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Fall of the American Empire

By marcus following x   2018 Jun 18, 8:42pm 1,952 views   14 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    

I couldn't agree more.



But what does American goodness — all too often honored in the breach, but still real — have to do with American power, let alone world trade? The answer is that for 70 years, American goodness and American greatness went hand in hand. Our ideals, and the fact that other countries knew we held those ideals, made us a different kind of great power, one that inspired trust.

Think about it. By the end of World War II, we and our British allies had in effect conquered a large part of the world. We could have become permanent occupiers, and/or installed subservient puppet governments, the way the Soviet Union did in Eastern Europe. And yes, we did do that in some developing countries; our history with, say, Iran is not at all pretty.

But what we mainly did instead was help defeated enemies get back on their feet, establishing democratic regimes that shared our core values and became allies in protecting those values.

The Pax Americana was a sort of empire; certainly America was for a long time very much first among equals. But it was by historical standards a remarkably benign empire, held together by soft power and respect rather than force. (There are actually some parallels with the ancient Pax Romana, but that’s another story.)

And while you might be tempted to view international trade deals, which Trump says have turned us into a “piggy bank that everyone else is robbing,” as a completely separate story, they are anything but. Trade agreements were meant to (and did) make America richer, but they were also, from the beginning, about more than dollars and cents.

In fact, the modern world trading system was largely the brainchild not of economists or business interests, but of Cordell Hull, F.D.R.’s long-serving secretary of state, who believed that “prosperous trade among nations” was an essential element in building an “enduring peace.” So you want to think of the postwar creation of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade as part of the same strategy that more or less simultaneously gave rise to the Marshall Plan and the creation of NATO.

So all the things happening now are of a piece. Committing atrocities at the border, attacking the domestic rule of law, insulting democratic leaders while praising thugs, and breaking up trade agreements are all about ending American exceptionalism, turning our back on the ideals that made us different from other powerful nations.

And rejecting our ideals won’t make us stronger; it will make us weaker. We were the leader of the free world, a moral as well as financial and military force. But we’re throwing all that away.

What’s more, it won’t even serve our self-interest. America isn’t nearly as dominant a power as it was 70 years ago; Trump is delusional if he thinks that other countries will back down in the face of his threats. And if we are heading for a full-blown trade war, which seems increasingly likely, both he and those who voted for him will be shocked at how it goes: Some industries will gain, but millions of workers will be displaced.

So Trump isn’t making America great again; he’s trashing the things that made us great, turning us into just another bully — one whose bullying will be far less effective than he imagines.
1   marcus   ignore (10)   2018 Jun 18, 8:47pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I guess one could argue that it's a long term game of good cop bad cop. The next few Presidents will get a lot of mileage out of asserting to the world that Americans are not the assholes that Trump made us out to be.
2   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jun 18, 8:50pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ha Ha Ha... Krugman....

How many times does that guy need to be wrong before the NYT stops posting his BS?
3   marcus   ignore (10)   2018 Jun 18, 9:03pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Sniper says
Ha Ha Ha... Krugman....

Great analysis of his thesis

Very impressive, the way you tear apart each of his points.
4   bob2356   ignore (4)   2018 Jun 18, 9:20pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

Great analysis of his thesis

Very impressive, the way you tear apart each of his points.

It is a very scholarly extensive well documented and researched rebuttal.
5   HEYYOU   ignore (31)   2018 Jun 18, 9:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If there's problem just elect a Republican or Democrat.
6   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jun 18, 9:33pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says
Sniper says
Ha Ha Ha... Krugman....

Great analysis of his thesis


BTW, has the stock market melted down yet with Trump getting elected, just like Krugman predicted?

Keep listening to Krugman's words of wisdom and economic suggestions, maybe you'll be able to retire by the time your 80.
7   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2018 Jun 19, 6:18am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Fall of the Liberal looneys the Ameircan empire has never been stronger. The rest of the world wants to be like us again.
Conservative, Nationalists, and making Liberal pukes cry worldwide no matter where we find them. And we all can thank Putin for that.
The last Man standing from 2012 through 2016.
8   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Jun 19, 6:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Sniper says
How many times does that guy need to be wrong before the NYT stops posting his BS?

Look at Thomas Friedman.
9   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2018 Jun 19, 6:40am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says
Sniper says
Ha Ha Ha... Krugman....

Great analysis of his thesis

Very impressive, the way you tear apart each of his points.

So wait...you copy and paste a opinion piece(by a guy who places fast and loose with his interpretation of things), but you expect others to research and post counter arguments in a time consuming process?
10   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2018 Jun 19, 6:44am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says

More like Foreign Nationalists amirite?

For supposed ‘Nationalists’, Chumpublicans sure seem to spend all their time meddling in foreign countries while leaving Americans to rot.

Liberals blame everyone but themselves. They say there's no diversity in Tech and Science, that is really a reflection on the Liberal education institution.
Rather than correct their failures they demand everyone embrace and hire inferior workers who's education was squandered on Gender and Racial identity politics.

It doesn't take much to deduce that people have figured that out, and realize if we stay that course, Liberals will have their Idiocracy optics they blame competent producers for.
11   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2018 Jun 19, 6:45am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Here ya go Marcus

Please review and post a well researched rebuttal. I’m sure you don’t agree with Mr. Shapiro.

And no copying and pasting you silly goose.
12   marcus   ignore (10)   2018 Jun 19, 6:51am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CovfefeButDeadly says
Please review and post a well researched rebuttal.

What part of the editorial I linked is this a rebuttal to ? The one phrase about atrocities at the border ?

Couldn't read it could ya. Has to assume it was about something it mostly isn't.
13   MrBark   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 19, 8:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CovfefeButDeadly says
And no copying and pasting you silly goose.

Yeah why discuss anything when you can just paste a link to a video instead.

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