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Can someone be a Patriotic Christian ?


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2019 Jan 21, 10:51am   2,100 views  15 comments

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These days it is constantly implied that a "patriot" is somebody who supports the actions of the government. We are also lead to believe that a "patriot" is somebody who supports the War in Iraq. Using the flag, as well as ideological constructs of 'good v. evil' we are ever so (mis)lead to believe that a "patriot" is somebody who supports the status quo of America, and beyond that, that the status quo in America is on the side of good, morally righteous, and just.



The zeitgeist ignores Mark Twain's views on patriotism. And that is quite unfortunate. Because in truth, a "patriot" is something else entirely.

In 1904, Mark Twain said:

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

These days, however, it seems that the criteria for "patriotism" is merely a "Support the Troops" magnet or "Stars and Stripes" lapel pin. What happened? These days, a "patriot" seems to merely be a brain-dead cheerleader. RA!! RA!! RA!! In essence, its very easy to be a "patriot" these days.

But like Mark Twains said: "Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest."-- Education and Citizenship speech, 5/14/1908. And the 'scoundrel' of today's "patriot" sure has found cunning ways to further his aim. He has gone one step further. He attempts to fuse "christianity" with "patriotism".

But as Mark Twain also said:

"A man can be a Christian or a patriot, but he can't legally be a Christian and a patriot--except in the usual way: one of the two with the mouth, the other with the heart. The spirit of Christianity proclaims the brotherhood of the race and the meaning of that strong word has not been left to guesswork, but made tremendously definite- the Christian must forgive his brother man all crimes he can imagine and commit, and all insults he can conceive and utter- forgive these injuries how many times?--seventy times seven--another way of saying there shall be no limit to this forgiveness. That is the spirit and the law of Christianity."

He continued:

"Well--Patriotism has its laws. And it also is a perfectly definite one, there are not vaguenesses about it. It commands that the brother over the border shall be sharply watched and brought to book every time he does us a hurt or offends us with an insult. Word it as softly as you please, the spirit of patriotism is the spirit of the dog and wolf. The moment there is a misunderstanding about a boundary line or a hamper of fish or some other squalid matter, see patriotism rise, and hear him split the universe with is war-whoop."

And finally:

"The spirit of patriotism being in its nature jealous and selfish, is just in man's line, it comes natural to him- he can live up to all its requirements to the letter; but the spirit of Christianity is not in its entirety possible to him. The prayers concealed in what I have been saying is, not that patriotism should cease and not that the talk about universal brotherhood should cease, but that the incongruous firm be dissolved and each limb of it be required to transact business by itself, for the future."

https://theunitedamerican.blogs.com/bring_it_on/2005/08/what_is_a_patri.html

Related: http://turningupbones.com/journal-friday-may-6/

#Patriot #Christian

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1   mell   2019 Jan 21, 10:53am  

Yes.
2   anonymous   2019 Jan 21, 10:55am  

Consider me impressed - reading all of that in less then two minutes and then giving due consideration to the argument Twain presented.

Standing in the shadow of genius me thinks....
3   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2019 Jan 21, 11:08am  

Patriot doesn't mean blindly agree with government 100% of the time. Sometimes government can be corrupt, sometimes wrong. I don't see why being a Christian and Patriot would be mutually exclusive.

It's like that false choice question "is good considered good because god loves it, or is it good because it's good". There is a third answer.
4   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Jan 21, 11:17am  

Yes. This country needs Maximum Whiggery.

Can somebody be a patriotic Socialist or Globalist? No, because they no (longer) believe in the national state.
5   anonymous   2019 Jan 21, 11:38am  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
This country needs Maximum Whiggery.


Like this ? On a mission from God: Pompeo messages evangelicals from the Middle East.

“This trip is especially meaningful for me as an evangelical Christian, coming so soon after the Coptic Church’s Christmas celebrations. This is an important time. We’re all children of Abraham: Christians, Muslims, Jews. In my office, I keep a Bible open on my desk to remind me of God and His Word, and The Truth.”

He added that he was in Cairo to herald another truth, that America was a “force for good” in the Middle East.

Politics, he said, “is a never-ending struggle … until the Rapture.” The Rapture being the belief among many evangelical Christians that believers and the resurrected dead will rise up to heaven with the second coming of Jesus Christ. ( aren't the ISIS fighters etc. striving for the same end ? God must have a wicked sense of humor )

http://www.atimes.com/article/on-a-mission-from-god-pompeo-messages-evangelicals-from-the-middle-east/
6   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Jan 21, 11:40am  

I said THIS COUNTRY needs Maximum Whiggery.

But I'm certainly not voting for a party that has Pro-Sharia Congresswomen.
7   anonymous   2019 Jan 21, 11:41am  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
This country needs Maximum Whiggery.


Or like this ? If America Stopped Destroying The World, The Bad Guys Might Win!

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told reporters on Saturday that the government under Venezuela’s recently re-inaugurated president Nicolas Maduro is “illegitimate”, and that “the United States will work diligently to restore a real democracy to that country.”

Pompeo’s remarks, which were echoed by Trump’s National Security Advisor John Bolton, are interesting for a couple of reasons. The first is because Venezuela’s presidential election in May of last year (which incidentally was found to have been perfectly legitimate by the international Council of Electoral Experts of Latin America) was actively and aggressively meddled inby the US and its allies. The second is that while the US government is openly broadcasting its intention to keep interfering in Venezuela’s political system, it continues to scream bloody murder about alleged Russian interference in its own democratic process two years ago.

What is the difference between the behavior of the United States, which remains far and away the single worst offender in foreign election meddlingon the planet, and what Russia is accused of having done in 2016? According to a comment made by former CIA Director James Woolsey last year, it’s that the US interferes in foreign democracies “for a very good cause.”

And that’s really the only argument that empire loyalists have going for them on this subject. The US is different because the US has moral authority. It’s okay for the US to continue to interfere in the political affairs of foreign nations while it would be an unforgivable and outrageous “act of war” for a nation like Russia to do the exact same thing, because the US is countering the interests of the Bad Guys while Russia is countering the interests of the Good Guys. Who decided who the Good Guys and Bad Guys are in this argument? The US.

This “What we do is good because we’re the Good Guys” faith-based doctrine was regurgitated with full-throated zealotry in a recent speech given by Pompeo in Cairo, in which he cited “America’s innate goodness” in making the absolutely ridiculous claim that “America is a force for good in the Middle East” which has been “absent too much” from the region previously. America’s nonstop deadly interventionism in the Middle East is “good”, because America is “innately good”.

America’s constant military interventionism, election interference and other nastiness are painted as Good Things done by Good Guys to fight the Bad Guys. The argument, when you boil it right down, is that if America wasn’t constantly starting wars, invading sovereign nations, staging coups, sponsoring proxy conflicts, arming terrorists, bombing civilians, torturing people, implementing starvation sanctions on impoverished populations, pointing nuclear weapons everywhere, spying on us all with a globe-spanning Orwellian surveillance network, interfering in foreign elections, and patrolling the skies with flying death robots, the Bad Guys might win.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-14/if-america-stopped-destroying-world-bad-guys-might-win

Ironic that everyone claims they are on the "good" side and "god" is also on their side....isn't it ? Sure "god" can overlook all the behind the scenes bullshit of the military industrial complex etc. to help us maintain being the good guys.
8   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2019 Jan 21, 4:27pm  

You mis define patriotism as most US Citizens see it, which is adherence to the concepts and principles laid out in the constitution. This is particularly true of the freedoms listed in the amendments.

In that regard, most Christians are patriotic and proudly so as the rights listed in the Constitution and Amendments are specifically granted not by a government or a "Leader", but rather by God.

In the end, popular sentiment was decisive. Recently freed from the despotic English monarchy, the American people wanted strong guarantees that the new government would not trample upon their newly won freedoms of speech, press and religion, nor upon their right to be free from warrantless searches and seizures. So, the Constitution's framers heeded Thomas Jefferson who argued: "A bill of rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on earth, general or particular, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference."


https://www.aclu.org/other/bill-rights-brief-history

Rather funny that the ACLU now is seemingly ok with a government that does now refuse such rights.

www.youtube.com/embed/zFFLlpC9f9Q
9   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2019 Jan 21, 5:59pm  

At least Jesus voided that bullshit about "Thy shalt not kill."
You fucking Christians have got a long way to go.
Fuck Jesus if he disagrees with your value system.


You say something bro?
10   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Jan 21, 6:48pm  

Kakistocracy says
Or like this ? If America Stopped Destroying The World, The Bad Guys Might Win!


I'm sorry, what happened in Libya and Syria before 2017?
11   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Jan 21, 6:48pm  

CovfefeButDeadly says
At least Jesus voided that bullshit about "Thy shalt not kill."
You fucking Christians have got a long way to go.
Fuck Jesus if he disagrees with your value system.


12   anonymous   2019 Jan 22, 5:22am  

CovfefeButDeadly says
most Christians are patriotic and proudly so as the rights listed in the Constitution and Amendments are specifically granted not by a government or a "Leader", but rather by God.


Kindly direct me to the book/verse(s) in the Bible where the United States is mentioned by name. For the life of me I have not been able to locate said passage. All my life I have been searching where God/Jebus singled out the United States and have yet to find it.

Even after contacting devout patriotic Christian luminaires such as Pat Robertson, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Oral Roberts Ministries, Pat Buchanan, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum etc. not one was able to direct me to the passage(s) in question however I did get numerous requests for money, the more I promised to send in, the more Christian I would become - supposedly, or in some cases more Patriotic and blessed.
13   anonymous   2019 Jan 22, 6:00am  

If there is supposed to be a separation of Church and State in this country, why do I continue to see the American Flag displayed in the church ?

Catholic, protestant - doesn't matter. If you get really lucky, you might stumble upon someplace using the old 48 star version.

Is this because old parishioners tend to forget what country they are in during the hour or so they are inside the building ?

Maybe to subtly remind everyone that separation doesn't really exist. ?

Everyone hired the same interior decorator who had a thing for red, white and blue ?

Anyway - can someone explain why this is necessary ?
14   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2019 Jan 22, 7:29am  

Kakistocracy says
CovfefeButDeadly says
most Christians are patriotic and proudly so as the rights listed in the Constitution and Amendments are specifically granted not by a government or a "Leader", but rather by God.


Kindly direct me to the book/verse(s) in the Bible where the United States is mentioned by name. For the life of me I have not been able to locate said passage. All my life I have been searching where God/Jebus singled out the United States and have yet to find it.

Even after contacting devout patriotic Christian luminaires such as Pat Robertson, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Oral Roberts Ministries, Pat Buchanan, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum etc. not one was able to direct me to the passage(s) in question however I did get numerous requests for money, the more I promised to send in, the more Christian I would become - supposedly, or in some cases more Patriotic and blessed.


I don’t understand what point you are trying to make
15   NuttBoxer   2019 Jan 22, 7:55am  

This country was founded by patriotic Christians. If you want something that's more often mutually exclusive ask "Can Christians support central government?"

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