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Expensive cities simply need MUCH MORE housing

By Patrick following x   2018 Apr 26, 4:54pm 779 views   17 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


https://www.vox.com/2018/4/20/17255362/sb-827-affordable-housing-supply-california

There’s simply no good alternative to increasing the quantity of dwellings available in the expensive parts of expensive metropolitan areas. Whether that’s done purely by re-legalizing market-rate construction, by reviving public housing, or with a mixed strategy like inclusionary zoning, there’s no getting around the fact that the raw number of units and their location matters a lot.

When America had a primarily agricultural economy, giving ordinary people access to arable farmland was a key driver of economic opportunity. Now that we have a primarily services-based economy, giving ordinary people access to prosperous cities is a key driver. If we don’t do it, people will still find a place to live, but their life prospects will be permanently the worse for it.
1   glass.torch   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 28, 8:36pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Wrong. This is how we end up in a 2008 scenario again. This is the shit I'm hearing at my job and it is down right devious (I am a city planner). Claw back the rentals sold to black rock for pennies on the dollar which were used to raise rents and ultimately home prices. There are plenty of homes... they are in the wrong hands. I remember Patrick.net posting articles on banks and cities wanting to bulldoze homes just a few years ago. Did we start multiplying like rabbits? What was done was to prevent homes from reaching support in the market. So now homes are over priced, again. Economy suffers because percentage of income people pay every month for housing prevents people from going out to have fun (or have kids- we need more homes for kid-less millennials?) unless they use credit. In 80% of cities home appreciation is twice that of income raises. That's sustainable.... in dumbassville.
2   tovarichpeter   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 29, 12:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Exactly. It’s called supply and demand.
3   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 29, 12:39pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

glass.torch says
Claw back the rentals sold to black rock for pennies on the dollar which were used to raise rents and ultimately home prices.

Good luck turning USA into Venezuela.

glass.torch says
There are plenty of homes... they are in the wrong hands. I remember Patrick.net posting articles on banks and cities wanting to bulldoze homes just a few years ago. Did we start multiplying like rabbits? What was done was to prevent homes from reaching support in the market.

We stopped building new homes while population continued to increase by 3 million every year. That's what happened. That's what led to higher prices and rents. It's called a shortage.

glass.torch says
In 80% of cities home appreciation is twice that of income raises. That's sustainable.... in dumbassville.

LOL. California must be "dumbassville" because that is what happened here for the last 50 years.
4   justme   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 29, 12:47pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I agree with part of Patrick and part of glass torch. After the 2008 crash, about 7% of the housing stock changed hands from owner-occupant to landlord/corporate/hedge-fund. The homeownership rate dropped from ~70% to ~63%. Yes, this was a huge problem. But in certain cities like SF and SJ, there is an absolute need for building inexpensive highrises near transit corridors and employers. And, yes, bulldozing homes to decrease supply and increase prices is completely perverse.
5   CBOEtrader   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 29, 12:47pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Why are homes in SF mostly 2 stories? If a 200 sqft studio costs $3000/month, tear those old homes down and build some highrise units. Problem solved.
6   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 29, 1:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Agree with both. This has nothing to do with Venezuela since it was socialism in the first place selling those properties for pennies on the dollar with guaranteed taxpayer backstop. Clawing those back would right a wrong. Building more units helps as well.
7   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 29, 1:31pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

CBOEtrader says
Why are homes in SF mostly 2 stories? If a 200 sqft studio costs $3000/month, tear those old homes down and build some highrise units. Problem solved.


Correct. Mostly due to nimbyism. What's worse many of these old homes are rotten and rodent infested.
8   tovarichpeter   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 29, 7:35pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

No growth caused the single family suburban sprawl which ruined the Bay Area.
9   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 29, 8:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
There’s simply no good alternative to increasing the quantity of dwellings available in the expensive parts of expensive metropolitan areas. Whether that’s done purely by re-legalizing market-rate construction, by reviving public housing, or with a mixed strategy like inclusionary zoning, there’s no getting around the fact that the raw number of units and their location matters a lot.


Something to ponder. We're a country with "Supersize" everything, Cosco quantity items, we believe that bigger is better and the more the merrier.

The ONLY area of commerce we're told that "More is Worse" is Housing. Why is that?
10   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 1, 10:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The problem with the above hypothesis is it assumes people WANT to live in cities. As I grow older I can definitively say that cities are unhealthy, unnatural places to live in. The stress from the crowds and constant noise are not something anyone enjoys. The pollution, air and otherwise, is certainly not a boon to anyone's quality of life. And when does income by itself determine prosperity? What about income to expense ratio?

There's a reason we have a record number of new farmers coming from a young group of people with no prior farm experience. Centralization had it's time, it's made people miserable, reduced the quality of life in years and diseases/pollution, and turned focus on profits over enjoyment. Fuck cities, fuck expansion. The day I start homesteading in New Zealand is the day my life gets better, not the day 1,000 new condos are built where the view of the outdoors is looking directly across to the neighbors window.
11   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 May 1, 11:01am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
The ONLY area of commerce we're told that "More is Worse" is Housing. Why is that?


Not sure I've ever seen anyone say this? Where are you seeing it?
12   Aphroman   ignore (5)   2018 May 1, 11:44am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Half of the U.S. population lives in the blue counties. Food for thought when someone says that we’re suffering of overpopulation




http://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-the-united-states-lives-in-these-counties-2013-9
13   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (3)   2018 May 1, 11:51am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
Half of the U.S. population lives in the blue counties. Food for thought when someone says that we’re suffering of overpopulation


Overpopulation is local. We'are definitely suffering from it in LA metro and SFBA.

We need to develop rest of the state/country more evenly, not try to pile everyone on top of each other on 3 sq. mile around Salesforce tower.
14   Aphroman   ignore (5)   2018 May 1, 1:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

100 most populous counties

Orange 1 million +
Green is less than 1 million

15   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 May 1, 1:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

LeonDurham says
Not sure I've ever seen anyone say this? Where are you seeing it?


There are comments in this very thread.
16   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 May 1, 1:25pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

glass.torch says
Wrong. This is how we end up in a 2008 scenario again. This is the shit I'm hearing at my job and it is down right devious (I am a city planner). Claw back the rentals sold to black rock for pennies on the dollar which were used to raise rents and ultimately home prices. There are plenty of homes... they are in the wrong hands.

What does it mean the wrong hands? Are you claiming that black rock is not renting their units? To the wrong people?
You are not making any sense for a city planner.

glass.torch says
Did we start multiplying like rabbits?

Yes absolutely. The population of the US increased by like 40 millions since 2000. The equivalent of an added CA.
If you don't know that you have no business planning cities.
17   RecentCost   ignore (0)   2018 May 1, 2:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Local governments love to piss and moan about affordable housing but they are a major contributor to this problem. All of the added permits and fees force real estate developers to target high-end housing projects so they can make enough profit. In southern California local governments add fees of ~$150,000 per unit. The government extorts money from real estate developers and then complains when the developers have to add these costs to their housing.

Get out of the way and let the free market do its thing.




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