on insurers to lower prices

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How?

I know you can do that with cable/internet companies, but many people don't.

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You sure about this? In my region, it's Comcast or bust. Verizon and Dish are not comparable alternatives.

30   MMR   ignore (0)   2016 Oct 25, 10:27am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

errc says

You sure about this? In my region, it's Comcast or bust

You still in philly?

31   anonymous   ignore (null)   2016 Oct 25, 10:32am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

MMR says

errc says

Until the USFEDGOV denounces their dangerous recommendations on nutrition, we will continue to see runaway costs.

Not a fan of food pyramid in lease but honestly, if people ate 2000-2500 calories a day using pyramid guidelines, the number of morbidly obese would be significantly less. I would even venture to say that those who follow those requirements to the T wouldn't, for most part be obese.

They might not have a noteworthy physique but they wouldn't be 300 lbs or more either . Probably in line with Western Europe or Canada I suspect

Grain Group: six ounce-equivalents or servings each day. Choose at least three that are whole grain.
Vegetable Group: 2.5 cups total for five servings each day. Choose a variety of vegetables of different colors, including dark green and orange.
Fruit Group: 2 cups total for four servings each day. Choose a variety of fruits of different colors.
Milk Group: 3 cups each day. Yogurt, milk, and cheese (low-fat or fat-free versions are best).
Meats and Beans Group: 5.5 ounces total for two or three servings each day. Lean meats, chicken, eggs, nuts, dried beans and peas, and fish.
Oils: six teaspoons or servings each day. Choose mono- and polyunsaturated oils.
Discretionary Calories: a small amount. An allotment of 100 to 300 calories can be used on foods with fats or sugars, like dessert.

This is a recipe for disaster. They are still suggesting 11 servings of cereals and grains per day. Three servings from the milk group wtf? And contrary to science, they are advising against eating fats, especially healthy fats.

We need Science to intervene here with facts

32   anonymous   ignore (null)   2016 Oct 25, 10:35am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

MMR says

errc says

You sure about this? In my region, it's Comcast or bust

You still in philly?

At Rowan U right now. But i purchase internet ~70 miles west of Philly in a Comcast stranglehold

33   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 10:40am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

errc says

How?

Insurance companies want to maximize revenue. There are two ways that they can lose revenue. They can lose it to competition or they can lose it by people choosing not to consume as much (reduced demand at higher prices). Both of these things can keep prices down, and it's not unique to healthcare. The individual state markets reduce competition, and help the insurance companies at our expense, IMO. Obamacare forces them to buy some minimum, which helps the insurance companies with overall demand. But if people choose to buy more than they have to, they are further helping the insurance companies maximize revenue. If it's not a good deal, buy the minimum. This seems pretty obvious to me. The guidance saying that the silver plan is probably best assumes that you are going to use the insurance the average amount.

errc says

In my region, it's Comcast or bust.

In my region, it's comcast or fios if you want fast internet. There are other options if you like it slow. The best deal is surf back and forth getting the introductory deals. It's literally half price that way. Sometimes you can get the intro rate by threatening to leave. Other times you have to actually leave. Lately, I have to switch, and then the idiots come begging for me to switch back. So, even if your only other option is slow internet, if you switch to that for a month, comcast might offer you the intro rate to get you back. They do different things in each market for obvious reasons.

34   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 10:42am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

errc says

We need Science to intervene here with facts

The biggest knock on low fat diets is that most people don't follow them. That's what the science consistently says. To the extent that they do follow low fat diets, they don't use sugar sparingly.

35   anonymous   ignore (null)   2016 Oct 25, 10:54am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

YesYNot All Polls are Rigged says

errc says

We need Science to intervene here with facts

The biggest knock on low fat diets is that most people don't follow them. That's what the science consistently says. To the extent that they do follow low fat diets, they don't use sugar sparingly.

People don't follow them because they aren't satiated.

Science and Facts tell us that humans meet their nutritional needs from animal fats, animal proteins, and vegetables. Everyone knows this

36   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 11:30am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

errc says

People don't follow them because they aren't satiated.

Whole foods are plenty satiating. Anyone who gets past the cravings for junk food will be satiated if low fat whole foods is what they choose to eat. A guy is eating nothing but potatoes for the whole year and has lost a shit-load of weight. It's simply hard to eat too many calories when you aren't eating fats and sweets, regardless of what you shove down your face. In any case, it pays for people to try to figure out what works for them. Make big changes, and you get big results. Little changes = little results and usually reversion to zero changes over time.

37   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2016 Oct 25, 11:45am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/10/25/the-affordable-care-act-raised-a-familys-average-premium-cost-by-5000-n2236813

The "Affordable" Care Act Raised A Family's Average Premium Cost By $5,000

In 2008, the average health insurance premium cost a family about $12,680 every year. Now, after the passage of the Affordable Care Act, the average premium cost for a family has ballooned to $17,500.

38   Gary Anderson   ignore (0)   2016 Oct 25, 11:54am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

I am telling you guys, getting less than 1 percent yields on bonds is a big reason why premiums are going up. The Fed is screwing insurance companies. John Mauldin has said so and I said so here:

http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/economics--politics-education/pros-and-cons-of-attacking-the-federal-reserve-bank?post=107786&uid=4798

and here:

http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/bonds/economic-theory-is-dead-new-normal-means-no-recovery?post=108622&uid=4798

39   curious2   ignore (0)   2016 Oct 25, 12:16pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Gary Anderson says

I am telling you guys....

You keep saying that, but your argument is clearly mistaken as applied to Obamneycare. In the areas of life insurance, and property and "casualty" (meaning property damage) insurance, you have a point that Fed policy is increasing insurance premiums. Your point does not apply to medical insurance, nor to automobile collision insurance, where premiums pay claims on an ongoing basis. The increase in Obamneycare premiums results from the structure of Obamneycare itself.

AllTruth says

Prompted by a burden of unexpectedly sick ACA customers....

Mainly they are "sick" in the head, insisting on diagnostic radiation and other procedures that confer no benefit, and toxic SSRI placebos, all without price controls. When you combine mandatory subsidized insurance, an entrepreneurial provider culture without price controls, and a culture of idiots conditioned to "get more" from their insurance even if it kills them, you get what the lobbyists predicted when they designed the legislation: rising premiums and soaring profits for the provider lobbies.

BTW, @YesYNot, 20% of customers have no choice about switching insurers, because they have only one government-approved insurance corporation in their market. So, they are not allowed to say no, regardless of what the approved insurance corporation decides to charge. You could say they can switch to a lower tier of coverage, but that's assuming they weren't already at the lowest, and besides it's blaming the victim. With runaway price gouging by providers, the lower tiers can become unusable due to deductibles and co-pays. The system is operating as designed, maximizing revenue for its authors, while minimizing the value they deliver.

40   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2016 Oct 25, 12:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

It's no accident the most obese countries in the world are big Corn eaters.

41   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (3)   2016 Oct 25, 12:38pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

curious2 says

BTW, @YesYNot, 20% of customers have no choice about switching insurers, because they have only one government-approved insurance corporation in their market.

This is a big problem. If there is no competition, it's failed in that market. How do the prices look in states like these compared to states with options? In general, the map of which states didn't expand medicaid is similar to the map that shows only one insurer option. Ironically, I live in state that did not expand medicaid, but has multiple options.
http://familiesusa.org/product/50-state-look-medicaid-expansion
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/upshot/obamacare-options-in-many-parts-of-country-only-one-insurer-will-remain.html?_r=0

I'm not going to try to find numbers to back this up, but most of these states have Republican governors. Is it a coincidence that these Republican governed states refused to expand Medicaid and their citizens now have a non-working market for health insurance?

42   curious2   ignore (0)   2016 Oct 25, 12:45pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

YesYNot All Polls are Rigged says

How do the prices look in states like these compared to states with options?
***
Is it a coincidence that these Republican governed states refused to expand Medicaid and their citizens now have a non-working market for health insurance?

Almost every state is reporting double-digit percentage increases, on top of spending that was already the highest of any jurisdiction in the history of the world. If you want to say the Republicans are worse, fine, there is plenty of evidence to support that argument. Obamneycare was first enacted as Romneycare, and first proposed as HeritageFoundationCare. The Democrats though have consistently enabled the Republicans, from Johnson's 1965 escalation of what became Nixon's War in southeast Asia (Viet Nam, Cambodia, Laos...) to Hillary's vote for W's war in Iraq, to enacting Obamneycare on a party-line basis, to enacting NPVIC on a party-line basis. For the really huge feasts, the Republicans get the Democrats to set the table and prepare the meal.

43   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2016 Oct 25, 12:53pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

And, the Penalties for Declining Mandatory Insurance (without Price Controls) are increasing Substantially this year. More than double!

The Obamacare tax is set to hit particularly hard this year, and federal and state officials are hoping the threat of a $1,000 tax bill will finally be enough to prod reluctant Americans to sign up for the president’s controversial health law.

California officials spotlighted the “individual mandate” in particularly blunt terms Wednesday, saying time is running out before Uncle Sam asks them to pay “their fair share” for the health overhaul.

The minimum penalty in 2016 will be $695, and the average penalty will be $969, the government estimates, as wealthier taxpayers who exceed the minimum must pay a 2.5 percent tax on their income above the filing threshold.

In 2015 the minimum tax was just $325, and the tax rate for wealthier families was only 2 percent.

“For 2016 that penalty is going up, and it’s going up a lot,” Covered California Executive Director Peter V. Lee said in a conference call devoted to the “costly gamble” that consumers take by remaining uninsured.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/13/obamacare-penalty-fee-increasing-sharply-in-2016/

44   anonymous   ignore (null)   2016 Oct 25, 1:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

The majority of people get nothing in return for their health insurance, so the penalty cannot dissuade Working Class Americans from opting out, until it is higher than the cost of insurance. Listening to CNN radio on my drive this morning, that's exactly what they were whining for; that the penalty must be much higher. That and how it is bullshit that Trump has a valid position opposite Hillary (we sll know how much they loathe having to talk about real issues, especially when it doesn't help their Statist candidate).

The other thing the Oligarchs lackeys go on and on about, is that "20 million more people have coverage under Obamacare!". Any thinking person wonders, And?

Why is that sold as a good thing?

Then, the caveat that low income folk don't see a difference, because subsidies. Again, we wonder, who funds the subsidy?

46   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2016 Oct 27, 1:22pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Remember Folks:

48   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2016 Nov 2, 8:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/obamacare-hikes-hammer-swing-state-voters/
Obamacare Hikes Hammer Swing-State Voters

ut Matt Schlapp, chairman of the American Conservative Union, said the notices people are receiving in the mail are more powerful than all of the "micro-targeting" that Democrats famously employed in President Obama's presidential campaigns to tailor specific messages to individual voters.

"What is more targeted than a letter from the government to the head of a household telling him that his second-biggest expense is going up by 50 percent?" he said. "It just blows by all the other communications they're getting."

49   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2016 Nov 2, 8:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Repeal and Repell.

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