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The great exodus out of America’s blue cities

By Patrick following x   2018 Apr 25, 11:59am 1,638 views   33 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/384536-the-great-exodus-out-of-americas-blue-cities

With between up to 50 percent of their paycheck going to a combination of federal, local and city taxes, not including other consumer taxes baked into every aspect of their consumer practices, residents don’t even have the comfort of knowing that their tax expenditures are going to the improvement of their lives in the city. New York infamously misuses the hard-earned tax revenues of its citizens in ways that scarcely benefit them.

Eventually, city and state taxes, fees, and regulations become so burdensome that people and corporations jump ship. More people are currently fleeing New York than any other metropolitan area in the nation. More than 1 million people have moved out of New York City since 2010 in search of greener pastures, which amounts to a negative net migration rate of 4.4 percent.
1   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 25, 12:12pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        



Unfortunately, when these folks move to low-cost low-tax areas, they overpay for homes that are "cheap" relative to the place they left, and support left wing politicos similar to those who fouled the place they ran from.
2   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 25, 12:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Eventually, city and state taxes, fees, and regulations become so burdensome that people and corporations jump ship.

That's BS.
"taxes, fees, and regulations" are ok.
Real-estate prices are the killer.
3   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2018 Apr 25, 12:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Here's your solution for the "housing crisis".
5   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 25, 12:26pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says
Patrick says
Eventually, city and state taxes, fees, and regulations become so burdensome that people and corporations jump ship.

That's BS.
"taxes, fees, and regulations" are ok.
Real-estate prices are the killer.


You haven't lived in SF then. Where you get a $100 ticket for being one minute late on your meter while a hob is shitting next to your car and gets no ticket. Regulations and fees galore, it's not just the house prices.
6   HEYYOU   ignore (16)   2018 Apr 25, 1:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
Where you get a $100 ticket for being one minute late on your meter while a hob is shitting next to your car and gets no ticket.


It was somebody's elses fault for parking your? car there?
7   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 25, 1:12pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HEYYOU says
mell says
Where you get a $100 ticket for being one minute late on your meter while a hob is shitting next to your car and gets no ticket.


It was somebody's elses fault for parking your? car there?


Wasn't my car, I was walking by. DPT literally preys on productive citizens for inches and minutes. A city that charges productive citizens exorbitant amounts to run their daily lives while letting hobos shit on their property and let them off scot-free is an abomination. Time to prosecute all the corrupt leftist officials and bring somebody like Giuliani in to clean up this otherwise naturally beautiful city.
8   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2018 Apr 25, 1:19pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
You haven't lived in SF then. Where you get a $100 ticket for being one minute late


One minute? LOL! How about the meter turning red while you're pulling away from the curb and the fucking parking monkey who observes it from a block away goes ahead and issues the fucking ticket as if your car was still there? Via fucking mail. "But don't they have to put a VIN number into the ticket?" sez you? Nope, they get away with it by putting "vehicle too high to read VIN" into the field.
9   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 25, 1:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/384536-the-great-exodus-out-of-americas-blue-cities


In fact, in 2016 the Golden State lost almost 143,000 net residents to other states
A whopping .3%. ROFLOL.

Patrick says
More than 1 million people have moved out of New York City since 2010 in search of greener pastures, which amounts to a negative net migration rate of 4.4 percent.


Huh? Population NYC 2010 8.1M 2017 8.5 million. How is a 400,000 gain in population a net 4.4% negative. I will never master right wing math.
10   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 25, 1:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Satoshi_Nakamoto says
mell says
You haven't lived in SF then. Where you get a $100 ticket for being one minute late


One minute? LOL! How about the meter turning red while you're pulling away from the curb and the fucking parking monkey who observes it from a block away goes ahead and issues the fucking ticket as if your car was still there? Via fucking mail. "But don't they have to put a VIN number into the ticket?" sez you? Nope, they get away with it by putting "vehicle too high to read VIN" into the field.


Yeah that's worse. They never put the VIN in here - and there's much more going on. 20% of the meters are defect - or defecated on - one way or the other but it's your responsibility if you get a ticket. Also construction companies and local residents pay for a very limited space to be blocked off for construction (since it's so fucking expensive) but then print more tow-away signs and use cones to block off double the area to park their cars and will tow you even if you park at a legit spot. You as the taxpayer have zero rights in SF, They close streets at will and lock you out of 100 possible parking spots even though they have no permits for it. Unless you're a hobo or have corrupt connections to the corrupted city officials you will pay through the nose. Potholes run so deep people buy new cars and don't drive them, or only on select streets. Fucking disgrace while commissioners make big pensions.
11   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 25, 3:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
You haven't lived in SF then. Where you get a $100 ticket for being one minute late on your meter while a hob is shitting next to your car and gets no ticket. Regulations and fees galore, it's not just the house prices.

If you pay $2 millions for an apt in SF, you ought not to care about a $100 ticket.
12   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 25, 4:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says
mell says
You haven't lived in SF then. Where you get a $100 ticket for being one minute late on your meter while a hob is shitting next to your car and gets no ticket. Regulations and fees galore, it's not just the house prices.

If you pay $2 millions for an apt in SF, you ought not to care about a $100 ticket.


Maybe so, but after paying $2MM you have no money for a $100 ticket, you need everything for the mortgage.
13   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2018 Apr 25, 4:12pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says
mell says
You haven't lived in SF then. Where you get a $100 ticket for being one minute late on your meter while a hob is shitting next to your car and gets no ticket. Regulations and fees galore, it's not just the house prices.

If you pay $2 millions for an apt in SF, you ought not to care about a $100 ticket.


For some reason this kind of petty crap does get under your skin even if the sums are trivial in the grand scheme of things.
14   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 25, 4:48pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Satoshi_Nakamoto says
Heraclitusstudent says
mell says
You haven't lived in SF then. Where you get a $100 ticket for being one minute late on your meter while a hob is shitting next to your car and gets no ticket. Regulations and fees galore, it's not just the house prices.

If you pay $2 millions for an apt in SF, you ought not to care about a $100 ticket.


For some reason this kind of petty crap does get under your skin even if the sums are trivial in the grand scheme of things.


The issue is more that you're clearly being taken to the cleaners by the leftist corrupt SF government officials. If you paid $100 tickets and the streets look like you can eat from the ground and everything is well kept and kempt then not many would have a problem with hefty tickets. But it's literally the opposite. Your $100 go directly into the pockets of massively overpaid corrupt municipal government workers while they let the streets literally go to shit.
15   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 25, 5:52pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

NY and CA has a lot of people, government doesn't particularly cares about anyone here, they just treat us like their fucking tax paying slaves, as if our only reason for existence is to pay taxes to the mighty maggots running our state government.
16   indc   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 25, 6:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Patrick says
More than 1 million people have moved out of New York City since 2010 in search of greener pastures, which amounts to a negative net migration rate of 4.4 percent.


Huh? Population NYC 2010 8.1M 2017 8.5 million. How is a 400,000 gain in population a net 4.4% negative. I will never master right wing math.


In 8 years they expect the population of city to grow at same pace as rest of the country. And I think 400,000 gain is less growth compared to whole country.
17   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 25, 6:54pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

indc says
bob2356 says
Patrick says
More than 1 million people have moved out of New York City since 2010 in search of greener pastures, which amounts to a negative net migration rate of 4.4 percent.


Huh? Population NYC 2010 8.1M 2017 8.5 million. How is a 400,000 gain in population a net 4.4% negative. I will never master right wing math.


In 8 years they expect the population of city to grow at same pace as rest of the country. And I think 400,000 gain is less growth compared to whole country.


WTF, look at the first sentence. It says moved out. Not less than expected moved in. Net negative is pretty damn hard to define any way but population reduction..

More is less.
Obedience is freedom.
War is peace.

Newspeak lives.
18   TrumpingTits   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 25, 8:42pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
Unfortunately, when these folks move to low-cost low-tax areas, they overpay for homes that are "cheap" relative to the place they left, and support left wing politicos similar to those who fouled the place they ran from.


Yes. They are like the Pollutians in Bill Peet's The Wump World. They ruin a planet, then go find another. Never wondering why they have to keep doing so.

19   clambo   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 4:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

In the case of NYC, the American long term residents may be moving to Florida. The influx to Florida from New York, New Jersey and CT is amazing.

If there's a net influx into NYC it's because of foreigners moving in to replace the Americans. I believe NYC residents are 43% foreign born today.

One example of exodus from NYC was my father. I looked at his finances and he was able to save $1500/month just by changing his residence to Florida.

If you don't think people on a fixed income will relocate for $1500/month think again. The weather is also nice for 8.5 months per year .
20   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 7:18am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
One example of exodus from NYC was my father. I looked at his finances and he was able to save $1500/month just by changing his residence to Florida.

If you don't think people on a fixed income will relocate for $1500/month think again. The weather is also nice for 8.5 months per year .


I believe you, but what areas (financially) are the gains coming from? Cheaper housing? No state income tax? Property taxes? $18k is a nice chunk of money to save by just moving. Again, not disputing the claim, just interested to hear reasons why people leave certain areas of the country for other areas.

IL I believe is a weird state where retirement funds don't get taxed (pensions or 401K) even if you continue to live in the state. So income tax isn't a factor here to leave for retirees. But a TON of people still move from IL to FL. It's probably running from property taxes for IL people and then the weather 2nd.
21   clambo   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 7:34am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

To answer above, the gains are several that come to mind. Not all will apply in all cases.

1. Taxes. Saving money attracts people.
2. Cheaper housing. My father sold his house and could have bought two houses in Florida in an outstanding area with the proceeds.
3. Cheaper energy. For some reason, FPL (Florida Power and Light) is efficiently operated and not expensive. Example: 1300 square foot apartment with AC on all day, 80F outside, 75F inside, two people TVs, washer dryer, April bill=$58.
4. Cheaper everything. I bought something on Warlmart.com It used my Santa Cruz zip code and the tax was $21. I changed it to FL ZipCode and the tax was $11. Gasoline is at least $1 cheaper than California.
5. Cheap and abundant restaurants.
6. Warm weather, nice 8.5 months per year. My father probably spent $500/month heating his house in NYC burning heating oil in the furnace.
7. Newer low density housing developments. In some areas there were no buildings 30 years ago, so the streets are wide, the areas devoted largely to residences, golf courses, etc. so it can be comfortable surroundings. Example: I live about a mile from Trump Jupiter and Frenchman's Creek, both expensive clubs with houses. The road that passes by them (Donald Ross Blvd) is an amazing 3 lanes in each direction, although there is very little traffic. It's easy driving. Comparison: Santa Cruz CA to Monterey CA Hwy. 1 is 1 lane in each direction in places.
8. Beach parking is free and abundant.
9. Locals may cater to those on fixed incomes or retired. The economy basing itself on retired tends to attract them.
10. My location has extremely low crime and abundant police.
11. Tons and tons of doctors.
12. Somewhat laid back pace.
My main complaint about Florida is I am not quite ready to feel old so I feel out of place sometimes.
22   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 7:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
My main complaint about Florida is I am not quite ready to feel old so I feel out of place sometimes.


Jesus, thanks for the detailed analysis. Seriously.

Out of place is an understatement in parts of FL. We did Disney for a few days back in January, but took the kids out of school for it (and FL kids were in school). We were flying out of Tampa and wanted a wind down day after walking like 15 miles a day at Disney, so we stayed in the Treasure Island area.

Holy. Shit. The amount of stink eye we got when brining our kids into establishments (breakfast & dinner specifically) was astounding. Lol, those retirees fucking moved down there to NOT see kids and it was so obvious. My kids are seriously very well behaved, but people were just fucking staring at us the whole time we ate (we're white in case that's a question knowing how FL can be in some parts....)

While the area was nice, I'm not sure I'd go back to that area given the retiree crowd, at least with kids again. Also the beach quite frankly sucked there. I'm a panhandle FL guy and that was some shitty sand along the coast there.
23   HEYYOU   ignore (16)   2018 Apr 27, 8:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says

Wasn't my car, I was walking by. DPT literally preys on productive citizens for inches and minutes. A city that charges productive citizens exorbitant amounts to run their daily lives while letting hobos shit on their property and let them off scot-free is an abomination. Time to prosecute all the corrupt leftist officials and bring somebody like Giuliani in to clean up this otherwise naturally beautiful city.



It's still somebody's elses fault because I can't follow the rules when I park at a metered space.
Fucking Obama & Clinton! Any fine is their fault!
I'm an American,I only follow the rules I agree with.

I'll not release my tax return.
Fuck God Damn Republicans & their tax INCREASE.
Mother fucking Redistribution Socialists!
24   P N Dr Lo R   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 8:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
I'm a panhandle FL guy
How far are you from Chipley?
25   P N Dr Lo R   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 8:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
11. Tons and tons of doctors
Probably lots of undertakers too?
26   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 8:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

P N Dr Lo R says
WookieMan says
I'm a panhandle FL guy
How far are you from Chipley?


Sorry, should have been more clear on my end. That's where I prefer to vacation in FL. Don't live there. Mainly go to Navarre beach. Just did Pensacola beach for spring break a couple weeks back. Have done 2-3 years at St. George Island as well. And Panama City Beach which is about the closest I've been to Chipley. Although I just realized we have been close by when driving to St. George.

Been going to that area for about a week or two every year since I was basically born. While it's a week at a time, I've spent about a year of my life there. So outside of being a full time resident or snowbird, I'm pretty familiar with the area. Born and raised in IL, but love that area for sure. Best sand in the world from my experience.
27   Philistine   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 8:42am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
If you paid $100 tickets and the streets look like you can eat from the ground and everything is well kept and kempt then not many would have a problem with hefty tickets. But it's literally the opposite.

So true. I find there is an inverse relationship between how punitive the fine is versus how shitty the roads are.

In LA, I got a red light camera ticket in the mail for $480. Not even issued by a cop, and full presumption of guilt and my own burden to prove innocence based on a blurry black and white photo. About 60% of LA's streets are potholes and uneven pavement.

In Brooklyn, my car (I had a road sales job--before you impale me for having a car in NYC) was forcibly towed and the parking "officer" actually lied about the address where I was parked so they could extort a ticket and tow. Cost was $750 after tow, impound, and ticket. The roads in Brooklyn are not even paved, just a lose layer of rubble, trash, and war zone debris.
28   Philistine   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 8:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

P N Dr Lo R says
How far are you from Chipley?

Small world. I grew up in Pensacola, and my family are from Chumuckla and Ft. Walton beach. We also lived variously in Gulf Breeze, Navarre, and Milton.
29   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 10:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

In LA, I got a red light camera ticket in the mail for $480.

Damn, $480! I got a red light ticket a couple a weeks ago, it was only $50. Pay promptly and no points or record. This was in red just turned blue Virginia.
30   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2018 Apr 27, 10:25am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Philistine says
In LA, I got a red light camera ticket in the mail for $480. Not even issued by a cop, and full presumption of guilt and my own burden to prove innocence based on a blurry black and white photo.


I always ignored these. So far 100% success - they never follow up after an initial letter.
31   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 10:26am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says

Eventually, city and state taxes, fees, and regulations become so burdensome that people and corporations jump ship. More people are currently fleeing New York than any other metropolitan area in the nation. More than 1 million people have moved out of New York City since 2010 in search of greener pastures


Ppl are leaving NYC because the Metro sucks and rental costs are through the roof.

Regular ppl don't all work as media executives, Hollywood stars, or senior investment bankers. Even the non-partner lawyers for the Big 100 live in studio apartments.

Historically, places like SoHo, etc, were for artists and other Bohemian types and today, not only can they not live in SoHo but they're even priced out of Williamsburg Brooklyn where many artists are trust fund babies.
32   Philistine   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 10:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Satoshi_Nakamoto says
I always ignored these. So far 100% success -

Yep. There were even articles in the LA Times actually advising people not to pay these. Turns out that a private party in bed with the city for $$$ contracts wasn't enforceable as a law enforcement agency and the stupid blood sucking liberals running the govt couldn't get paid on these tickets. One of the rare instances where the people prevailed--and in a solid blue locale, no less.
33   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 28, 9:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

A lot of this seems related to people from high income cities retiring to Florida & Arizona.




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