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What liberals (still) get wrong about Trump's support

By someone else following x   2018 Jul 23, 8:15pm 991 views   43 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support

After each outrage, progressives believe supporters will drain away. On the contrary: he is giving them what they want

Liberals and progressives are forever predicting Donald Trump’s political demise. After each purported outrage – Charlottesville, separating children from their immigrant parents, now Helsinki – they confidently contend that this latest event will finally force Trump’s supporters to abandon him. Yet not only does this not happen, Trump’s support has actually risen by 6% since late 2017. How do they keep getting it so wrong?

To quote Ronald Reagan: “The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.” They presume that because Trump is so unconventional in style, his coalition must be equally unconventional. But it’s not. The data clearly shows that Trump’s political coalition is pretty much the traditional Republican coalition. And the often virulent behavior of anti-Trump partisans has made partisan Republicans especially unwilling to abandon their leader even when he stumbles.

The sheer ordinariness of Trump’s coalition is impossible to overstate. ...

Nor are Trump’s voters united by racism and sexism, as many on the left presume. Analysis by the libertarian Cato Institute’s Emily Ekins found that Trump’s general election support broke into five groups. Only one, the American Preservationists, contained a large number of voters who could be said to be generally hostile to racial and ethnic minorities per se. They were outnumbered by another group, the Free Marketeers, whose attitudes towards racial and ethnic minorities were as or more tolerant than the attitudes of Hillary Clinton supporters. ...

Democrats have done nothing since Trump’s election to reduce these feelings. On issue after issue the Democratic party has moved to the left, catering to a progressive base outraged at Trump’s election and seething at how the Democratic establishment foisted a fatally flawed candidate upon them. The latest progressive cause célèbre is for eliminating America’s border enforcement agency, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice). One can be outraged at how Trump is enforcing America’s immigration laws without thinking that eliminating all border enforcement is a good idea. An idea like this keeps Republicans united in their support for Trump as it clearly shows how unacceptable the alternative is.

The news media’s behavior also keeps Republicans in line. It is impossible to overstate the degree of daily vituperation visited upon the president in the media. Comics and actors use their non-political programs to attack him, often to the implicit applause of the press. Virtually all coverage outside the conservative Fox News and isolated conservative outlets is negative, often couched in highly hostile terms. Virtually all of the columnists at the New York Times and the Washington Post, America’s two most respected dailies, despise Trump – and that includes nearly all of the conservative, libertarian and Republican columnists too. Trump supporters who follow news at all cannot escape the daily blast of negativity.

This has, predictably, hardened the attitudes of many Trump supporters. ...


From the guy who send the article to me:

Let me make it simple: the problem in this country is not some one single "bad" person, it is that a corrupt and Romanesque ruling class has failed to govern properly and sold out the working class, the middle class, and the country generally. Because their wealth controls the political class, the political class is corrupt also -- ALL OF THEM.

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4   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 23, 8:30pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Democrats have done nothing since Trump’s election to reduce these feelings. On issue after issue the Democratic party has moved to the left, catering to a progressive base outraged at Trump’s election and seething at how the Democratic establishment foisted a fatally flawed candidate upon them.


Just remember, we should be worried about that "Blue Wave" come November.
5   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 23, 9:08pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The left has become a caricature of itself -they don't hide the crazy anymore-sad.
6   MAGAbrush   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 23, 10:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

someone else says
it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.

Lets talk about crazy then, the Republican vision — hierarchy, social darwinism, and corporate neo-feudalism — that run counter to the original promise of America. You always put labor over a barrel to work for lower pay. Reagan was the worst thing that happened to working people and this country. His compass was the Powell memo, secret at the time, and the corporate feudalists who placed him into power.

EQUALITY The first democratic value, announced in the Declaration of Independence, is that everyone is created equal. This does not mean that everyone’s accomplishments will be identical, since every individual has his own unique interests, talents, methods of "pursuing happiness," and even the very definition of what "happiness" is to that individual. So equality does not mean "sameness." Conformity is for Republicans. Equality simply means "equality of interest." It means that your "pursuit of happiness" is exactly as important as anybody else’s. It means that the janitor at General Motors has exactly the same fundamental right to pursue his own interests as the majority stockholder. It means that no one has any obligation to sacrifice his happiness and his interests for the benefit of anyone else. Specifically, this means that no would-be corporate master has any superior right to profit from the sweat and blood of working Americans, than those working Americans have to profit from their own efforts. It is on this, the most fundamental of Democratic and American values, that the entire American experiment in democracy and self-government is based.

FREEDOM. No core American value has been more badly abused by the Republicans than the idea of freedom. In their corporate banality, they have reduced freedom to nothing more than the freedom to pursue riches, and the prerogatives of the privileged. We Democrats understand that freedom is much more than that. Because we Democrats understand that the "pursuit of happiness," includes much more than the "pursuit of riches" — and indeed the "pursuit of riches" is frequently destructive of people’s happiness. The equal right of everyone to pursue their own happiness, includes the freedom to define for themselves their own interests, and to pursue those interests by whatever social, political, intellectual, artistic, technological and yes, economic means are available to them, so long as their "pursuit of happiness" does not interfere with the equally important interests of others.

DEMOCRACY AND SELF-GOVERNMENT. In the old world of Europe we came here to escape, government exists to serve the interests of the wealthy few. We showed the world that government can serve the interests of everybody. In America — especially under the Democrats — government has frequently been a positive force, promoting the freedom, prosperity and happiness of working Americans. Examples of democratic self-government empowering working Americans are numerous. Interstate highways, public schools, public colleges and universities, rural electrification, the minimum wage, the National Labor Relations Act, the eight hour work day, the GI Bill of Rights, FHA mortgages, assistance to higher education, Medicare, job corps, occupational safety and health, weather satellites, communications satellites, the internet, and even business corporations, are all examples of government created institutions and infrastructure that have made American freedom, equality, prosperity and happiness a reality, instead of a mere theoretical possibility. That’s what democratic self-government is for. It exists to promote the freedom of working Americans to not only pursue happiness — endlessly on some Republican created corporate treadmill — but to actually find it.

SELF-DETERMINATION. Americans came here to take charge of their own destiny. That includes deciding for themselves who they are, what is important to them, and how they choose to live their lives. This is the true "American dream," and it is the birthright of every American — equally shared by every American, rich and poor alike. Our laws, public institutions, public infrastructure, and the many and varied private associations we make with one another, all exist to further each individual’s pursuit of his own destiny. We, the Working Democrats, recognize that tyranny over individuals takes many forms, public and private, and that one of the fundamental functions of functions of government is to free individuals from all forms of tyranny, public and private.

DIVERSITY. Freedom and self-determination necessarily means a wide range of lifestyles, modes of work, styles of dress, artistic tastes, religious and spiritual beliefs, and matters of personal morality that do not affect public safety or the legitimate rights of others. Many of these are the product of the diverse cultures present in American society. Many others are "homegrown" and unique to single individuals. We, the Working Democrats, do NOT call for "tolerance," but rather for something even more profound. "Tolerance" suggests that there is a "preferred" American culture. Instead we call for a simple recognition that freedom, self-determination and equality of interests mean that individuals are absolutely free to make their own decisions regarding the cultural heritage they choose to accept, adopt or change to suit their individual interests.

COOPERATION AND INTERDEPENDENCE. No person is an island. While we recognize the basic equality of every person, and their fundamental freedom to create their own individual destiny, we also recognize that no one does this entirely alone. From our families, to our communities, to our democratic institutions, to our vast public infrastructure, everyone has benefited from the efforts of others — including people they have never seen or heard of. In the case of the fortunes of our economic elites, those were built in large part, with the sweat of working Americans. In fact, working Americans well understand that individuals pursuing their own happiness can come together, and work together to accomplish great achievements. They also understand that such cooperative enterprises — including specifically private economic enterprises — frequently result in an unequal distribution of the benefits of such enterprises. We, the Working Democrats, recognize that a democratic government has a legitimate interest in insuring just compensation for every individual when she lends her efforts to some profitable cooperative enterprise.

RATIONALITY. Democratic self-government is based on the fundamental intelligence and rational self-interest of our citizens. Furthermore, freedom and self-determination include the belief that individuals are fully capable of using their rational minds in the search for truth and knowledge. On the other hand, myth, superstition, bigotry and ignorance are the tools of tyrants and oppressive elites. We, the Working Democrats, believe that a functioning democracy, requires a well educated citizenry. Furthermore, we categorically reject every effort of corporate America to manipulate and deceive working Americans with appeals based on prejudice, fear, false patriotism, empty symbolism, and every other form of ignorance and irrationality.

PRACTICALITY. In the words of Thomas Jefferson, "governments are instituted among men." Likewise, every other institution and organization, whether public or private, is the creation of human beings for the purpose of advancing their interests. Republicans forever talk about "principle versus expedience." But one principle, announced by Jefferson himself, is whether existing laws, institutions and organizations actually WORK to advance the interests of those subject to them. We, the Working Democrats, recognize that democratic self-government includes the inherent right of the people to create, modify, or abolish public insititutions and infrastructure, based on the simple criteria of whether such institutions and infrastructure serve the practical interests of individuals who live under them.

EMPOWERMENT. Very few, if any, human achievements were accomplished by individuals acting alone. If you are reading this, somebody taught you to read. Somebody invented the microchip and developed the technology of computer networks. Somebody launched the satellite that is very likely relaying this message from our computer to yours. Somebody perfected the "rocket science" that launched that satellite, and somebody taught them to read. The benefits enjoyed by individuals as the result of the efforts of others — including others long dead — are too numerous and too complex to ever be fully described. Indeed, it is a miracle that so much individual effort and achievement is both the result of empowerment received, and results in empowerment which is passed on. We, the Working Democrats, believe that empowering individuals to make the most of their individual efforts is not only a legitimate function of government, it is the primary function of democratic self-government.

OPPORTUNITY. Empowerment creates opportunities. When people take advantage of opportunities, they create still more opportunities — for themselves and other people. Any circumstance, whether it be the result of tyranny, oppression, or simple neglect, that reduces opportunities for anybody, reduces opportunities available to everybody. If American history proves anything, it is that the stronger we are as individuals, and the more opportunities are available to us, the greater will be our achievements, not only as individuals, but as a nation.

PROSPERITY. When we recognize people’s inherent freedom and self-determination, when we empower them with beneficial infrastructure and institutions, when we appreciate and honor our diverse cultural heritage, when we cooperate in both public and private enterprises, and when we recognize the fundamental equality of every individual, what we get is prosperity. Whenever a would-be elite places itself on the backs of working people, the inevitable result is stagnation, poverty, oppression and ignorance. We came to America to escape those things, and we built the most prosperous society that ever existed. Today, a ruthless corporate elite, and their political handmaidens in the Republican Party, would exchange a democratic, free and prosperous America, for an America mired in debt, cheap labor, bigotry and ignorance — just like the feudal Europe we left behind. We, the Working Democrats, reject this corporate neo-feudalism, and the polices that are even now impoverishing and oppressing the working Americans who built this prosperous democracy. We call on the Democratic Party to once again be the voice for those working Americans, and to once again become the champions of the equality, freedom, democracy and resulting prosperity that have made America unique among the nations of the earth.
7   MAGAbrush   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 23, 10:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RafiMaas says
Trump is corrupt?

Ya think?


hahahahahahahahahaa
8   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 24, 6:52am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Copy and paste with no credit?
9   Aphroman   ignore (6)   2018 Jul 24, 7:25am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

You can call me whatever you’d like and label me a POS liberal just like J. Peterson, however you ought to call me early because I’ve been saying this all along:

“ The data clearly shows that Trump’s political coalition is pretty much the traditional Republican coalition”

The new boss same as the old boss. Welcome back to Jeb Bush America. GOPe=Trumpublicans

Trump was elected by the same simple simon crappy “Americans” who desecrate our flag by constantly injecting their childish religious nonsense into our government.

The easiest group of people to manipulate in the history of humanity

They’re coming to take away the gunz!

Abortion is bad! (Hello it’s 2018 not 1958)

Blacks cause all the crime and waste all our taxes

Mexicans are taking our jobs.



Pete, meat Repeat. It’s the same old hat they’ve been drubbing these morons in their heads with for over a century. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Just wait until Democrats take back the Government and all of a sudden The Debt will be a big issue, lol
10   someone else   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 24, 7:55am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
The easiest group of people to manipulate in the history of humanity


Actually, it's all about jobs.

Everything else in politics just doesn't matter by comparison. Export the jobs to China and import illegals, then you get Trump.

If you want to get rid of Trump, stop screwing over working class Americans. Drop the tranny bathroom shit, drop the 24/7 accusations of racism/naziism/sexism, and do something that benefits labor.

Trump is doing all the right things for working people, and talking very loudly about it. Democrats need to be more like Trump that way.
11   RC2006   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 24, 8:07am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

rando says
Everything else in politics just doesn't matter by comparison. Export the jobs to China and import illegals, then you get Trump.

If you want to get rid of Trump, stop screwing over working class Americans. Drop the tranny bathroom shit, drop the 24/7 accusations of racism/naziism/sexism, and do something that benefits labor.


It really is that simple but the dems will just double down on more of the same because anything else is admitting they are wrong and Trump is right. Centrist/independent democrats have no voice in their party.
12   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 24, 8:30am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGAbrush says

Lets talk about crazy then, the Republican vision — hierarchy, social darwinism, and corporate neo-feudalism — that run counter to the original promise of America. You always put labor over a barrel to work for lower pay.


And GOPelites are still doing this. That’s why the MAGA party is in the process of ousting these traitors and replacing them with Republicans who will be down with the MAGA agenda.
Before Trump, we had ZERO choice. It was wealthy elite controlled Democrats or wealthy elite controlled Republicans. On every significant (non social) issue, the two parties were absolutely United. This gave voters no candidate in any election who would fight for their jobs, for the national economy, or against encroachment of common rights and freedoms.

Then we got Trump who created the MAGA party. He ain’t perfect, but at least now we have a choice, a representative who represents American workers and is fighting to build our economy, increase our wages (through curbing uncontrolled immigration), and bring back jobs and self respect to the American working class.

Americans want to be a part of their own future, not have it dictated to them from the plutocrats on high.

I’m sorry you’re a globalist scum .
13   Aphroman   ignore (6)   2018 Jul 24, 8:33am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

someone else says
Aphroman says
The easiest group of people to manipulate in the history of humanity


Actually, it's all about jobs.

Everything else in politics just doesn't matter by comparison. Export the jobs to China and import illegals, then you get Trump.

If you want to get rid of Trump, stop screwing over working class Americans. Drop the tranny bathroom shit, drop the 24/7 accusations of racism/naziism/sexism, and do something that benefits labor.

Trump is doing all the right things for working people, and talking very loudly about it. Democrats need to be more like Trump that way.


I’m not buying it. Not that it matters. I care far more about our actual government and governance, wrt the laws of the land, than i care about the Political fútbol that most seem to prefer.

You know like the #FakePatriots who constantly whinge about the powerless liberals and have gone on record as saying Trumps greatest accomplishment is pissing off liberals. I’m far too smart for such childish, unAmerican nonsense.

It’s impossible to believe anything the Trumpublicans say because they’re constantly talking out of both cheeks of their ass.

When Obama was president, it was always “the Government needs to get out of the way and let the private sector work it out!”. Now with Trump, they elected a president to give them jobs? I want what they claim to want: less government involvement in the marketplace.
14   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 24, 8:35am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
Just wait until Democrats take back the Government a


It’s going to be decades at this rate. The last time the Democrats shot themselves in the face this hard was the Carter Presidency.
15   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 24, 8:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

someone else says

Actually, it's all about jobs.


Yet Trump Dick suckers are buying MAGA hats that are made in China.
17   HEYYOU   ignore (17)   2018 Jul 24, 8:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
the political class is corrupt also -- ALL OF THEM.""


Does that include the stupid,ignorant,naive,brainwashed,retarded 126,000,000 Reps & Dems voters?
Yes!
They are responsible for the elected political class.

Being redundant is one of my issues.
Fuck all Republicans & Democrats! Didn't hear that?
Well,
Fuck all Republicans & Democrats!
18   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 24, 8:58am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RafiMaas says
Yet Trump Dick suckers are buying MAGA hats that are made in China.


rando says
False!

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-hat-china/


Ouch......
20   someone else   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 24, 9:39am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-factory-says-its-making-flags-for-trump-2020-campaign-2018-7

It's unclear whether the flags were ordered by Trump's campaign or other businesses...


But a Trump Campaign official told Business Insider that all their merchandise is made in the US, and vendors who suggest otherwise are lying or violating protected trademark rights.


Brilliant advertising by the Chinese flag company though! They use TDS to propagate their company name all over the internet.

Bad research by NPR, which values hatred of Trump more than facts, and values illegals more than poor US citizens who have to compete with them.
21   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 24, 9:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

rando says
Brilliant advertising by the Chinese flag company though! They use TDS to propagate their company name all over the internet.


And some accept that TDS as facts.

Amazing stuff!
22   Call It Crazy   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 24, 10:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Trumps performance is pathetic.

The only thing you can depend on him to do is to tell you whatever it is he thinks you want to hear and to gouge everyone so his family gets money.

SUCKERS! hahahaha
23   Tenpoundbass   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 24, 10:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Call It Crazy says
The only thing you can depend on him to do is to tell you whatever it is he thinks you want to hear and to gouge everyone so his family gets money.


I wish all Presidents screwed us like Trump.
24   Aphroman   ignore (6)   2018 Jul 24, 10:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Call It Crazy says
Trumps performance is pathetic.

The only thing you can depend on him to do is to tell you whatever it is he thinks you want to hear and to gouge everyone so his family gets money.

SUCKERS! hahahaha


It’s all about branding and marketing bullshit. For those of us immune to the brainwashing, it’s so plainly obvious. I just hope that they don’t cause too much irreparable harm to our once Great Nation
25   Call It Crazy   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 24, 4:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says
I wish all Presidents screwed us like Trump.

Thanks to Patrick, everybody in the whole world every single day knows just how hard you have fallen.

Y'all in Trump University should be paying me tuition for schooling you, bless your hearts.

The facts below highlight just how pathetic the Trump regime has been. The damned thing about all these facts below is that you can't say any of it at all has anything at all to do with what Obama or the deep state did.

This buries you.

26   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 24, 4:38pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

What distinguishes the Trump crowd is it's sky high level of sectarianism and tribal instincts: they would rather tolerate whatever Trump does than admit the other side might have a point. In fact they are proud of every insult to human dignity and intelligence Trump throws around.
The media just whips the other side in shape, and here we are:
27   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 24, 4:38pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

TDS is real
28   Call It Crazy   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 24, 8:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"DIVIDE AND CONQUER AGENDA " in that meme is

FALSE

"Divide and conquer" is a tactic.

The GOP "agenda" is globalism, in other words "less government," in still other words "corporate feudalism."

Government is being reduced right now, as we argue about whether or not shit is brown, in plain sight, to just what the neocons' corporations need to maximize their profits and insure other nations don't get in their way.

Trump is the distraction so we never talk about GOP handing government over to the oligarchs, all his lies, gaffes and silliness is just to satisfy the news peddlers, the editorializers. The important things he did was to kill tax revenues and appoint neocons to head various parts of government to preside over their destruction, the EPA, Education, Investment banking for example. We all howled but the news cycle moved on to Trump's next outrageous, silly assed high-profile fuck up. --they can't resist!

Meanwhile when the democrats get in their won't be enough money coming in to even have the government run independently from the oligarchy. The damage done. Crisis. New start after eliminating all social spending.

The other tactic is to gaslight the democrats as the conspirators with the illuminati, the deep state, WHILE THE REAL GLOBAL SHIT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN FRONT OF YOU IN PLAIN SIGHT.

Just today Trump took dental care away from veterans. Big story. Just another day. He's looking for more money, GOP's looking for money too by shutting down government functions unnecessary to their donors. --THAT IS THE AGENDA

Trump supporters are impenetrable. Democrats know this.

Look at Mr. "TDS is real"
29   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 24, 9:30pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Call It Crazy says
Just today Trump took dental care away from veterans


link?
30   clambo   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 25, 4:27am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Some of you may be slightly interested in how foreigners think about poor people flooding into their respective countries.

They're upset and don't like it.

Since I'm 1. a spanish speaker 2. have numerous friends from Peru, Colombia, Mexico I can read things they are concerned about on Facebook.

Venezuela is so fucked up that they are infiltrating lots of different places. In Mexico my friend says they're annoyed by them and want to throw them out. In Peru it's the same thing and so in Colombia.

Interesting they all want to keep their jobs and meager benefits to themselves. How quaint.

Trump isn't corrupt; he doesn't benefit from the solar panel scams (Solyndra), bullshit wind "farms" (GE) and other corporate welfare. He doesn't own any defense manufacturer so he can't give himself a contract, etc.
31   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 25, 6:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
Trump isn't corrupt; he doesn't benefit from the solar panel scams (Solyndra), bullshit wind "farms" (GE) and other corporate welfare. He doesn't own any defense manufacturer so he can't give himself a contract, etc.


Funny how the 20% tax free for LLCs was limited to 315k income except for real estate. I wonder what government employee has lots of real estate LLCs . Just coincidence I'm sure,
32   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 25, 10:55am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says
What distinguishes the Trump crowd is it's sky high level of sectarianism and tribal instincts: they would rather tolerate whatever Trump does than admit the other side might have a point. In fact they are proud of every insult to human dignity and intelligence Trump throws around.


The other point's side is that MS-13 is a youth group, Russia elected Trump with Facebook Ads, and ICE should be abolished.

The latter two unites both Corporate Neoliberal Dems and the Hard Left, but turns off the majority of Americans, including many Blacks.

Oh, and a total disinterest in the increasingly evidenced use of FISA with 5 eyes and government National Security contractors (who were simultaneously Dem Campaign contractors) to spy on political opponents.
33   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 25, 11:02am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
clambo says
Trump isn't corrupt; he doesn't benefit from the solar panel scams (Solyndra), bullshit wind "farms" (GE) and other corporate welfare. He doesn't own any defense manufacturer so he can't give himself a contract, etc.


Funny how the 20% tax free for LLCs was limited to 315k income except for real estate. I wonder what government employee has lots of real estate LLCs . Just coincidence I'm sure,


Ah but the mortgage interest deduction cap did happen, affecting everybody incl. DT. And it was about time.
34   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 25, 11:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says
Heraclitusstudent says
What distinguishes the Trump crowd is it's sky high level of sectarianism and tribal instincts: they would rather tolerate whatever Trump does than admit the other side might have a point. In fact they are proud of every insult to human dignity and intelligence Trump throws around.


The other point's side is that MS-13 is a youth group, Russia elected Trump with Facebook Ads, and ICE should be abolished.

The latter two unites both Corporate Neoliberal Dems and the Hard Left, but turns off the majority of Americans, including many Blacks.

Oh, and a total disinterest in the increasingly evidenced use of FISA with 5 eyes and government National Security contractors (who were simultaneously Dem Campaign contractors) to spy on political opponents.


Agreed. Compared to this batshit insanity Trumps embellishments are smooth talk. Until the left comes back to their common senses there's not much to debate about Trump here.
35   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 25, 12:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
Agreed. Compared to this batshit insanity Trumps embellishments are smooth talk. Until the left comes back to their common senses there's not much to debate about Trump here.

That's the point: the 2 sides are going batshit crazy, citing the other side as excuse.
Whatever happened to common sense and common interests.
36   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 25, 12:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGAbrush says
EQUALITY The first democratic value, announced in the Declaration of Independence,

American value, not democratic. The founders feared democracy. They did not want the ignorant masses to be able to have the keys to the treasury.
37   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 25, 12:20pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGAbrush says
no would-be corporate master has any superior right to profit from the sweat and blood of working Americans, than those working Americans have to profit from their own efforts.

No one is forced to take or keep a job from a "corporate master". We can work for ourselves or find a different job.
38   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 25, 12:23pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGAbrush says
Because we Democrats understand that the "pursuit of happiness," includes much more than the "pursuit of riches" — and indeed the "pursuit of riches" is frequently destructive of people’s happiness.

Progressives are interested in the pursuit of others riches.
39   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 25, 12:24pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGAbrush says
In the old world of Europe we came here to escape, government exists to serve the interests of the wealthy few.

Good thing Hillary was not elected.
40   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 25, 2:14pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Call It Crazy says



What about the racism and sexism?
41   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 25, 2:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
MAGAbrush says
no would-be corporate master has any superior right to profit from the sweat and blood of working Americans, than those working Americans have to profit from their own efforts.

No one is forced to take or keep a job from a "corporate master". We can work for ourselves or find a different job.


I've always wondered about these whiners who complain about their "corporate masters"? Are they chained to their desks and never allowed to leave?

Don't like your "corporate masters", there's always Monster, CareerBuilder, LinkedIn, etc. waiting for you..... Or, go start your own company and become a Corporate Master.
42   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 25, 2:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Are they chained to their desks and never allowed to leave?


Of course not. They complain about working at the same job for 20 years, yet never explain how in 20 years they NEVER FOUND ANY OTHER EMPLOYER who would pay them more money.
43   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 25, 4:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If you look at how Democrats take our tax dollars to buy votes instead of spending it on common good... you’d want to keep them away too. :)

Onvacation says
MAGAbrush says
EQUALITY The first democratic value, announced in the Declaration of Independence,

American value, not democratic. The founders feared democracy. They did not want the ignorant masses to be able to have the keys to the treasury.

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