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Rin spoke with Prius owners on the Nissan Leaf

By Rin follow Rin   2019 Mar 1, 10:41am 1,826 views   40 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Ok, so far, I'm not able to find too many EVs on the streets of Boston or even in the greater metro area, at least in comparison to ICE sedans.

So I did an informal survey and asked local Prius owners what they thought about the new Nissan Leaf EV, since that's the most cost effective all electric.

And the response was fairly consistent, no one was happy about the 150 mile ceiling and the fact that one was depended upon regular charging stations than in having the convenience of a gas tank which makes driving feasible under all conditions.
1   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 1, 10:41am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

And no, I didn't ask any Tesla owners.
2   socal2   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 1, 12:17pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Forget the Leaf (or the Prius). The battery is too small and they still don't have battery heating and cooling which I think would be necessary for colder climates in the Northeast and maximizing the battery life. I don't believe the Leaf has the horsepower or the torque that the Chevy Bolt and Tesla has either.

I'm on my second month of driving a Chevy Bolt and I am still grinning like an idiot everyday feeling the awesome acceleration and amazing one pedal driving with the powerful regenerative braking.

Tesla just announced the $35K base model 3 yesterday.

I just saw my first Hyundai Kona EV in the wild parked next to my Chevy Bolt at the post office today.




3   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 1, 12:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The ordinary commuter is not looking at getting an EV muscle car version of an ICE. The muscle/sports car types are a different demographic.

That's why the Prius owners (which actually has lots of units rolled out all over the Boston area) would only consider an EV in their pricing range but of course, balk at the miles per charge which is a huge limitation.
4   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 1, 1:09pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Rin says
Ok, so far, I'm not able to find too many EVs on the streets of Boston or even in the greater metro area, at least in comparison to ICI sedans.


That's because in the cold weather of Boston, batteries can lose half their power and are tough to recharge when it's below freezing. Who would buy a fair weather car in those conditions?
5   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 1, 2:29pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
That's because in the cold weather of Boston, batteries can lose half their power and are tough to recharge when it's below freezing. Who would buy a fair weather car in those conditions


That's why a Chevy Volt is a much better car.
6   socal2   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 1, 3:45pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
That's because in the cold weather of Boston, batteries can lose half their power and are tough to recharge when it's below freezing. Who would buy a fair weather car in those conditions?


Yep - that is still a problem for EV's. But all of the newer EV's have a 200-300 mile battery and will still have well over 100 mile range on the coldest days. That satisfies about 95% of the customer needs. The trick is getting faster recharge times.
7   socal2   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 1, 4:06pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
The ordinary commuter is not looking at getting an EV muscle car version of an ICI. The muscle/sports car types are a different demographic.


I would not compare EV's to muscle cars. Certainly not the Bolt. I see alot of old dudes and ladies driving them around here. EV's just drive different and better IMO.

The single gear smooth, torquey and silent acceleration is awesome, but its the regenerative engine braking that makes it so much more fun and easier to control. I can accelerate to the speed limit as fast as I want and know that I can easily slow down just by regen engine braking without having to touch the friction brakes.
8   EBGuy   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 1, 4:17pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

How To: Preheat Your EV This Winter
your-ev-this-winter/">https://transportevolved.com/2015/02/04/how-to-preheat your-ev-this-winter/
There’s nothing better than heading out the door on a cold, dark morning to find your plug-in car sitting there with a clear windscreen, a warm interior and not a single piece of ice or snow to scrape anywhere.
Try doing that with an ICE vehicle in your garage! EVs allow you to do things that were previously -- dare I say -- INCONCEIVABLE!
9   socal2   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 1, 4:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

EBGuy says
How To: Preheat Your EV This Winter
https://transportevolved.com/2015/02/04/how-to-preheat <font color="> your-ev-this-winter/">https://transportevolved.com/2015/02/04/how-to-preheat your-ev-this-winter/
There’s nothing better than heading out the door on a cold, dark morning to find your plug-in car sitting there with a clear windscreen, a warm interior and not a single piece of ice or snow to scrape anywhere.
Try doing that with an ICE vehicle in your garage! EVs allow you to do things that were previously -- dare I say -- INCONCEIVABLE!


Have to admit that has been a nice feature, even in Southern California this winter.
10   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 1, 6:13pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

EBGuy says
There’s nothing better than heading out the door on a cold, dark morning to find your plug-in car sitting there with a clear windscreen, a warm interior and not a single piece of ice or snow to scrape anywhere.
Try doing that with an ICE vehicle in your garage! EVs allow you to do things that were previously -- dare I say -- INCONCEIVABLE!


If you're getting ice and snow in your garage, you have a lot bigger issue than preheating your car? Do you regularly need to melt ice off your car in your garage?

Funny thing, with my ICE car, I can go out to a nice warm car with the heated seats all nice and warm now, ice melted, no problem. It's a technology called "Remote Start". Amazing technology, isn't it?

Inconceivable??? Really?
11   EBGuy   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 1, 6:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Funny thing, with my ICE car, I can go out to a nice warm car with the heated seats all nice and warm now, ice melted, no problem.

I'm sorry you can't afford a garage.
PS - neither can I.
12   socal2   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 1, 7:42pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
If you're getting ice and snow in your garage, you have a lot bigger issue than preheating your car? Do you regularly need to melt ice off your car in your garage?


I think it is also an issue of heating up the battery on the super cold days. You also don't want to use the heat too much in EV's as it burns through the battery because there is no engine heat to recycle. They encourage you to run the seat and steering wheel heat instead. Especially if you can pre-heat your car in the garage while still plugged in.

Chevy has gotten really long life out of the Volt and Bolt batteries since it has a separate heating/cooling system keeping the batteries in a happy temperature
13   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 1, 7:50pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

EBGuy says
I'm sorry you can't afford a garage.
PS - neither can I.


Ha

Actually, I have a 2 car garage, but it's not for the cars, it's my workshop. I don't need to put the cars in there, you want to know why?

Remote Start... imagine that!!

Guess what, remote start works wonders for A/C too in the Summer, I get into a nice cool car... What would we do if Tesla technology wasn't invented... Oh, wait, I have a ICE vehicle. I can "recharge" it in 5 minutes at the gas station and go almost another 400 miles. How about you?
14   EBGuy   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 1, 8:01pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Actually, I have a 2 car garage, but it's not for the cars

So you like walking through the snow to get to your car on a cold wintery morning? To each his own...
15   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 2, 3:49am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

EBGuy says
So you like walking through the snow to get to your car on a cold wintery morning? To each his own...


Much of the midwest and New England regions grew up with snow and thus, being out and about in it, was a part of winter life. And not all workplaces have heated underground parking garages, many are outdoor lots.

And thus, the whole EV thing is very much a Cali and southwest phenomena.
16   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 2, 5:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
And thus, the whole EV thing is very much a Cali and southwest phenomena.

I have a hybrid. In summer assuming I drive carefully I get 38-39 mph. If I drive freeway at 55mph or so have gotten 45 mph -but I have a lead foot so 37-39mph is what I get.

Winter same driving habits -I get maybe 30mph at most. This is a hybrid so no charging batteries etc. I don't think EVs will work as a primary car here. I moved and have a heated underground parking garage-hated shoveling snow or coming back to a snowy driveway or worse ice.

But most places have outdoor parking and if for some reason you forgot to charge or God forbid your power goes out-the EV will be worthless and with the new key fobs won't even open?

I can't even imagine driving those things when it is -25F -most people are scared to drive gas/diesel because it amy not start -an EV no way!
17   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 2, 9:25am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Big picture - if you can only see Prius or Leaf as EV then your EV knowledge is limited.
Compare the Bolt, Kona, Niro and now $35K Tesla M3 for pure BEV. All 200ish mile range.
You live in the frozen northern hemi? You are in the minority of the world - drive a Landcruiser, who cares.
If one's situation requires it, there is nothing wrong with a PHEV, allowing the driver to partition the EV duty cycle based on need. I myself love it, I use typically 95% electric, 5% gas. Going for months without filling gas. There is a new crop of PHEV coming to the market, in addition to some good ones already.
The Leaf is good enough EV, each generation improving. Don't be USA focused, the world car sales is 78 million cars in 2018. Many parts of the world don't have supersized humans, Artic winters, 200 miles daily commutes. The Prius hybrid is not considered EV - no plug. It is a perfectly good high MPG, reliable solid transportation. The PIP is a very weak EV contender.
Typical of Toyota, perfecting an existing platform but unable and unwilling to innovate.
Risk taking is not T's DNA. More important, all ICE car makers have the handicap, a secret agenda to protect ICE profits, so they all run the EV race at half throttle.
Why do you think Toyota shoe-horned a BMW engine in the new Supra?
Answer - there is no future in spending big bucks in developing a new ICE high-perf engine.
Every auto maker knows it - end of the road for ICE, freefall in a few years.
How many miles of range do the majority (design sweet-spot) driver need?
Half the World’s Population Lives in Just 1% of the Land [Map]
http://metrocosm.com/world-population-split-in-half-map/
The Nordic countries are doing quite well with EVs.
18   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 2, 9:55am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
EBGuy says
So you like walking through the snow to get to your car on a cold wintery morning? To each his own...


Much of the midwest and New England regions grew up with snow and thus, being out and about in it, was a part of winter life.


Yep.. I was going to post something similar. That 20 seconds it takes to shovel a path to the car is sooo time consuming....
19   rocketjoe79   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 2, 4:32pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Let me guess - Norway is so flush with Oil Money they can afford to completely subsidize EV's.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/02/norway-electric-cars-subsidies-fossil-fuel

Quote from Article:
Buying a petrol or diesel car in Norway is expensive. A Honda CR-V starts at £21,000 new in the UK but there the bill begins at 486,900 kroner, or £46,000. Even taking into account higher consumer prices – one third more in Norway than here – the difference is significant. But while electric cars cost more to make and buy, since they escape all initial tax and VAT, their price is in line with fossil-fuel vehicles.

Erik Figenbaum, chief research engineer at Norway’s Institute of Transport Economics, said an imported VW e-Golf 36kWh cost £28,285 before taxes, far more than the petrol-fuelled Golf 1.2L at £19,867. After the Norwegian tax system has done its work, the figures look very different. The petrol version incurs £5,866 in registration tax, while VAT at 25% adds another £4,966, lifting the purchase price to a hefty £30,699. That makes the petrol car £2,414 dearer.

The electric version is also a lot cheaper to run, with annual charging costs averaging £264 against an average £1,293 on petrol. Electric cars are exempt from widespread road tolls, saving owners around £1,319 a year, and road-tax savings bring in another £267. Overall, an e-Golf is more than £3,000 a year cheaper to run, says Figenbaum. “The same situation is found in most vehicle classes with the exception of the smallest petrol cars, where registration tax is very low.”
20   E-man   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 2, 9:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
And no, I didn't ask any Tesla owners.


😁😁😁 That’s too bad... One happy Tesla owner here.
21   Reality   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 3, 5:31am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

rocketjoe79 says
Let me guess - Norway is so flush with Oil Money they can afford to completely subsidize EV's.


One can't burn raw petroleum in the internal combustion engine. Norway lacks refinery. Also, even before the discovery of oil in North Sea, Norway was well known as a hydro power producer: the Nazis built heavy water plant in Norway due to the free electricity in that country. It's a lot easier to export petroleum than exporting electricity, so Norway has a policy of encouraging locals to use electric cars, so they can export more oil and import less refined gasoline or diesel.
22   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 3, 7:20am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Here are the populations of those areas ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland

Norway ... 5.38M
Sweden ... 10.2M
Denmark ... 5.8M
Finland ... 5.5M

And those are whole countries, not city-states.

Now, look at the some of the combined statistical areas (suburban plus ex-burb expanse) of the bigger sized northeast/midwestern areas ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

Boston ...: 8.2M
NYC/TriState ... 23.8M
Chicago ... 9.9M
Detroit ... 5.3M
Minneapolis ... 3.9M
Cleveland/Columbus/Cincinnati ... 3.4M/2.4M/2.2M (~8M)
Philly/Delaware Valley ... 7.2M

That's over 66M residents and it there are still some urban/smaller suburban areas which haven't been subtotaled.

https://www.census.gov/popclock/data_tables.php?component=growth

I believe that nearly half the country is represented by those regions with strong winters.

So I don't get all the hoopla about Scandinavia.
23   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 9:22am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Scandinavia is only an example of EV adoption of a Northern Hemisphere region.
Again, did anyone address this question? If an ev with 200 mile range gets reduced to 100 mile in winter as a worst case, it would still satisfy 95-98% of daily trips of metropolitan drivers, without charging top-off, what is the problem?

These countries below in support of EV30 represent close to half of the world's population.
More important, they are the more advanced countries, which will utimately lead the automakers whether they like it or not. The largest car market is not US anymore. Exactly like the way California CARB forced the rollout of emission control technologies to cars for sale in Calif, then EPA set the standards to bring down pllutants ( HC, NOx, CO...).
Everyone benefited, even the ones crying foul and fighting it the whole way. In the end, a good thing.
I dont want the US to be the future dumping ground of old ICE cars. lol
--
"Governments supporting the EV30@30 campaign include Canada, China, Finland, France, India, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden.
The EV30@30 campaign is also supported by C40, the FIA Foundation, the Global Fuel Economy Initiative (GFEI), the Natural Resource Defence Council (NRDC), the Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport (SLoCaT), The Climate Group, UN Environment, UN Habitat, and the International Zero Emission Vehicle Alliance (ZEV Alliance).
The CEM is a unique partnership of 25 key countries, including most of the G20 economies, representing 90% of clean energy investment and working together to accelerate the global energy transition."
https://www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2017/june/new-cem-campaign-aims-for-goal-of-30-new-electric-vehicle-sales-by-2030.html
24   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 9:32am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Beijing winter is similar to New York.
Shanghai winter is similar to Washington D.C.
The can-do attitude had shifted east.
25   just_dregalicious   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 12:24pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        



"Today we started the Tesla after 4 days of sitting out in the cold, and made it home no problem. Then I dug out our Leaf, which was left out in colder than -20C temperatures for two weeks. Not only did they both start just fine, they drove like they didn’t even know it was winter… well range was reduced, but driving was still a blast, and we were super warm!!"

Wearing jackets in the car lol.
26   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 3, 12:35pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I've been around technology long enough. And I know to always avoid anything new until it gets around and it's flaws fixed.

Most problems with electric cars have not been worked out yet. It'll come up.
27   Liberal_in_blackface   ignore (6)   2019 Mar 3, 12:37pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
I dont want the US to be the future dumping ground of old ICE cars.


This can only be a concern if the existing 25 years rule is lifted, but why would it be?
28   Liberal_in_blackface   ignore (6)   2019 Mar 3, 12:39pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Governments supporting the EV30@30 campaign include Canada, China, Finland, France, India, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden.


Yet, the leader in EVs is right here in US and is called Tesla while most of the countries on the list don't produce any EVs, let alone desirable EVs.
29   just_dregalicious   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 12:42pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayneIndiana says
Most problems with electric cars have not been worked out yet. It'll come up.


I'm pretty impressed by how well they are working now. A decade ago I laughed at the tech and said we'd never see electric airplanes. We're going to have electric airplanes soon. (Okay they already exist but I mean at scale) With graphene and super/ultra capacitors and other new battery tech coming online over the next 20 years it's clear that is the future. I just wish I could find some investment angle on the battery tech. Maxwell wasn't profitable before Tesla bought them.
31   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 2:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Hugolas_Madurez says
kt1652 says
Governments supporting the EV30@30 campaign include Canada, China, Finland, France, India, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden.


Yet, the leader in EVs is right here in US and is called Tesla while most of the countries on the list don't produce any EVs, let alone desirable EVs.

These countries except China, have less to gain from EV as manufacturers and more to benefit from moving away from fossil fuels.
As one can see, Germany and USA are two huge EV maker heavy weights. Germany is obviously a world leader in renewable energy rollout. China has shot ahead of Germany and USA in EV sales and manufacture.
just_dregalicious says


"Today we started the Tesla after 4 days of sitting out in the cold, and made it home no problem. Then I dug out our Leaf, which was left out in colder than -20C temperatures for two weeks. Not only did they both start just fine, they drove like they didn’t even know it was winter… well range was reduced, but driving was still a blast, and we were super warm!!"

Wearing jackets in the car lol.

As was said, if an EV can fill 95% of your daily needs and saves fuel year round. It would make perfect sense to just quick charge on that 2-5% days when one needs a boost. Or utilize Lyft, Uber... Taxify, Didi, Getaround, Ola, GrabBird,Blablacar...
If 90% of cars dont need gas stations, we'd only need to convert a fraction of those to EV chargers since only a fractions of EVs need away from home charging. EV chargers are so much easier to install, they can be anywhere.
Use one's imagination, customized electric autonomous bus that comes to your street corner at the exact time, giving ETA update realtime. There are aps like that in Hong Kong already.
32   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 2:10pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayneIndiana says
I've been around technology long enough. And I know to always avoid anything new until it gets around and it's flaws fixed.

Most problems with electric cars have not been worked out yet. It'll come up.

EV movement dont need everyone to get on today. If we only convert 50% that would be 40 million cars a year. lol
33   Liberal_in_blackface   ignore (6)   2019 Mar 3, 8:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Germany is obviously a world leader in renewable energy rollout

Actually Germany is a giant failure in the said nenewable energy rollout which is why it craves Russian gas in their pipelines (and Putin's dick in Merkel's arsh) more than ever.
34   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 3, 8:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
FortWayneIndiana says
I've been around technology long enough. And I know to always avoid anything new until it gets around and it's flaws fixed.

Most problems with electric cars have not been worked out yet. It'll come up.

EV movement dont need everyone to get on today. If we only convert 50% that would be 40 million cars a year. lol


I don't care about that. There is no "movement". It's just new tech that solves a problem. However, it doesn't solve it well yet, and it has flaws. When they work it out, make it cost effective... I'll be on board. Till then... I'll wait it out and let those folks who jump on new tech deal with it.
35   B.A.C.A.H.   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 3, 9:13pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Or utilize Lyft, Uber...

My Millenial nephew is doing just that. When his car was totaled in an accident he made do with lyft and uber while waiting for the insurance money, and discovered he liked it more than having his own car. Mainly, because of the expense associated with "owning". After he got his insurance money, he did not get a replacement car.
(* thankfully, no serious injuries in that accident).

So many people flat ass broke, up to their eyeballs in debt, and a generation of folks who don't buy into owning stuff- even if they can afford it - may doom "ICE" car sales more than the new competition from EVs.

Baby boomers and Gen-Xer people just want to own everything, have it all, not share (like carpooling) even if they must borrow to "own". "Slaves of their possessions", as its said. It's about time for things to change.
36   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 3, 10:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
If an ev with 200 mile range gets reduced to 100 mile in winter as a worst case, it would still satisfy 95-98% of daily trips of metropolitan drivers, without charging top-off, what is the problem?


There is this concept of 'metering'. In a sense, what the ICE did was eliminate that from the way of life. So sure, if a person is highly conservative and only drives exactly to work and back, and leaves the vehicle on a plug overnight, then sure, EVs are "a way" to go. Here's the thing, what the ICE accomplished was that it eliminated this from the horse and buggy tech of pre-1900 where yes, the animals were high maintenance and couldn't gallop across the country without rest, eating, and crapping.

Today, a person is free to go, wherever he wants and whenever, even if a sudden road trip to see a friend/relative in another state comes up or running errands around various ex-burb towns which can easily chew up 70+ miles from out of the blue. When I used to drive a lot, I would make road trips between Boston, NYC, and Philly regularly. And the worst that would happen is that when I get off that highway, exit 4 on the NJ Turnpike, I would just refill at a Wawa's to continue on my journey. If it were an EV, I'd be somewhere stuck in Connecticut, battling it out with angry drivers at the charge stations. Sorry, but no thanks, I prefer to be free and independent.


B.A.C.A.H. says
may doom "ICE" car sales more than the new competition from EVs.


There's the used market for Corollas and Civics, under $8K, which can accommodate many ppl's budgets. I've seen original engines last up through 250K miles.
37   B.A.C.A.H.   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 3, 10:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
If it were an EV, I'd be somewhere stuck in Connecticut, battling it out with angry drivers at the charge stations. Sorry, but no thanks,

This is a near daily occurrence acted out by the techies in the parking lots of employers here in Silicon Valley. The morning battle for the few charging stations. It can get ugly out there.

If my partner is lucky enough to get a spot for her plug in, will get tapped on the shoulder if her car stays at the station for like one minute longer than is needed.

Snarkey remarks abound in the workplace about this.
38   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 3, 10:34pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

B.A.C.A.H. says
This is a near daily occurrence acted out by the techies in the parking lots of employers here in Silicon Valley. The morning battle for the few charging stations. It can get ugly out there.


My free livery service has insulated me from the real life experience but I've heard the same thing on the east coast but probably even worse, because believe or not, ppl actually don't have a budget for exactly how many miles they need, as daily errands/extra items always come up and then, there are fewer stations than out west but even more ppl need 'em as daily winter temperatures can swing from 5 to 40 degrees regularly.
39   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 3, 11:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Prius owners aren't going to be ambassadors for Tesla, that's a given. Tesla is already outselling the Prius, by a lot, so it doesn't really matter what a few think.. I expect EVs will continue to grow exponentially from here. All the automakers roadmaps are focused on EVs.


Who the heck uses the term "livery"? That's archaic.
40   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 4, 12:00am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ThreeBays says
Who the heck uses the term "livery"? That's archaic.


I was born into a working class New England family and thus, when my firm allowed me to expense all 'transportation costs', as a part of my consulting contract, I was able to transition into Old New England ways where yes, having livery service is a part of the lifestyle.

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