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Bitcoin and Crypto-currency


               
2017 Nov 5, 3:36pm   123,652 views  649 comments

by BayArea   follow (1)  

#investing

Hi guys,

I'd like to start a conversation on crypto-currency, particularly Bitcoin.

What do you all think about it from an investment point of view today? I have some buddies in the finance world who are quite bullish on it and claim we are just scratching the surface. Judging by the recent performance, they may be right.

For people who are investing in Bitcoin, what are you using to invest and what recommendations do you have for a new investor?

Also, how are gains taxed compared to typical stock market gains?

I read this week that over 100,000 merchants in the USA are accepting Bitcoin today.

At the same time, digital currency does scare me a bit as it seems so abstract. Curious what PatNet thinks.

Thanks guys!

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634   AD   2025 Nov 21, 11:23pm  

Misc says

With only $2 million in cash, it won't take long before it hits the capital markets for more cash infusions or starts selling its holdings to pay the bills.


As of Sept 2025, American Bitcoin Inc (owned by Eric Trump) has about $8 million in cash and net equity of $1.05 billion.

I understand your point that it needs cash to operate, and it may need to secure another loan or sell off existing assets (i.e., Bitcoin) to convert to cash.

We shall see how long the Bitcoin sell off continues since it started about 6 weeks ago when Bitcoin reached an all time high of around $126,000.
635   AD   2025 Nov 23, 4:22pm  

WTF ? ? ?

.......................

https://beincrypto.com/us-government-bitcoin-crash-microstrategy-fact-check/

Allegedly, US government officials wanted MicroStrategy’s market value to net asset value (mNAV) near 1.0 and therefore manufactured a crash on Bitcoin to compress the premium.

“The US is contemplating a multi-billion-dollar investment in MSTR, and they needed the mNAV to be 1 before it made sense for them to invest, so they manufactured a crash on bitcoin,” wrote Teddy, a popular user on X (Twitter).
637   AD   2025 Dec 1, 4:24pm  

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vanguard-now-allow-crypto-etfs-211500405.html

(Bloomberg) -- Vanguard Group, the world’s second-largest asset manager, has decided to allow ETFs and mutual funds that primarily hold cryptocurrencies to be traded on its platform, reversing a longstanding position.

Starting on Tuesday, Vanguard will allow ETFs and mutual funds that primarily hold select cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin, Ether, XRP, and Solana, to be eligible for trading on its platform. It’s a compromise that belies the firm’s long-standing view that digital assets are too volatile and speculative for serious portfolios and comes despite a more than $1 trillion drawdown in crypto market value since early October.
639   REpro   2025 Dec 1, 6:13pm  

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58678907
https://www.msn.com/en-us/technology/cryptocurrencies/china-bans-all-crypto-what-it-really-means-for-the-global-market/ar-AA1Gw1f4

The People’s Bank of China (PBoC) reaffirmed the total prohibition on crypto trading in late 2025, coordinating with 13 government agencies to crack down on illegal digital currency activities

For them trading cryptocurrency was devaluated to the level of trading baseball cards.
640   AD   2025 Dec 1, 6:30pm  

REpro says

The People’s Bank of China (PBoC) reaffirmed the total prohibition on crypto trading


Its a threat to the Chicom's interests. They rather have Chicom subjects (i.e. Chinese nationals) invest in high rise apartments.

Also the Chicoms think crypto will help strengthen the dollar such as with stable coin and Bitcoin Reserve owned by the US Treasury, and they believe having large gold reserves will help to reduce the dollar as a reserve currency.
641   AD   2025 Dec 2, 12:12pm  

Opinion: For these big players, investing in bitcoin is all about power
Governments increasingly are using cryptocurrency to gain geopolitical clout and decouple from the dollar

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin-still-has-one-thing-going-for-it-that-investors-are-missing-d2988d9b

....................................................................

Quick Summary:
The MarketWatch article argues that despite volatility and skepticism, Bitcoin’s enduring advantage lies in its scarcity and fixed supply. This unique characteristic continues to differentiate it from other assets and remains underappreciated by many investors.

Key Points from the Article
• Scarcity as Core Value
• Bitcoin’s supply is capped at 21 million coins, making it fundamentally different from fiat currencies that can be printed in unlimited amounts.
• This scarcity is what gives Bitcoin its long-term appeal, especially in times of inflation or monetary expansion.
• Investor Blind Spot
• Many investors focus on short-term price swings, regulatory uncertainty, or competition from other cryptocurrencies.
• The article emphasizes that these concerns often overshadow Bitcoin’s most important feature: its fixed supply.
• Comparison to Other Assets
• Unlike gold, which can still be mined, or fiat currencies, which can be expanded, Bitcoin’s supply is mathematically predetermined.
• This makes it a unique hedge against inflation and monetary policy shifts.
• Market Sentiment
• Current investor sentiment may be cautious due to volatility and macroeconomic factors.
• However, the article suggests that long-term holders recognize Bitcoin’s scarcity as its enduring strength.
• Broader Implications
• Bitcoin’s scarcity could play a larger role in institutional adoption as investors seek assets with predictable supply dynamics.
• The piece implies that this overlooked factor may drive future demand, even if short-term trading remains turbulent.

Why It Matters for You
Given your interest in institutional finance and Bitcoin ETF analysis, this article reinforces the narrative that scarcity—not just price action—is the key driver of Bitcoin’s long-term value. For your Gulf Coast community, where inflation and economic resilience are pressing concerns, highlighting Bitcoin’s fixed supply could help frame discussions about its role as a hedge or alternative store of value.
642   AD   2025 Dec 3, 12:31pm  



643   AD   2025 Dec 4, 12:10pm  

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/04/podcasts/larry-fink-and-brian-armstrong-are-not-worried-about-another-crypto-winter.html

Here’s a concise 4‑bullet summary of the New York Times podcast article featuring Larry Fink (BlackRock) and Brian Armstrong (Coinbase):

• Larry Fink and Brian Armstrong both expressed confidence in crypto’s resilience, arguing that institutional adoption and regulatory clarity are making another “crypto winter” unlikely.
• Fink highlighted BlackRock’s Bitcoin ETF success, noting strong investor demand and positioning crypto as a legitimate asset class alongside traditional investments.
• Armstrong emphasized Coinbase’s role in mainstreaming crypto, pointing to growing retail participation and the integration of blockchain into financial infrastructure.
• Both leaders framed crypto as entering a new maturity phase, where volatility remains but long‑term growth is supported by broader acceptance and global financial integration
645   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2025 Dec 6, 10:16pm  

AD says


https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/04/bitcoin-down-nearly-30percent-from-record-high-history-shows-thats-normal.html


Obviously I could be way wrong but I don't expect any huge drops from here. At least if the reference frame is bitcorn. Maybe it drops to 70 or 50 if we don't have a crazy recession.

But I also don't expect the crazy upside anymore either.

Mostly because of institutional investors replacing retail. If it goes up a lot their 1% will now be 2% so they have to rebalance so they sell. If it drops too much they have to buy more to get back to 1%.

Now if we have a financial crisis then I could see a lot more selling to get cash to cover other positions, because it's still a risk-on asset.

Maybe a good entry point approaching again. :)
646   stfu   2025 Dec 7, 4:08am  

AD says

• Scarcity as Core Value
• Bitcoin’s supply is capped at 21 million coins, making it fundamentally different from fiat currencies that can be printed in unlimited amounts.


I don't bitcoin but Isn't a single bitcoin infinitely divisible? Can't one transfer say, .5 bitcoin or .000000000005 bitcoin or are the smallest transferrable units 1.0?
647   WookieMan   2025 Dec 7, 4:51am  

stfu says

AD says

• Scarcity as Core Value
• Bitcoin’s supply is capped at 21 million coins, making it fundamentally different from fiat currencies that can be printed in unlimited amounts.

I don't bitcoin but Isn't a single bitcoin infinitely divisible? Can't one transfer say, .5 bitcoin or .000000000005 bitcoin or are the smallest transferrable units 1.0?

You are correct. And it's likely a small handful of people who are in direct control of it. They can move the market at will. It's a video game where a few people got a ton of credits when the game came out and stashed them. At some point they will have enough credits/cash and will get bored with it and just stop playing #sellitall.

It's a trading vehicle. Not investment. And I will stick to my guns on this, it will be worthless at some point. Don't be holding the bag. Be awake and watching 24/7 because at some point it will drop way more than 30%. Full panic has yet to hit this realm. It can take a decade or two. Look at housing during the baby boomer housing boom from the late 80's to 2006. Took a while to play out. Thing is you could at least live in a house. What does bitcoin do?

At some point the stripper that got 7 houses will go broke. Don't be the stripper.
648   AD   2025 Dec 7, 11:58am  

WookieMan says

It's a trading vehicle. Not investment. And I will stick to my guns on this,


Holding about 5% of your savings in Bitcoin over the next 30 years is considered smart because it provides diversification, inflation protection, and exposure to one of the best-performing assets of the past decade, while limiting risk by keeping the allocation small.

📈 Key Reasons Why a 5% Bitcoin Allocation Makes Sense
• Scarcity & Supply Cap
Bitcoin’s supply is permanently capped at 21 million coins, making it inherently scarce. Unlike fiat currencies that can be printed indefinitely, Bitcoin’s fixed supply makes it a potential hedge against inflation.
• Historical Performance
Over the past decade, Bitcoin has been the top-performing asset in 8 of 10 years, rising more than 48,000% in value. While past performance doesn’t guarantee future returns, this track record shows its potential as a long-term growth asset.
• Institutional Adoption
Major institutions, pension funds, and even governments (like El Salvador) are now holding Bitcoin as part of their reserves. This growing adoption strengthens its legitimacy as a long-term store of value.
• Diversification Benefits
A small allocation (around 5%) balances risk and reward. If Bitcoin continues to grow, that slice of your portfolio could significantly boost overall returns. If it fails, the limited exposure prevents catastrophic losses.
• Inflation Hedge
Bitcoin is increasingly seen as “digital gold.” With fiat currencies subject to inflationary pressures, Bitcoin offers a decentralized alternative that isn’t tied to government monetary policy.
• Retirement Strategy Shift
Traditional retirement portfolios rely on stocks and bonds. But as financial markets evolve, Bitcoin is being considered a legitimate component of long-term retirement planning.
649   AD   2025 Dec 8, 12:47am  

"This week, Vanguard, the $11 trillion holdout that once declared bitcoin unsuitable for long-term portfolios, listed bitcoin ETFs for sale.

Bank of America now recommends that people allocate about 1-4% of their portfolio to bitcoin.

BlackRock's Larry Fink, who once called bitcoin and digital assets "an index for money laundering," now admits "my thought process has evolved" while managing the world's largest bitcoin ETF holding $70 billion in assets."

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2025-12-05/big-finance-plays-nice

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