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1   RWSGFY   2019 Feb 13, 10:33am  

Sure. But after we reap the low-hanging fruit first: deport the illegals.
2   Ceffer   2019 Feb 13, 11:13am  

That's what's so nice about Great Socialist Paradise taxers, they are only doing it for the Greater Good. Who was it who said the wholesomeness and euphimism-ness of the statement purpose is a major indicator of it's nefariousness and cloaked purpose (i.e. 'Patriot Act').
3   SunnyvaleCA   2019 Feb 13, 11:25am  

Isn't real estate taxed already? Why isn't that more than enough? Seems like a city would love having empty apartments. They still pay property tax supporting local schools, fire, police, etc. But empty apartments aren't flooding the city services!
4   curious2   2019 Feb 13, 1:28pm  

SunnyvaleCA says
Isn't real estate taxed already? Why isn't that more than enough?


Real estate is already taxed, but in California, Prop 13 creates huge distortions. Limiting Prop 13 to a primary residence would be enough, IMO. Empty apartments could then be taxed on fair market value, as other jurisdictions have done for probably centuries.

SunnyvaleCA says
Seems like a city would love having empty apartments.


The ~2010 foreclosure wave showed that empty housing units can become an attractive nuisance, drawing squatters who use them as meth labs, etc. The consequences can damage or destroy adjacent housing. In ordinary circumstances, property owners have a vested interest in protecting their property, but the foreclosure wave showed exceptions: where title becomes unclear, and management remote, conditions can deteriorate rapidly.
5   Goran_K   2019 Feb 13, 1:37pm  

SunnyvaleCA says
Isn't real estate taxed already? Why isn't that more than enough? Seems like a city would love having empty apartments. They still pay property tax supporting local schools, fire, police, etc. But empty apartments aren't flooding the city services!


Agreed.

But this attack on "empty" apartments is just another stalinist class attack on those who have on the behalf of those "who do not". It does nothing to address the actual issue, regulatory costs and high taxes which prevent companies from entering the market and providing more housing.
6   curious2   2019 Feb 13, 1:53pm  

Goran_K says
the actual issue, regulatory costs and high taxes which prevent companies from entering the market and providing more housing.


That is by far the biggest issue. There would be no incentive to warehouse empty apartments if someone else could build a huge supply of new apartments across the street. The price of apartments would fall from the artificial shortage price to the actual housing value, while the empty apartments would incur maintenance costs and depreciation with no revenue.

Prop 13 does distort investment decisions, though, partly due to endowment effects. If you inherit a housing unit that has a low tax basis for Prop 13, then you have financial and psychological incentives to keep that tax basis, rather than selling and putting the money into something with a better return.

The main idea of Prop 13 was to prevent tax increases from forcing people out of their homes, and I support that goal. The text of Prop 13 has other consequences that were unintended from the POV of most voters, and those consequences have created a powerful lobby of commercial property owners that maintain their giant loophole.
7   Goran_K   2019 Feb 13, 2:09pm  

Conversely if you strip commercial protections from Prop 13, you will push a segment of businesses out of California due to... higher taxes.
8   curious2   2019 Feb 13, 2:12pm  

Goran_K says
Conversely if you strip commercial protections from Prop 13, you will push a segment of businesses out of California due to... higher taxes.


I wonder about the scale of that, and the net effect. The main beneficiaries are inherited commercial landlords, a rentier class in every sense of the phrase. They can't really remove the land from California. Newer businesses, i.e. the ones that are creating new jobs, are actually paying higher taxes to offset the tax subsidy to inherited landlords. Google and Facebook are hiring all the time, and paying higher taxes than inherited landlords that aren't hiring much if at all.

California has a similar issue involving water rights. Holders of "senior" (often inherited) water rights can waste huge quantities of water (e.g. on animal agriculture), while new industries (e.g. chip manufacturers) get pushed out of state in search of water and lower costs. These distortions cause 80% of the state's water to go to 2% of the economy, i.e. agriculture, while the other 98% of the economy must either conserve or relocate.
9   SunnyvaleCA   2019 Feb 13, 2:48pm  

Right on Curious!

I'm a proponent of applying Prop 13 to "primary residence only." this would have the additional benefit of requiring someone taking advantage of that to also file as a California Resident for purposes of personal income tax.
10   ForcedTQ   2019 Feb 13, 3:54pm  

Before Prop 13 is stripped back to what the original intent of the voters was: to maintain a primary residence for fixed income individuals; we need to seriously work on a bill that limits ALL of damn government spending that utilizes property tax revenue! Just because some 13 protections get repealed, should not equal increased spending due to additional revenue!
11   Tenpoundbass   2019 Feb 13, 4:40pm  

How?

If you're happy paying high rent clap your hands!

Need to tax the shit out of 2nd or 3rd single family homes if you really want to see housing affordability and supply come back into line.

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