patrick.net

HappyGilmore says

Heraclitusstudent says

What service jobs were automated?

anon_3b28c says

Hogwash. How many secretary's and operators were replaced by automated call attendants? How many managers have secretaries now after the computer age?

How many bank tellers have been replaced by ATMs?

How many checkers have been replace by auto-checkout terminals at big box stores?

I could go on and on. Manufacturing, service, you name it. Automation is everywhere.

Tellers have been there for decades, and secretaries are gone only in the sense that bosses have to do directly everything they were doing, i.e. it's a loss of service not automation. So are auto-checkouts, and auto checkins at airlines. Maybe web sites replace calling people but this is a very limited productivity enhancement, and not one that qualifies as a wave of automation.

I'll ask again, if automation is everywhere, then why doesn't it show up in productivity number: very weak in the past decade.

Heraclitusstudent says

I'll ask again, if automation is everywhere, then why doesn't it show up in productivity number: very weak in the past decade.

Should I answer again? Automation has been since the 80s. It followed the typical route of diminishing returns like anything else.

Heraclitusstudent says

Tellers have been there for decades, and secretaries are gone only in the sense that bosses have to do directly everything they were doing, i.e. it's a loss of service not automation. So are auto-checkouts, and auto checkins at airlines. Maybe web sites replace calling people but this is a very limited productivity enhancement, and not one that qualifies as a wave of automation.

Secretaries are gone because technology and automation made it possible for managers to do their jobs. Technology and automation made auto checkins possible. ATMS absolutely automated out the vast majority of tellers. Along with web banking. Not to mention what the Internet did to retail jobs.

HappyGilmore says

Should I answer again? Automation has been since the 80s. It followed the typical route of diminishing returns like anything else.

Ok so you mean there WAS automation, but we now no longer have automation going on?

If this is the case automation is now irrelevant right? Then why are you pointing to automation as the force that keeps wages hammered down NOW?

HappyGilmore says

Technology and automation made auto checkins possible.

Auto-checkins use the same technology as non-auto checkins, the only difference is that you do the job the clerks use to do. This is NOT automation.
The same is true for secretaries. The managers no longer have the convenience to ask someone for a service. They have to do it themselves. If not then tell us specifically which part of a secretary's job is now done automatically: writing a letter? screening incoming calls? Calling a person for a service?

Heraclitusstudent says

Ok so you mean there WAS automation, but we now no longer have automation going on?

No, I've explained it twice now. Look up the law of diminishing returns:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns
Heraclitusstudent says

The managers no longer have the convenience to ask someone for a service. They have to do it themselves. If not then tell us specifically which part of a secretary's job is now done automatically: writing a letter? screening incoming calls? Calling a person for a service?

The technology allows messages to be communicated so much faster and with so much less effort that managers can do it themselves now.

Heraclitusstudent says

I'll ask again, if automation is everywhere, then why doesn't it show up in productivity number: very weak in the past decade.

I’ll give you a great example of productivity. There are about 370 million people living and eating in America. According to labor rolls, about 64% of them work. So that means we have so much being produced that everything available is produced by about half the population. The rest are lawyers. Oddly enough, legal fees count towards production.

Quigley says

There are about 370 million people living and eating in America. According to labor rolls, about 64% of them work. So that means we have so much being produced that everything available is produced by about half the population. The rest are lawyers.

That's why a company like Apple has about 10x more employees outside the US than in the US and we have a large trade deficit.
This has nothing to do with technology. More like semi-slave labor externally through trade in this case, but also internally through immigration.
Everyone else - who isn't a fat cat - aligns with that standard.

HappyGilmore says

No, I've explained it twice now. Look up the law of diminishing returns:

I've already answered this answer: if all we have now are minor enhancements, then why the hell does it still have a large impact on labor? As large as in the past? You're not saying.

Plus you assume technological innovation has stopped, which makes no sense at all.

Heraclitusstudent says

if all we have now are minor enhancements, then why the hell does it still have a large impact on labor? As large as in the past? You're not saying.

First off--I'm not saying minor enhancements. I'm saying that the productivity gains are not as drastic with some of the changes now. They still could be major changes.

But to answer your question, it's because all the large labor displacement in the past hasn't been eaten up yet. Even so, unemployment is down and wages are up.


Heraclitusstudent says

Plus you assume technological innovation has stopped, which makes no sense at all.

I do nothing of the sort. Of course technological innovation continues. You assume that innovation is a straight line, which is ridiculous.