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AMLO won in Mexico

By clambo following x   2018 Jul 1, 7:17pm 3,057 views   18 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


The guys from the PRI and PAN parties both have conceded.

The last I saw, Lopez Obrador had 49%, PRI and PAN guys both around 25%.

My Mexican friends are a mixed group and have different ideas.

Those who 1. grew up very poor then became teachers love AMLO. I know several of these.
Those who 2. voted PRI but thought the PRI party is too corrupt and they hate PAN voted for AMLO. They also said that AMLO was like Mexico's Trump.
Those who 3. studied business, worked in business, live among successful businesspeople are for PAN and are afraid of AMLO. They are deeply afraid of Mexico becoming like Venezuela.

No Mexican person I know understands the fundamental problems in Mexico; they think because the politicians are corrupt the country is poor. It actually would be poor regardless how the politicians were.
1   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 2, 6:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It actually would be poor regardless how the politicians were.

Why?
2   komputodo   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 2, 7:01am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
It actually would be poor regardless how the politicians were.

Why?


Generally speaking...lack of ambition to create wealth.
3   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 2, 7:19am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Major causality: The siesta...

komputodo says
Generally speaking...lack of ambition to create wealth.
4   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 2, 7:19am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Major causality: The heat, creating the siesta...
5   clambo   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 2, 8:39am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RE: Mexico poverty. There are several reasons.

Without getting into the causes too much, basically the GDP is too small compared to the population of Mexico.

Mexican racism towards the indigenous southern Mexicans has kept many of them on the fringes of Mexico economy and society.

An average Mexican from Oaxaca will feel less discrimination in the USA as an illegal than he would feel within his own country. They all feel much more welcome in California than they do in Nuevo Leon.

Mexico has depended upon their people working in the USA for decades; without the money from narcos and illegal workers in the USA, Mexico would go hungry.

Mexico Govt. policy is that Mexicans work in the USA; AMLO actually verbalized it.
6   MisterLefty   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 2, 9:55am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
My Mexican friends are a mixed group and have different ideas.
Do your Mexican friends believe they are Hispanic, Indians, or just Mexicans?
7   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 2, 11:01am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
It actually would be poor regardless how the politicians were.
clambo says
Mexico has depended upon their people working in the USA for decades; without the money from narcos and illegal workers in the USA, Mexico would go hungry.


These statements show zero understanding of root cause. Corruption is a legitimate root cause, working in the US is an effect of poverty, not a cause. Narcos do not give their money back to Mexico, they launder it through their own illegal business's. People who are narcos have money, people who aren't, do not, there is no trickle down...

Mexico has more farmable land than the US. Food is the biggest expense in any country. If Mexico was not so corrupt, they could easily feed themselves and then some. If we want to look at some hard root cause I'd start with the War on Us, which has turned Mexico into a narco-state. Before that you get into the culture of "Fuck you because I can", which has it's roots in colonial conquest, and before that the Aztecs.
9   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 2, 11:20am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Obrador has as much say in where Mexico goes as the cartels let him. For that reason alone, don't expect Mexizuela anytime soon. If he wasn't with the cartels, he never would have lived to see election day.
10   Iranian_Oil_Burse   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 2, 11:47am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

NuttBoxer says
Obrador has as much say in where Mexico goes as the cartels let him. For that reason alone, don't expect Mexizuela anytime soon. If he wasn't with the cartels, he never would have lived to see election day.


Venezuela is a well-established narco-state (even their fucking VP has been described as "prominent drug trafficker" by US Treasury Dept) . So if Obrador is as connected to cartels as you say Mexizuela is exactly what it's going to be.
11   clambo   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 2, 4:43pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I understand well the causes of poverty in Mexico, but I didn't want to bore the readers.

Problems there are derived from their history and that would bore everyone. Suffice to say that Mexico would have a higher standard of living if it had a different history and today it's got too many poor and no clue how to educate, employ and feed its people. Today the government has to choose between paying for social programs or paying for security. They don't have enough for both or maybe either.

If Mexico has more farmable land than the USA it's surprising to me, but I wonder if it's irrigated land.

In the Baja peninsula for example, there is a lot of farming. The problem is that the wells may be unable to supply enough water (San Quintin, CD. Constitucion) so until you get far down the peninsula (close to Cabo) there is sufficient water from the mountains.

AMLO is going to be a disaster for Mexico and a pain in the ass for the USA. He is not our friend and should be treated as an enemy of the USA.
12   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 2, 4:52pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

One of the reasons Mexico is poor: Landowners liked no tariffs, so they could import luxury European Goods. Therefore, industry came late and really only with US Multinationals, esp. after NAFTA.
13   Ceffer   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 2, 4:55pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

As long as Mexicans think their holy mission is just to make more Mexicans, they will always be poor.

It's a deeply classist and racist society through tradition. If there is no birth control, maybe re-employing the pyramids for human sacrifice to the gods? Perhaps the Aztecs found they did double duty that way.

I knew a Mexican guy who identified as upper class, and he was FURIOUS if you ever implied he had anything to do with the "peasants". Yes, he called them peasants.
14   Kepi   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 2, 7:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says

It actually would be poor regardless how the politicians were.

Why?
Generally speaking...lack of ambition to create wealth.


I really do appreciate this sentiment (lack of ambition to create wealth). And, I would like to add one thing to this idea -- the people of Central and South America, far more often than not, really treat each other like SHIT! They manage to build roads and dwellings and banks and markets, but they do not treat each other well. Nobody likes to be treated badly, and when one is treated badly that one treats another badly and the avalanche starts.
15   clambo   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 3, 2:42pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Some small historical perspective herewith.

Both the USA and Mexico were taken over by outsiders; however the USA was less densely populated by indigenous and was maybe easier to farm; in the old days farm land represented wealth. The people who came to the "new world" from Europe wanted to get rich; the Spanish however were rather more interested in "get rich quick" via exploitation of the natives. There were many of them around. Most of the early Dutch and English immigrants to the US were not seeking gold nor establishing silver mines, they were interested in farming.

A low percentage of Mexicans are still of Spanish ancestry who are caucasian. Once at a dinner in Valle de Bravo (weekend spot for Mexico City people) a Mexican said to me in his perfect English: "You Americans were smart; you killed off the indians. We Mexicans bred with them instead."

Because Mexico has a history of exploitation and a large population of subsistence farmers for a long time (maybe forever?) it's hard to drag about 1/2 of Mexico into the 21st century.

But history and topography although not helpful are combined in Mexico with extreme ignorance and stubborn people who are barely able to feed themselves having more children. A sad thing I have seen even in relatively prosperous Baja is single motherhood seems to be increasing.

Of course, these girls are going to be like Cinderella, waiting for some prince to take them away from their poverty.

You can meet them if you speak Spanish. It's odd to be treated like an important person in a foreign country, while at home you are "the enemy."
16   tovarichpeter   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 3, 2:51pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

To what extent is Mexico poor because it is Catholic?
17   MisterLefty   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 3, 3:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
"You Americans were smart; you killed off the indians. We Mexicans bred with them instead.
While engaging in horrendous treatment of the natives, even for European colonialists. https://history.mcc.edu/wordpress/history/2014/03/18/spanish-treatment-of-the-natives/

Now we have these ignorant natives unaware of how they were fucked over by the Spaniards, adopting their language and aspects of their culture, and in the USA, identifying with these sick bastards by describing themselves to be "Hispanic."
18   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 3, 4:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

tovarichpeter says
To what extent is Mexico poor because it is Catholic?


I was raised Catholic and do believe it encourages more acceptance of one's current situation than Protestantism does, in general.

Protestants seem more inclined to start businesses, while among Catholics starting a business is perceived as a bit dirty, being an indication of self-interest.

Maybe these things have faded in recent decades, but there was a distinct split along those lines for a long time.

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