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On the ethics of mass scanning license plate numbers


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2016 Dec 29, 10:32am   2,713 views  11 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-open-road-tolling-be-completed-all-mta-bridges-and-tunnels-2017

At each crossing, and at structurally sensitive points on bridges and tunnels, advanced cameras and sensors are being installed to read license plates, regardless of lighting conditions or the vehicle's speed. Every vehicle that passes through a MTA bridge or tunnel will have their license place scanned, and the technology will instantly cross-check the vehicle's license plate number with the list of suspended registrations and send an alarm to the on-duty Trooper and Bridge and Tunnel Officers in a matter of seconds.

This guy is really upset about it: https://medium.com/mtracey/new-york-state-to-motorists-all-your-info-are-belong-to-us-b8224e2e22a9

But they already do this at the Golden Gate Bridge. On the one hand, it does feel kind of police-state-ish to automatically scan license plates, but on the other hand, there you already are, driving around with your license plate exposed, and pretty much anyone with some tech knowledge could scan and recognize plate letters and digits themselves. And the police have long gone around parking lots and entered random plates looking for people who are wanted on warrants, etc.

Do you have a right to drive anonymously?

#privacy #politics

Comments 1 - 11 of 11        Search these comments

1   Tenpoundbass   2016 Dec 29, 10:36am  

Since we live in a world where it is increasingly easier to get in legal trouble.
We need a court system that is easier to defend yourself.

The Judge shouldn't be on some power trip that he expects to legal jargon from over priced lawyers or he will just rule guilty because you were dumb enough to represent yourself.

"your honor I didn't do it, can you prove I did it? I rest my case!"

2   Strategist   2016 Dec 29, 10:37am  

Patrick says

Do you have a right to drive anonymously?

No. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

3   BayArea   2016 Dec 29, 11:22am  

Patrick, it's an interesting debate.

I don't think I have any issue with having my car's location scanned. There are instances where it may actually help as much as it can hurt. One that jumps out right away is child abduction, assuming that the HW/SW infrastructure is powerful enough to make it usable in real-time.

Additionally, there are several people in my family that could be driving my car on any given day. So having my car's plates scanned on a particular day at a particular location doesn't automatically mean I was in it.

At the same time, you wonder what the uses will be that with time extend beyond it's intended purpose, and how that will affect us.

And hopefully that Lic plate above doesn't belong to someone on patnet ;-)

4   marcus   2016 Dec 29, 11:22am  

It is disturbing, how quickly big brother's ability to track our movements has grown. On the other hand, it seems like eventually crime is going to be impossible without being caught, unless you have the right connections. Our loss of privacy and freedom will be seen as the price we pay for that, and citizens will accept it.

It's amazing how so many things that once seemed un-American have crept up on us since the year 2000.

Why isn't there more outrage about civil forfeiture ?

Why is Trump appointing an AG that wants to increase it ?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443299/civil-forfeiture-property-seizure-no-judicial-process-jeff-sesions-justice-department

5   Dan8267   2016 Dec 29, 2:07pm  

Patrick says

Do you have a right to drive anonymously?

I don't think that's the issue. The real issue is that it is trivially easy to, and the government is certain to, track the movements of all Americans by recording where people drive to and when. This can be done just by scanning license plates at intersections and doing an
insert into LicensePositionEvent (LocationId, License, Timestamp) values (@LocationOfCamera, @License, getDate())

From there you can tell a hell of a lot about people like
- where they work
- who they associate with
- how often they go to the library
- what cultural events they attend
- what their hobbies are
- what their eating habits are

From this primary information, you can deduce with great accuracy, who they will vote for, what legislation they would oppose, and whether they will support or oppose your politics. You can also entrap the individual or have the cops harass the individual by simply setting up patrols and putting arrest quotas in place around a particular street or intersection.

This power is ripe for abuse.

A general rule of thumb is, if you or the government isn't comfortable with the information being available to everyone including the Russians, ISIS, and pedophiles, then the information should not be available with a specific court order and then such orders should be hard to get.

6   Dan8267   2016 Dec 29, 2:09pm  

BayArea says

There are instances where it may actually help as much as it can hurt. One that jumps out right away is child abduction, assuming that the HW/SW infrastructure is powerful enough to make it usable in real-time.

You can get a pizza delivered to your exact location using your phone's GPS, yet 911 can't find you. I think we should fix that first before pretending that government will use this technology effectively to help people.

www.youtube.com/embed/A-XlyB_QQYs

8   Strategist   2016 Dec 29, 4:57pm  

marcus says

It is disturbing, how quickly big brother's ability to track our movements has grown. On the other hand, it seems like eventually crime is going to be impossible without being caught

That's good. Who wants crime.

9   anonymous   2016 Dec 29, 7:38pm  

The problem with mass surveillance in its present form, is that they cast such a wide net, and inundate themselves with sooo much data, that it is all virtually useless in real time. Sure, they can tell the story about what has already happened, with the data. But what value is that?

10   Strategist   2016 Dec 29, 7:47pm  

errc says

The problem with mass surveillance in its present form, is that they cast such a wide net, and inundate themselves with sooo much data, that it is all virtually useless in real time. Sure, they can tell the story about what has already happened, with the data. But what value is that?

It makes it easier to catch the culprits of a crime. London has cameras all over the place, and it has helped them to catch terrorists.

11   Ceffer   2016 Dec 29, 7:48pm  

The surveillance must not work very well, since the license plate in the OP has a sticker outdated by 22 years. Why have I wasted my DMV money for 22 years?

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