patrick.net

marcus says

For example, the title alone will probably put you on the defensive. You know who you are.

Kinda like if posted an article I wanted you to read that proves that Affirmative Action is racist and discriminatory?

marcus says

A must read article on political correctness and Trump

Too long, bro.

Right, people aren't regularly disciplined by Courts of Star Chamber at Unversities and Colleges, both Private and Public, for PC violations.

I guess all the lawsuits and legal threats reported on or initiated by this organization are just non-existent then.

https://www.thefire.org/

Does nobody read anymore ? Nobody is claiming that political correctness doesn't exist.

marcus says

I'm guessing many of the most authoritarian minds around here, won't be interested, or will find a way to not scratch the surface

marcus says

Does nobody read anymore ? Nobody is claiming that political correctness doesn't exist.

I don't read the Guardian.

It's a Pro-corporate Neoliberal and the very definition of Political Correctness Authoritarian, Rag.

It literally is ground zero for Mansplaining and Non-Cis-Hetero Pronouns

The Free Speech Activists of the 60s and 70s became the University Administrator and Diversity Expert Bullies of Today

Okay. Well then, that works out well for you doesn't it ? Are you afraid that you might gain insights about your own authoritarian dogma ?

I knew that title was not the greatest, and probably not written by the author. I also knew that even Patrick, let alone TPB or you wouldn't be able to read it, becasue of the title. But I called it a must read for a reason, and if you even got even 5 paragraphs in to it, you might have realized that you don't need to be afraid.

marcus says

Okay. Well then, that works out well for you doesn't it ? Are you afraid that you might gain insights about your own authoritarian dogma ?

At the Guardian? I read it alot until around 2015, until it was "Muh Vagina!!!!", Russia Bashing, and Remoaner nonsense. I actually had a membership, Marcus until late last year when Rusbridger left and they brought in these two Hysterics into the leadership position who turned the newspaper into standard Neoliberal Politically Correct Muh Vagina Uber Alles nonsense.

Okay, since none of you will read it, I'll ruin it a little by cutting to the chase:

Trump drew upon a classic element of anti-political-correctness by implying that while his opponents were operating according to a political agenda, he simply wanted to do what was sensible. He made numerous controversial policy proposals: deporting millions of undocumented immigrants, banning Muslims from entering the US, introducing stop-and-frisk policies that have been ruled unconstitutional. But by responding to critics with the accusation that they were simply being politically correct, Trump attempted to place these proposals beyond the realm of politics altogether. Something political is something that reasonable people might disagree about. By using the adjective as a put-down, Trump pretended that he was acting on truths so obvious that they lay beyond dispute. “That’s just common sense.”

The most alarming part of this approach is what it implies about Trump’s attitude to politics more broadly. His contempt for political correctness looks a lot like contempt for politics itself. He does not talk about diplomacy; he talks about “deals”. Debate and disagreement are central to politics, yet Trump has made clear that he has no time for these distractions. To play the anti-political-correctness card in response to a legitimate question about policy is to shut down discussion in much the same way that opponents of political correctness have long accused liberals and leftists of doing. It is a way of sidestepping debate by declaring that the topic is so trivial or so contrary to common sense that it is pointless to discuss it. The impulse is authoritarian. And by presenting himself as the champion of common sense, Trump gives himself permission to bypass politics altogether.

Bold added by me.

marcus one day you'll have to come to terms with reality that Trump is president and that liberals were wrong.

T L Lipsovich says

I don't read the Guardian.

It's a Pro-corporate Neoliberal and the very definition of Political Correctness Authoritarian, Rag.

It literally is ground zero for Mansplaining and Non-Cis-Hetero Pronouns

The Free Speech Activists of the 60s and 70s became the University Administrator and Diversity Expert Bullies of Today

Which makes it entertaining when they call out BBC for talking about 'Asian gangs', when they really mean pakistani muslim gangs.

marcus says

Trump drew upon a classic element of anti-political-correctness by implying that while his opponents were operating according to a political agenda, he simply wanted to do what was sensible

Sounds like his strategy was effective. DNC needs to stop picking winners and losers, regroup and figure out what went wrong.

marcus says

banning Muslims from entering the US

we can see what a fine job Europe has done in assimilating these refugees.

marcus says

deporting millions of undocumented immigrants

not as many people are coming across the border. I recently pointed out to a hillary supporter from Nigeria that obama deported more people than any other president, a fact that is even reported on CNN. She said "I think bush actually deported more". I just decided to shut my mouth

Low information voters isn't strictly a conservative or republican phenomenon

marcus says

It is a way of sidestepping debate by declaring that the topic is so trivial or so contrary to common sense that it is pointless to discuss it. The impulse is authoritarian. And by presenting himself as the champion of common sense, Trump gives himself permission to bypass politics altogether.

Oh bullshit. We have people talking about how others HAVE to learn their personal pronouns Xim, Zeer, and Zim. I prefer the simpler, gender neutral "Shithead".

There are places where not obeying this PC Speech Police will literally get you expelled, with the Admins keeping your tuition payments.

marcus says

It is a way of sidestepping debate by declaring that the topic is so trivial or so contrary to common sense that it is pointless to discuss it. The impulse is authoritarian. And by presenting himself as the champion of common sense, Trump gives himself permission to bypass politics altogether.

This is coming from the "all opinions are equal crowd". All opinions, are not equal, because there are such things as dumb ideas.

T L Lipsovich says

I prefer the simpler, gender neutral "Shithead".

I agree.

I honestly didn't think you were this stupid. OR maybe you should just read it if you want to comment further. There is no argument being made that there isn't some stupidity from a small portion of the left which I would I would refer to as identity politics. Which has gone a little crazy, but I think you would find it's probably 10% of our youth today that buy in to that nonsense. You're changing the subject.

The point is that anti-PC in it's worse form, the form I hear around here is about saying that you don't even have to discuss why you think you're right about let's say policies towards Islam. That you're correct becasue you're view is anti-politically correct. Almost every argument you will ever hear from TPB is of this form. I don't think he even knows what an argument is. He's just indignant from all the right wing PC bullshit he's been listening to over the years, and thinks that the weight of his feelings makes him correct. Although I will grant you that he's a special case. Even his assertions don't make sense most of the time.

But other supposedly more thoughtful people will use "oh the stupid PC elite establishment," as if this is an argument.

It's as if being not PC is an argument. What you or others who take this view are doing is creating a new political correctness that's worse and far more authoritarian. OF course what it's also doing in many circles is making racism okay again. Apparently being opposed to racism is really just political correctness, and therefore it's wrong. Anti political correctness is so liberating. You don't even have to debate things anymore..

It is not authoritarian to dismiss stupid ideas.

It is ridiculous to ask society to start all conversations by asking if somebody has special pronouns they prefer.

As the Amazing Atheist said, the best thing to do is to go up to one of these people and tell them your personal pronoun is "Nigger" and then bring them to some football players you know.

"Hey, uh, Nigg---"
POW! SLAM!!!

Trigger Warnings before courses is authoritarian. Demanding each individual person gets their own snowflake set of personal pronouns before you can communicate with them is Authoritarian. Naming an entire race of people innately evil (Whites) is Authoritarian. Telling people they have it easy because they are White is authoritarian.

It is not a "Phantom Enemy", it has utterly infected Government Offices, most Corporate Offices, and pretty much every University and College in the United States, UK, and beyond will severe, long-term career and lifetime penalties for failure to comply. It was imposed by a vocal, tiny minority, and would never be anything like what it is today with the least common sense and certainly not via democracy (except maybe at UC Berkeley).

T L Lipsovich says

It is ridiculous to ask society to start all conversations by asking if somebody has special pronouns they prefer.

I agree I agree I agree !! So does the author of the linked piece, I have to assume. That's not what political correctness is. That's what a very small portion of our society would like to make politically correct AND IT NEVER WILL !! Not even close. That's identity politics run amok. You're voicing a straw man that no liberal I know, except one student I've come across believes.

But what's right wing politically correct is is not having to argue your point of view becasue the opposing view is politically correct and we hate political correctness. That's the bottom line point of the piece after exploring an interesting history of the way the term politically correct has been used. You would even agree with most of it.

T L Lipsovich says

It is not a "Phantom Enemy"

Yes it was poorly titled, almost certainly not by the author. That shouldn't give you the excuse to be illiterate.

So you never will understand what the piece was about or even consider the point of view. No repsect for what I consider a must read. If you had read it, we might have had an actual conversation. I remember now why I've put you on ignore in the past.

Marcus, have you gone to college in the 90s? I sure did. And it was prevalent then: Mandatory meetings about sexual consent, told what things you can't say, asshole kids interrupting classes and getting away with it because it was about Mumia Abu Jamal and they were black, etc.

A friend of mine was fined $500, apologize or he'd be expelled by the College Admins for leaving a note on somebody elses door that read: "Our RA is being a tight ass". Some buttinsky read it and she had to report it to the authorities.

It's a thing.

marcus says

T L Lipsovich says

It is ridiculous to ask society to start all conversations by asking if somebody has special pronouns they prefer.

I agree I agree I agree !!

There is hope for you, Marcus. But i'm sure you will screw it up.

T L Lipsovich says

Marcus, have you gone to college in the 90s? I sure did. And it was prevalent then: Mandatory meetings about sexual consent, told what things you can't say, asshole kids interrupting classes and getting away with it because it was about Mumia Abu Jamal and they were black, etc.

Really? What colleges were those? From 98 to 06 I went to 4 different colleges, in Texas, Oregon, and Pennsylvania, part time a couple days a week getting my degree that I didn't get when I was younger. Didn't see a bit of it other than some pretty benign rules of student behaviour in the student handbook. The closest I came was a prof in philosophy that said any student that was offended by him saying fuck could take the class with a different prof. In 8 years I never saw anyone interrupt ( think you meant disrupt) a class about Mumia Abu or anything like that at all. Actually never saw anyone disrupt a class at all. There were student organizations that supported various causes, but they met quietly and didn't cause any problems.

Seems pretty odd I missed this huge nationwide trend of out of control PC domination of college campuses. Especially since Portland and Scranton are very activist liberal places with liberal colleges. Strange as it may sound UTPA in the RIo Grande valley is pretty liberal in many respects also. Yet nothing, nada, crickets chirping.

This is from your personal experience or what people have told you was their personal experience? How about some documentation on that? Listing of required mandatory meetings, things like that? Sounds like a couple incidents here and there hyped up into a bunch of bullshit to me.

MMR says

This is coming from the "all opinions are equal crowd". All opinions, are not equal, because there are such things as dumb ideas

If that were true, you might have a point. But consider Patrick, who I believe is an intelligent guy, does this all the time with the subject of Islam. On multiple occasions I have argued why (in my opinion) politicians not espousing a globally anti Islamic position is wise. I have done this at least 5 or 6 times. Many speeches by politicians including Obama have also explained in detail the rationale for this.

Patrick has never considered any of the arguments or at least he hasn't addressed or responded to them. His argument is that the point of view that opposes his view is "political correctness," and therefore (I guess ?) not worthy of considering ? OR by default it's therefore wrong ?

I guess if something has been debated, and the prevailing conclusion is one you don't agree with, then instead of arguing against the merits of the prevailing view, you can just label it as politically correct, and therefore wrong. But if you do that, please realize that what you really want is a dictator who has conned you in to believing that he will rule on behalf of your interests.

marcus says

Does nobody read anymore ?

yeah, but less than they write

T L Lipsovich says

college in the 90s? I sure did. And it was prevalent then: Mandatory meetings about sexual consent, told what things you can't say

Hm, I don't remember such things in the 90s...

Here's a story from that time. I was a TA in a first year physics lab - a fresh, off-the boat grad student. One day the experiment was about induction; the students had to generate electricity by moving a magnetic rod in and out from a coil. A guy called me because he was not getting anything. The reason - he was moving the rod too slowly. I told him that he should know better, that jerking/poking so slowly does not produce any results. I actually took my time to explain and demonstrate it, alluding clearly to sexual activity. There was a crowd by the end of the demonstration, all laughing. No consequences for me. Was I lucky?

A great excerpt:

It’s an old trick: the powerful encourage the less powerful to vent their rage against those who might have been their allies, and to delude themselves into thinking that they have been liberated. It costs the powerful nothing; it pays frightful dividends.

In other words, Trump is just a new twist on the good old "divide and conquer."

FP says

Was I lucky?

I don't know, we went to different schools. I spent my first two at a big State School before transferring to a Private University. The State School definitely had an "official line", but it was nowhere as bad as today.

Sounds to me you were in a STEM program where that bullshit by the nature of the coursework is usually not a big problem. I imagine Rensselaer or someplace like that is a lot less SJW crazed than a general University.

Back in the mid 90s it was mostly a hardcore tiny group that was wiggling it's way to officialdom, it had yet to seize the mainstream.

I could tell a Stinky Grad Student RA that if "Miles Davis beat his wife, she took one for great music" and get away with it (I had a Birth of the Cool shirt on and she 'reminded' me he beat his wife apparently).

T L Lipsovich says

Back in the mid 90s it was mostly a hardcore tiny group that was wiggling it's way to officialdom, it had yet to seize the mainstream.

T L Lipsovich says

. And it was prevalent then: Mandatory meetings about sexual consent, told what things you can't say, asshole kids interrupting classes and getting away with it because it was about Mumia Abu Jamal and they were black, etc.

One of these things is not like the other. Want to get your stories straight?