6
0

The Terrible Cost of Obama's Failure in Syria


 invite response                
2018 Apr 8, 1:20pm   13,662 views  46 comments

by MrMagic   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

Four years ago, it almost looked as if chemical attacks on Syrian civilians would stop. “We struck a deal where we got 100 percent of the chemical weapons out,” declared then-Secretary of State John Kerry on Meet the Press in 2014.

But there were two important and deadly loopholes. The first was that Assad did not declare everything—a reality that Kerry acknowledged in a farewell memo to staff, in which he wrote that “unfortunately other undeclared chemical weapons continue to be used ruthlessly against the Syrian people.”

The second was that chlorine gas, which has legitimate civilian uses, was not part of the deal. The Syrian American Medical Society and the White Helmets civil-defense group have documented 200 chemical attacks in Syria since 2012, many involving chlorine.

The deal’s failure to prevent attacks like this was evident even before last April, when sarin gas killed roughly 100 people in the Syrian town of Khan Sheikhoun. By then, Assad’s renewed campaign of chemical attacks, involving the use of chlorine in barrel bombs, was well underway.


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/syria-obama-trump-assad-chemical-douma/557486/

Comments 1 - 40 of 46       Last »     Search these comments

1   Tenpoundbass   2018 Apr 8, 5:17pm  

The Short Cut President. He got all of his accomplishment accolades the first 100 days in office, for doing nothing for the next 8 years.
2   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 8, 5:21pm  

Eh, I'm a little dubious. Trump announces he's pulling out some ground troops (mostly advisers and trainers, about 4000) and the PRESTO! Assad uses chemical weapons.

It's a little too convenient.
3   Tenpoundbass   2018 Apr 8, 5:29pm  

The way to spot a false flag is to see how charges are lobbed against Putin or Assad after an incident. They don't flow through the proper international law channels.
It's just knee jerk reaction. Much like the way our Deepstate and Media collude to create fear and division about Trump. Not supposed to leak information on investigations are stem from serious charges. But because Mueller and his FBI Obama minions don't have fuckall on Trump. Leaking fear is the only game they have.

These things are usually determined after international investigation. And for the last two years or more, the official International body investigations said, it wasn't Russian Gas, it wasn't Assad, it wasn't Putin's nerve agent used in UK on the Russian double agent and his daughter.

These idiots are so transparently stupid. I just wonder how Trump is in communication to let Putin know, he doesn't really think these charges are credible. and knows exactly who did it.

Trump came out and denounced Putin, the Liberals didn't expect that. They needed mid term soundbytes and talking points saying Trump supports genocide in Syria.

It will all come out in the end, that I'm sure of. Just as sure Putin nor Assad had anything to do with this.
4   MrMagic   2018 Apr 8, 6:50pm  

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Assad uses chemical weapons.

It's a little too convenient.


Assad will be getting a MAJOR spanking from Trump in 5, 4, 3, 2......

I hope he has a really good bomb shelter.
5   mell   2018 Apr 8, 8:40pm  

Obummer was a failure since he talked big and didn't follow up. I'd have more respect if he would have refused to intervene in order not to create another arab spring terrorist paradise. I hope Trump talks Assad into a voluntary orderly change with a vetted successor or keeps him in power under certain concessions.
6   Tenpoundbass   2018 Apr 8, 9:08pm  

And speaking of the Russian Poison red flag
They reported the Skripal poison used within hours of it being reported.

https://www.rt.com/news/423481-opcw-head-novichok-doubt/
7   marcus   2018 Apr 8, 9:45pm  

Perhaps Patrick could sell this forum to Brietbart, or the Koch brothers ?
8   MrMagic   2018 Apr 9, 7:21am  

marcus says
Perhaps Patrick could sell this forum to Brietbart, or the Koch brothers ?


Why would they be interested in Obama's failures?
9   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 9:10am  

Tenpoundbass says
And speaking of the Russian Poison red flag
They reported the Skripal poison used within hours of it being reported.


It is actually really easy to determine what was used. Requires 10 minutes after delivering sample to lab. In fact, similar methods are used in airports, where they can determine nearly in real time if someone has been in contact with explosives.

Furthermore, Russians did poison Litvinenko, so this fits their modus operandi.
10   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 9:27am  

drB6 says
Furthermore, Russians did poison Litvinenko, so this fits their modus operandi.


Russians, maybe ... Litvinenko owed a lot of people serious money and blabbed about a lot of Mafiosos in the Press. Not necessarily Putin, but Korleonovitch.

As for this one, he was a British Agent traded to the UK in return for other Russian spies. Doesn't make any sense to kill him if they traded him away, knowing he already passed stuff on and would be talking going forward.
11   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 9:49am  

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Not necessarily Putin, but Korleonovitch.


It is the same - serious mafia is controlled by individuals in state agencies. There are quite interesting photos of Putins close associates in funerals of Leningrad mafia in 1990's. WRT to Skripal, KGB/GRU always go after people who betrayed them.

Edit: and zerohedge, which was quite readable and interesting when it was started, has now degenerated into "Russians good, Israel/US imperialistic and bad" mode. They can not be trusted with respect to anything Russia.
12   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 10:15am  

I don't know what to think, other than the timing of the "Chemical Use" is very suspicious. I can't think of one reason why Assad would use them with ISIS on the run and the US bombing like Crazy and Turkey invading Syria. His family hasn't been dictators for decades by being morons.

I'm not doing the "Putin always perfect. Evil Joos and Saudis bombing poor Assad" thing, but I'm also not dismissing the possibility that the "Deep State" is pulling this BS to force Trump's hand. Especially the timing of it all, with Trump announcing he was going to start pulling our few troops out. Does Assad NOT want the US to withdraw troops and bomb the shit of his forces?

The last time Chems were used, it was very debatable as to who used them. The MSM and Deep State (but I repeat myself) was like "It's Assad, no doubt." The actual investigation showed there was no smoking gun. Noting that ISIS had taken plenty of Syrian Army Depots at the time.
13   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 10:19am  

drB6 says
It is the same - serious mafia is controlled by individuals in state agencies. There are quite interesting photos of Putins close associates in funerals of Leningrad mafia in 1990's. WRT to Skripal, KGB/GRU always go after people who betrayed them.


Yep, but this guy, a British Spy, was traded on purpose for Russian Spies captured in Britain. Why kill a captured agent you traded away years ago? It's not like they were worried he would sing, when he probably sang long ago.

Also, they'd have to know the first thing the Brits are going to do if an ex-Russian Spy is killed, is test for toxic chemicals. I just don't think Assad or the FSB is stupid.

The fact that chemical weapons are alleged in both Syria and in England seems like a "Focus Groups reveal people are really afraid of Chemical Weapons, so..."
14   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 10:21am  

TwoScoopsPlissken says
It's not like they were worried he would sing, when he probably sang long ago.


Revenge for giving out secrets and warning to future possible defectors.
15   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 10:24am  

drB6 says
Vendetta for giving out secrets and warning to future possible defectors.


Doesn't make sense, this guy was deliberately traded to the UK. So they had to expect he'd sing if he hadn't already passed on the info he had to the Brits before his was caught. He's been there for years. It would also put a damper on any other trades from happening.

Also, stupid because of the last guy who was allegedly killed with WMD-like substances.

Story doesn't make sense. We have to believe a long time Family of Dictators and the FSB and Putin are dumb silly bastards, with no ability to think of consequences. Very unlikely. There's also no way they don't know the US and UK are desperate for any excuse for sanctions and anti-Assad bombings.
16   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 10:26am  

TwoScoopsPlissken says
The last time Chems were used, it was very debatable as to who used them. The MSM and Deep State (but I repeat myself) was like "It's Assad, no doubt." The actual investigation showed there was no smoking gun. Noting that ISIS had taken plenty of Syrian Army Depots at the time.

I read Russians who are well-connected with their mercenaries in Syria. They say that there does not exist any chain of command in Assad forces. There are many independent factions which do not take orders from Assad/Iranians/Russians, and chemicals use (at least chlorine used lately) is likely by them. E.i., formally they are supporting Assad, but in reality they are local gangs that fight for influence/money/territory. Timing is of course suspicious, but a reasonable explanation would be that we hear about chemical attacks only when it is useful for outside players (attacks by formally other side are not publicized, and in reality we do not know with whom many factions are associated).
17   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 10:27am  

In general, I do not understand what the hell is US doing in Syria anyway, what is motivation/profit. Just arm Kurds and let them kick everyone's ass. They are not Islamic, and appear to be the only side in this conflict that is sensible.
18   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 10:30am  

I agree.

But given this narrative about the White Helmets, assuming all chem use was Assad, and the wild idea that the FSB used toxic chems a second time after the fall out from the first time, I find to be difficult to believe.

I mean it's like handing the US/UK/Israel/Saudi Arabia valid excuses on a silver platter with a card attached that says "Please bomb me, here is your good reason." Especially two events within days of Trump announcing a partial draw down of US forces.

Here's a possibility: Iran did it (or ordered their proxies to use captured Chems). They have every motive to keep Assad and the Russians fighting with the West and Arabs and Turkey. And if the Americans are "mean" to Assad, then Iran "just needs to reopen nuclear weapons programs in self-defense" since Obama already handed over the Cash.
19   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 10:39am  

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Story doesn't make sense. We have to believe a long time Family of Dictators and the FSB and Putin are dumb silly bastards, with no ability to think of consequences. Very unlikely. There's also no way they don't know the US and UK are desperate for any excuse for sanctions and anti-Assad bombings.


It does look stupid, but then again quality of KGB and GRU has gone downhill since Soviet times, when they were professionals, perhaps best in world.

Poisoning does not make sense also from UK viewpoint - it is easy to find reason for sanctions against Russia, just look at finances of any Putin-connected oligarch, who keeps money in West, and probably does not pay taxes/launders money etc, or talk to Ukrainians - they have multiple Russian servicemen in custody proving Russian involvement there, or Crimea occupation, or carpetbombings in Syria etc. Poisoning was sloppy with emergency personnel also poisoned.

This does not make sense from any viewpoint and I do not know what to think. I would guess the culprits are Russians, but I am not 100% sure these are directly state-controlled Russians. Then again, mafia-bombings in Russia in 1990's were carried out with minimal collateral damage, so this does not really fit their style as well.
20   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 10:41am  

TwoScoopsPlissken says
ordered their proxies to use captured Chems

Possible, and chlorine is widely used for drinking-water treatment, so no need to capture. Every big city will have some of it. Which actually increases likeliness that some small faction can get hold of chlorine and use it.
21   MrMagic   2018 Apr 9, 10:46am  

drB6 says
Possible, and chlorine is widely used for drinking-water treatment, so no need to capture.


Any chance the chlorine was released when a storage depot was bombed and it leaked into the air?

That was a story line used during the last chemical attack, that a rebel held chemical weapons depot was hit and the poison gas escaped and killed the locals.
22   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 10:46am  

Sniper says
storage depot was bombed and it leaked into the air?

Very possible.
23   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 10:47am  

drB6 says
Poisoning does not make sense also from UK viewpoint - it is easy to find reason for sanctions against Russia, just look at finances of any Putin-connected oligarch, who keeps money in West, and probably does not pay taxes/launders money etc, or talk to Ukrainians - they have multiple Russian servicemen in custody proving Russian involvement there, or Crimea occupation, or carpetbombings in Syria etc. Poisoning was sloppy with emergency personnel also poisoned.


Okay, can't resist:

Or a London or DC-connected oligarch, who keeps their money in Caribbean and Jersey Trust accounts, and probably pays no taxes... IE Bezos, Mitt Romney, etc. Who also try to undermine the elected US Government at every turn using their Media Control and Political Influence and NGOs like the Atlantic Council. Also Carlos Slim, Vincente Fuchs, etc.

Oh, Tony Blair, who acts like Mr. Democracy but was on the payroll of Kazakstan for millions as a political adviser.

Well, I'm not a fan of Western Ukrainians for their dedicated love of Nazis and frankly, if you coup the President, you can't complain the region of the country that supported him the most decided to declare independence from the coup regime. There's no way Russia is going to let Ukraine join NATO without consequence, just like there's no way we'd ever let Mexico join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization or Warsaw Pact (if it still existed). If Obregon tried to do so, the CIA would have an impeachable scandal or outright coup in action in no time, and if that didn't do it, there would be at least a low-level insurgency with Blackwater Operatives "advising the democratic rebels against the Obregon regime."
24   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 10:56am  

Interestingly, leader of so-called Donetsk peoples' republic was known in his younger days for being a Nazi, and there was a whole unit of Hitler-glorifying individuals in service of Donetsk peoples republic (Anton Raevskii, Milchakov, and many others; Dugin supports the rebels). Goose-stepping idiots can be equally found on both sides of that conflict.

With respect to Western oligarchs, I do not think they will soil their hands with that kind of stuff. It is much better to buy off a few politicians for few million $ through legal channels, which is a pittance. Remember how Tea party USA was bought off and Ron Paul redistricted out, as he apparently could not be purchased.
25   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:05am  

drB6 says
Interestingly, leader of so-called Donetsk peoples' republic was known in his younger days for being a Nazi, and there was a whole unit of Hitler-glorifying individuals in service of Donetsk peoples republic (Anton Raevskii, Milchakov, and many others; Dugin supports the rebels). Goose-stepping idiots can be equally found on both sides of that conflict.


Not at all equally. To Western Ukrainians, Nazis almost liberated them (in reality, stupid Ukrops would have been first to the gas chambers to free up land for the pure Volk). The Ukrainians have battalions, plural, of Nazi Volunteers covered in Nazi tattoos. They openly celebrate Einsatzgruppen and 14th SS Unit Veterans and even rebury them in Ukrainian Churches from Canada:
www.youtube.com/embed/55LoMZeJlSQ

(This video is from BEFORE the coup)

If you dress as a Nazi in Russia, you will probably get the shit kicked out of you within minutes. I'm sure there's "Edgy" kids in Russia who wear Nazi Gear and take a pic on the internet, but they dare not step outside the house like that.
26   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:08am  

WW2 Veterans are accosted in Ukraine. They fought for the Wrong Side - the Allied Side.


www.youtube.com/embed/dtOmdA5SCiU

Supporting Ukrainian Neo-Nazis and Banderites (who were also fascist, did NOT believe in Democracy but a cadre of Maximum Leaders) shows the depths to which neoliberals will go to advance their agenda, which makes them extremists.
27   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:10am  

In any case, more evidence that old Samuel Huntington was right. He predicted this decades ago in his book, "Clash of Civilizations", noting that Ukraine is a cleft country.

Uniate Catholics vs. Russian Orthodox.
Ukrainian Speaking vs. Russian Speaking.
Nazi Supporting vs. Allied Supporting.
28   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:13am  

Finally, Eastern European old chicks, PLEASE STOP WITH THE RED HAIR.

It only makes you look 30 years older.
29   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:14am  

drB6 says
Revenge for giving out secrets and warning to future possible defectors.


Again, why trade him just to kill him years later? Doesn't make sense.
30   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 11:34am  

Here is a reasonable article about Russian Nazi involvement in conflict: http://newslanc.com/tsukerman-russian-nazi-volunteers-in-donbas/ - Hero of Novorossiya Milchakov is a card carrying Nazi.

There are Nazis in Ukraine (like nearly everywhere else), but most of what you hear about is propaganda. I have been in that country a few times (before the conflict), and it looked and felt like in poor E. European country, and not like in Germany 1933, which is what Russian propaganda tries to portray. Ukrainians were much less hostile towards foreigners than people in Russia proper. Canadian Ukrainians I know nothing about and they might be anti-Russian to the point of being genocidal due to history (Holodomor).

Video #2 that you link is very interesting. Speaker demands that people remove so-called Georgy ribbons. Interestingly, these ribbons were used by Russian Nazi collaborators (Vlasov and Co), and are now widely used in Russia and pro-Russian forces in Ukraine. The last fact makes Ukrainians hostile to the wearers of these ribbons. So, we can say that now Russians officially glorify Nazi collaborator Vlasov with their ribbons.

WRT to hair, the worst is when they use blue on hair...imagine a 60-yr old fat Slavic woman with blue hair who thinks she is still attractive.
31   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:42am  

drB6 says
or Crimea occupation


Missed this. There is no Crimean occupation. It's 90% Ethnic Russian, voted overwhelmingly to leave Ukraine several times in the 90s and 2000s, and was forcibly inserted into Ukraine by the former Chief of Ukrainian SSR, Krushchev. Also consistent voters for pro-Russian parties by a far bigger margin than California goes for Democrats. This time, it took. No way Russia is letting Ukraine get an unsinkable aircraft carrier, either.

If there was any kind of serious resistance in Crimea to being part of Russia again (as it was for centuries until Kruschev unilaterally attached it to Ukraine, probably for spoil distribution of beach front dachas to loyal supporters) it's all you'd hear about. The only resistance to Crimean secession is a handful of Mafia-affiliated Tartar clans who don't even represent 1% of the population, probably in return for a blind eye to smuggling operations in Ukraine. Ironic given the very first act of the Coup Government was to ban all languages, including Tartar, other than Ukrainian - a language only used for everyday purposes in the Western Quarter of Ukraine.

Again, Cleft Country. Split it up.
32   RWSGFY   2018 Apr 9, 11:42am  

Give it up, brother, nobody believes this stale Russian propaganda shit anymore. There is no"Nazis" in Ukraine. The last real one left in 1944.

The only people "supporting Nazis" there are the provocateurs hired by Russians to provide the desired picture for Russian TV. In fact, the "WWII veterans" are also fake: these guys are obviously in their 70s whereas real people who could have fought in WWII should be least 90 y.o. now (if they were conscripted at 16y.o. in 1945, LOL). Nobody in that video looks 90. Heck, not even 80. And for a good reason: there are practically no surviving WWII veterans left there and the very few that still alive can't really run around marching and fist-fighting with "Nazis" - they are bedridden and senile. The life expectancy for males there is 66.3, BTW. Tell me again about hordes of 90-100 y.o. "WWII veterans", ROTFLMAO.

So it's not working for justification of Russian agression against neighboring country, knock it off.
33   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:43am  

drB6 says
Video #2 that you link is very interesting. Speaker demands that people remove so-called Georgy ribbons. Interestingly, these ribbons were used by Russian Nazi collaborators (Vlasov and Co), and are now widely used in Russia and pro-Russian forces in Ukraine. The last fact makes Ukrainians hostile to the wearers of these ribbons. So, we can say that now Russians officially glorify Nazi collaborator Vlasov with their ribbons.


You realize that the Ribbon of Saint George IS the Russian WW2 Victory Ribbon, yes?

I mean literally, that's what Russians wear on May 9th, the day of Victory over the Nazis. It's almost like the Vietnam Service Ribbon, symbolizing that war, but for the Red Army in WW2.

I can't tell you how 180 degrees from reality the Saint George ribbon = Nazi symbol is. It's like saying the VSR is a symbol of Jane Fonda or the Gasden Flag shows support for a Gun Ban.
34   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:48am  

Holy shit, is WIkipedia propaganda. "St George ribbon no significance during USSR." Holy Bullshit, Batman.

The ribbon in question, with its signature orange and black stripes, has been around since the days of the Russian Empire, when it was was introduced as high military honor (The Order of St. George) under Catherine the Great. Its name comes from St. George, the patron saint of many nations, including Russia, whose biggest claim to fame is (according to myth) killing a dragon. In reality, George was born in what is now part of Turkey in the third century A.D., and served as a soldier in the Roman Empire. He was imprisoned, tortured and eventually beheaded for protesting against Rome's treatment of Christians.

While the Order of St. George itself ended with the Russian Revolution, over the years, the orange and black stripes, said to represent gunpowder and fire, became associated with Russian military valor. The stripes became a true national symbol after World War II, when they adorned many of the highest honors given out by the Soviet state. In 1992, the Order of St. George was reinstated in a moment of post-Soviet nationalist pride, and in 2005, on the 60th anniversary of Victory Day, the ribbon was handed out on the streets in Russia, bringing the symbol back to the forefront of many citizens' minds. Every year on Victory Day (May 9) they reappear.

The ribbon has been spotted repeatedly on pro-Russian separatists since Ukraine's crisis began – as the Associated Press put it, it's become a "ubiquitous" sight as protests have progressed in places like Crimea, Donetsk and Odessa – and in Russia's State Duma, politicians have taken to pinning the ribbons to their lapels as a sign of support. The ribbon hasn't always been met with a positive response: The Christian Science Monitor's Anna Kordunsky reports that some Ukrainians had begun calling it the “Colorado ribbon,” named after a bug that infests potato fields and has similar coloring. "At least one Maidan activist has made a show of burning three ribbons in the eternal flame in Odessa," Kordunksy wrote last month.

To those who wear the ribbon, it's a sign of Russia's proud military history, and in particular the grueling victory over Nazi Germany and the millions of Soviet troops who died in that effort, many of them Ukrainians. But for those angered by the ribbons, they're a sign of something else: Russian empire and Soviet domination. That's a history many believe President Vladimir Putin would like to return to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/05/05/this-is-the-ribbon-that-ukrainian-nationalists-want-outlawed/?utm_term=.5d6edc6e72d8
35   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:51am  

"Only" a million of these were handed out, which were basically the Soviet Equivalent of Bronze and Silver Stars for NCOs' bravery in combat.


Sheesh.

"It's all a Putin Invention!"
36   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 11:55am  



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_the_Soviet_Union

"Only" ~15M of these handed out by the USSR for participation in the Great Patriotic War (aka WW2).

Man, Ukrops propaganda sucks. They hate the Saint George Ribbon because it marked the defeat of their big brother Hitler .
37   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 12:03pm  

drB6 says
Here is a reasonable article about Russian Nazi involvement in conflict: http://newslanc.com/tsukerman-russian-nazi-volunteers-in-donbas/ - Hero of Novorossiya Milchakov is a card carrying Nazi.

This is basically Field's blog.

Fields also spends his fortune to publish this anti-Orban pro-EUrocrat rag:
https://budapestbeacon.com

He's clearly an Atlanticist/Neoliberal as are the peeps that write for his personal mag.

This "Combat Brotherhood" maybe ultra nationalist, but they sure as shit ain't Nazis. Given they're posing under a WW2 Soviet Victory Flag.
38   Bd6r   2018 Apr 9, 12:31pm  

TwoScoopsPlissken says
They hate the Saint George Ribbon because it marked the defeat of their big brother Hitler .


Or because Russians attacked Ukraine under similar colors.

TwoScoopsPlissken says
This "Combat Brotherhood" maybe ultra nationalist, but they sure as shit ain't Nazis. Given they're posing under a WW2 Soviet Victory Flag.


What about Milchakov and his Adolf tattoos and parading with a Nazi flag, who was leader in Novorossiya army? It is possible somehow (I have seen it many times) for a Russian to glorify Adolf and Stalin at the same time.



TwoScoopsPlissken says
Fields also spends his fortune to publish this anti-Orban pro-EUrocrat rag:
https://budapestbeacon.com

He's clearly an Atlanticist/Neoliberal as are the peeps that write for his personal mag.


Does not necessarily means that he is wrong with everything. The pictures he gives there are all over Russian internet.

WRT to Georgian ribbon - the Soviet version has (slightly) different color, and, I believe was called "guards ribbon", while Vlasov/WWI version was called Georgian ribbon, which is what the current version is called.

https://nashdom.us/home/sootechestvenniki/compatriots/georgievskaja-lentochka---znak-soldat-roa-vlasova

Edit: might need to somehow warn people that last picture her is pretty disturbing. A link would be better, but I do not know how to get it not to show up.
39   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Apr 9, 12:53pm  

drB6 says
WRT to Georgian ribbon - the Soviet version has (slightly) different color, and, I believe was called "guards ribbon", while Vlasov/WWI version was called Georgian ribbon, which is what the current version is called.


It's based on the Tsarist Medal. Common knowledge that Stalin dusted off some old fashioned Russian and Orthodox Patriotism during WW2.

As for that kid, there's one pic of him holding up a Nazi Battle Flag, it could be a "Look at my war spoils" pic. The raised fist is NOT a Fascist Salute.

This is a Fascist Salute:

(Note Swastika tattoo on arm not to mention Totenkopf, the death's head, another SS Symbol)

And the Wulfangel and the Black Sun are SS Images, frequently used by Euronazis to get around the Swastika ban:


And McCain with Svoboda Leader:


It's also indisputable that Bandera was funded by the Nazis, armed by the Nazis, and that 100,000s of Ukrainians served with the Einsatzgruppen and as Hiwis with the Wehrmacht. Vlasov, on the other hand, had POWs who basically had a choice between execution and fighting the Soviet Union. Big difference between eager Ukrainians (and Lithuanians) proudly volunteering for the Nazis, with the added bonus of being able to butcher their hated Polish and Jewish populations, and POWs given a stark choice of Fight or Death.
40   Tenpoundbass   2018 Apr 9, 1:04pm  

And the Euro Block Antifa said or did nothing?

Yeah we're that stupid.

Comments 1 - 40 of 46       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions