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Do You Need A Degree From An Elite University To Have Success In Life?

By ohomen171 follow ohomen171   2019 Sep 15, 6:04am 1,756 views   64 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


#collegecheatingscandal
Madame President:
Your Sunday newspaper...I have many things to be proud of in you, Pedro, and Luah. All of you have incredible educational achievements. Of equal importance, all of you worked hard and earned your educations in a completely honest manner.
Right now there is a big scandal in this country about wealthy parents who paid large bribes to get their children into elite colleges like Stanford, Harvard, Yale, University of Southern California, UCLA, etc. The largest bribe was a stunning $6.2 million paid by the owner of a Chinese pharmaceutical company to get his daughter into Stanford. There is a long list including one actress who paid a $500,000 bribe to get two of her daughters into elite schools. One person who paid a $15,000 bribe already got 14 days in jail. Many other still face sentencing. If they had been honest, they could have made large contributions to these colleges. It would have helped their kids to get in honestly.
There is some question about the value of getting a degree from elite colleges. On one hand let us look at the educational institutions of our last few presidents as follows:
President Bush I BA Yale
President Bill Clinton: Yale Law School (Hillary Clinton also graduated from Yale Law School)
President Bush II: BA Yale and MBA Harvard
President Obama: Harvard Law School honors graduate (Michelle Obama also graduated from Harvard Law School)
President Trump: Attended Wharton Graduate School of Business
There is another side of this debate questioning the value of these elite schools. Only 23% of the Ivy League college graduates make it into the top 1% of wage earners in the US.
Let us look at the curious case of Elena E. Torello, MD. She graduated from the University of Buenos Aires Medical School. Elena spent most of her life speaking Spanish. Before coming to the US, Elena read English but could not speak it. When she arrived here and took the three tests for her US medical license, she scored in the top 5% of those medical school graduates taking the test. She was right up there with graduates of Harvard, Yale, and Stanford Medical Schools. She got accepted to the very competitive Kaiser San Francisco residency program. She did so well there that she was offered a job at Kaiser San Francisco when she graduated. Getting a job as a doctor at Kaiser is like getting accepted to the US Navy Top Gun fighter pilot's school. (Only 1% of the fighter pilots are selected.) Getting hired is not the last obstacle to having a career at Kaiser. After a probationary period, your fellow doctors must vote you in as a shareholder. When Elena started her career at Kaiser, her first office had previously been occupied by a Stanford Medical School graduate who had failed to be voted in.
A degree from an elite college is not an absolute necessity in life or an absolute guarantee of success.
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25   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 15, 11:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

SunnyvaleCA says
Harvard education is competitive with or less expensive than a public university in a student’s home state.


I don't know about the rest of the USA but at least for Massachusetts, anyone with the numbers to get accepted to Harvard, will have a full scholarship of any one of the public colleges in the state. Now, is that 'lower tier' education worth it? Well, if it means graduating with no debt and then, pursuing a trade, instead of corporate BS, w/o overhanging debt then why not?
26   NoCoupForYou   ignore (5)   2019 Sep 16, 12:55am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Anne Wojicki was married to Sergei Brin when she founded 23andme. Guess what company underwrote 23andme?

Google, of course.

And how did Google get started? In Susan Wojcicki's garage, which they rented for $1700/month. At the time she was an Intel Executive. Of course, she went to harvard.

All networking and friendships. If not the "Ace Tomato Company", since Brin and Page's Google was originally underwritten by the MDDS: Massive Digital Data Systems Initiative, the goal of which was, assuming that humans of like minds would "Flock" online, coming up with ways to identify and track individual members.

The interesting thing is that the Wojcicki Sisters are both involved in businesses or wings of the business (Google AdSense, Youtube) primarily financed by the sale of personal information.

23andme sells your genetic data to private researchers. Google, Adsense, and Youtube also sell your personal information.

I mention this because there's a campaign out there to celebrate the Wojcicki's mother as a model parent, for teaching her kids "Kindness".

And because, from the very beginning, despite the "Don't Be Evil" Claims, the entire point of Google was to collect and sell personal information.
27   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 16, 6:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CornPoptheOriginalGangster says
despite the "Don't Be Evil" Claims


First of all, why would a company need to pre-announce to the world that it isn't planning to do any malice? I mean consciously speaking, aside from Big Tobacco, how many companies intentionally go into business, just to screw people over?

I mean when we launched our firm, adding "alpha to a conservative portfolio" was our motto and we used the fact that we were New Englanders and not Wall Streeters to up sell that credo. Well, up until we merged, that was exactly what we were. If our motto was to "we won't (wink! wink!) risk all your funds and hopefully we don't crash & burn" then chances are, by year three that's exactly what would have happened.
28   Ceffer   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 16, 6:26pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
But that's the point right there, there's an objective path of examination scores which leads to a top residency. The folks at Harvard Med are pass/fail (no honors) and have little incentive to push themselves, once they gain admissions to the school.


My graduate school was supposedly pass/fail, too, because of the ostensible merit of the selected pool. However, the faculty kept track of an awful lot, especially since there were a number of political and social justice admissions that were real clinkers.

There is NO admissions policy at any institution at any level of selectivity that does not result in a minimum of ten percent clinkers, either through developmental failures, fraud or undue influence, and the scatterings of sociopaths and psychopaths are everywhere. Even Harvard Med has a vested interest in ranking students somehow, even if it is not on public record.

I would imagine Harvard Med would have a generous helping of legacy toads, too, just like all their other professional schools. They need people with good tans, proper manners, right backgrounds and the right accents and dress code in order to write scrips for the wealthy and hang out at the country clubs. These guys refer patients to the 'real doctors' when actual medical services are required.
29   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 16, 7:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ceffer says
There is NO admissions policy at any institution at any level of selectivity that does not result in a minimum of ten percent clinkers


I'm not so sure about this.

One of my senior partners, both Univ of Penn and Columbia dean's list alum, couldn't get above a 2:2, lower half second class honors, at Univ of London LLM (Law) program.

So perhaps the idea here is to eliminate grade inflation and let the Al Gores of the world take their D's so that the school still remains prestigious academically, while certain loser but aristocratic members get their posts in the Senate and the VP but can't brag about it since ppl can always show how they under performed.
30   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (49)   2019 Sep 16, 7:24pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CornPoptheOriginalGangster says
And because, from the very beginning, despite the "Don't Be Evil" Claims, the entire point of Google was to collect and sell personal information.


You read the Age of Surveillance Capitalism yet?
31   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (1)   2019 Sep 16, 10:44pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
SunnyvaleCA says
Harvard education is competitive with or less expensive than a public university in a student’s home state.


I don't know about the rest of the USA but at least for Massachusetts, anyone with the numbers to get accepted to Harvard, will have a full scholarship of any one of the public colleges in the state. Now, is that 'lower tier' education worth it? Well, if it means graduating with no debt and then, pursuing a trade, instead of corporate BS, w/o overhanging debt then why not?

If your "family income" is $65k or less, Harvard is free. Public school won't be cheaper than that. If your family is making $100k you'll pay very little; is public college going to wave most of the tuition for a family making $100k? I doubt it.
32   Shaman   ignore (2)   2019 Sep 17, 5:07am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

SunnyvaleCA says
If your "family income" is $65k or less, Harvard is free.


Wow! Everyone should go to Harvard!
Yep all 4 million graduates!
33   Shaman   ignore (2)   2019 Sep 17, 7:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Not if we can help it.
Re-elect Trump!
34   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2019 Sep 17, 8:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I have a BA in "Interdisciplinary Studies" from a small college that has since been renamed. So, no.
35   Shaman   ignore (2)   2019 Sep 17, 9:19am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

nybiker says
Wake up. Think. Spread the word. Dark times are coming.


I know you’d like to think so, but I’m not so sure. People won’t want to give up these creature comforts for a little liberty and some anarchy. Remember, anarchy is only ever a very temporary condition. It’s soon replaced with some form of government, usually monarchy or totalitarianism because any government at all is better than anarchy.
36   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 17, 10:06am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

SunnyvaleCA says
is public college going to wave most of the tuition for a family making $100k? I doubt it.


Then let me assuage your doubts.

I have right now in my circle of acquaintances, through their parents, two persons, both of whom graduated in the top 1% of their high schools and will attend two of the UMass campuses, 100% free of charge (no added loans for CoL calculations). Both of them got into at least one Ivy college and none of them were offered a full scholarship (no loan components) over there.

In other words, their free rides were merit based. If they got into UMass among the bottom tier of applicants then it would be purely need based with loans, etc.

Sure, if a person is a dirt poor valedictorian then attend HU because that's probably that kid's only chance of a Morgan & Stanley internship in life. Otherwise, look at other options because I know we tried to desperately hire a guy at the distance program at Univ of London but because he already had experience on his own accord, he had other options.
37   willywonka   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 17, 10:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I have an MBA from a top (non-Ivy) school. The MBA program is for networking and lining up a career path. So the higher caliber, well-connected fellow students, profs and the school itself, the better you can do.

But irrespective of any degree, it’s hard to keep a good man down (cameo by S. Daniels). Hard work, risk taking and creativity can still succeed in the USA.
38   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 17, 10:21am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

willywonka says
I have an MBA from a top (non-Ivy) school. The MBA program is for networking and lining up a career path. So the higher caliber, well-connected fellow students, profs and the school itself, the better you can do.


What's not clearly stated is that many of these ppl were already junior analyst/consultant for Morgan & Stanley, Bain, BCG, etc, before even applying for B-school. So that's in effect, a clubhouse effect and not one based around education.
39   willywonka   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 18, 11:19am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
willywonka says
I have an MBA from a top (non-Ivy) school. The MBA program is for networking and lining up a career path. So the higher caliber, well-connected fellow students, profs and the school itself, the better you can do.


What's not clearly stated is that many of these ppl were already junior analyst/consultant for Morgan & Stanley, Bain, BCG, etc, before even applying for B-school. So that's in effect, a clubhouse effect and not one based around education.
Huzzah! Add to that grade inflation, and an Ivy league MBA is a finishing school for the lazy, clueless and not intelligent scions of the upper class. What you get is brand credentialed imposters, fucking up and getting paid substantial sums, and jumping to the next disaster or just retiring with multi-millions.
40   willywonka   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 18, 11:40am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

texastina says
If you lived in a peaceful free country with a balanced budget and took out a student loan to go to medical school and then found out when you graduated that your country had turned into a bankrupt warmongering police state, would you work to pay back the debt and taxes?

https://finalchan.net/sp/
That depends on the individual. Do you agree to do what you promised to do? And is a political view a rationale for not paying for other reasons?
41   Shaman   ignore (2)   2019 Sep 18, 12:06pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

willywonka says
That depends on the individual. Do you agree to do what you promised to do? And is a political view a rationale for not paying for other reasons?


The nation making the loan didn’t have to. And you got a medical degree out of it, good for a great career. An honest person would pay her debts, and do what she promised to do.

I never used my degree, and it cost me $50k in loans.

I paid it all back with interest in four years of busting my ass.
42   rd6B   ignore (1)   2019 Sep 18, 12:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

texastina says
The elites have turned everyone into criminals, liars, hypocrites, and cowards.

The only good thing about living in a police state is that no one can take the moral high ground on anything.

@Patrick,
BOT ALERT!!!
43   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Sep 18, 2:34pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Thanks @6rdB

Bot dead now.

Got to automate this somehow. Maybe I can use tensorflow to categorize comments as all belonging to a certain type.
44   Ceffer   ignore (4)   2019 Sep 18, 3:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I need a degree from an Elite University because I'm a loser who wants to slum it through a lucrative career after faking my way in.
46   mell   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 1, 6:44pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

No.
47   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2019 Nov 1, 9:35pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

(Hillary Clinton also graduated from Yale Law School)

And didn't Hillary repeatedly fail the Bar Exam?
48   komputodo   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 1, 10:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I think you would have to define what SUCCESS IN LIFE means before any meaningful discussion could be made...I you mean success is being happy, then NO. Anyone can be happy or miserable...its a state of mind, not a level of education.
49   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 2, 3:32am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
And didn't Hillary repeatedly fail the Bar Exam?


Hey, at least she passed.

Al Gore flunked out of his first year at law school.
50   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 2, 3:35am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

komputodo says
SUCCESS IN LIFE means


It means having access to fast tracking programs at places like Boston Consulting Group, Morgan & Stanley, etc, where someone from a State U (not named UC/Berkeley), who by virtue of being seen a 'not one of us', seldom gets any attention without already having had many years of experience in the field.
51   Shaman   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 2, 7:00am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
It means having access to fast tracking programs at places like Boston Consulting Group, Morgan & Stanley, etc, where someone from a State U (not named UC/Berkeley), who by virtue of being seen a 'not one of us', seldom gets any attention without already having had many years of experience in the field.


Then you’d have to live in that part of the country. With a massive student loan that next thing to ublayable. And working for someone else at their mercy and whim.
Who needs any of that? Take the money you would have used and start a successful business with all those smarts and know how. Don’t bother with the silly hamster cage.
52   rd6B   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 2, 7:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ohomen171 says
Do You Need A Degree From An Elite University To Have Success In Life?

No you don't need, but if you are a rich, clueless dolt, then degree from such universities is a must. Kinda like joining an exclusive country club.
53   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (49)   2019 Nov 2, 10:22am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If you want an eight figure no show job, yes.

The rest of us are left to keep the powder dry, stockpile yams and teach the kids night sniper skills that will secure them a future in CANNIBAL! ANARCHY! that will surely consume the world and everyone in it.

OPEN! FIRE!, AMERICA! OPEN! FIRE! OR! DIE!
54   Ceffer   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 2, 11:19am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I needed a degree from an Elite University in order to become a smug failure!
55   komputodo   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 2, 1:34pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
It means having access to fast tracking programs at places like Boston Consulting Group, Morgan & Stanley, etc, where someone from a State U (not named UC/Berkeley), who by virtue of being seen a 'not one of us', seldom gets any attention without already having had many years of experience in the field.

Seriously? That is what defines success for you?
56   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 2, 3:15pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

komputodo says
Rin says
It means having access to fast tracking programs at places like Boston Consulting Group, Morgan & Stanley, etc, where someone from a State U (not named UC/Berkeley), who by virtue of being seen a 'not one of us', seldom gets any attention without already having had many years of experience in the field.

Seriously? That is what defines success for you?


I'm formulating the type of response you'll hear from a lot of northeast corridor types on the value of brand name schools.

And since for them, success is both "branding" and access to higher places then it kinda follows.

I'm just the messenger.
57   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 2, 3:17pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ceffer says
I needed a degree from an Elite University in order to become a smug failure!


Well, it certainly fooled a lot of ppl into thinking that Al Gore was smart.
58   Ceffer   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 2, 3:23pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
Well, it certainly fooled a lot of ppl into thinking that Al Gore was smart.


They just needed a game show host to translate for the Idiopolous.
59   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 3, 4:41am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Wait, I'm waiting for someone to defend Al Gore's admission to Harvard undergrad, just to later, flunk out of law school during his 1st year?

Any takers?

Ok, let me start ...

Al Gore Junior was son of Al Gore Senior, a Senator of his home state of Tennessee. Unlike let's say letting in some poor schmuck from upstate NY working in his dad's garage, re-conditioning some home appliances, Junior has a guaranteed job upon graduation from Harvard College as a potential candidate for future Senator or at least, the money manager for the estate of Senator Al Gore the Senior when the elder passes away.

And now, despite being a C- student in school and then later, getting straight F's in his first year of law school at Vanderbilt, Al Gore Jr is portrayed as some urbane intellectual who's environmentally conscious and a shoe-in for some major role in politics with little more than his family's legacy and reasonably decent looks. Well, the prediction came true and not only did Junior become a Senator and discover/invent the Internet, but he also became a Vice President of the United States.

Heck, even George W Bush and John Kerry outperformed Gore in school and that's not saying much.

FYI, I don't know of a single person who'd failed out of law school during his/her first year. At most, they left the program because they didn't want to borrow money for 2 more years just to not practice the law. That's how middle class ppl have to think because loans aren't dismissible in bankruptcy courts.
60   KgK one   ignore (0)   2019 Nov 3, 1:34pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

What shift jobs pay 165/210k ?
"And most of the guys I work with who make the same wage scale as I do have no degree and very little to no college. True they don’t understand the more technical aspects of my job like I do, but they make the same money, depending on overtime worked. Average is 165k/year for day shift and $210k/year for night. Oh and full benefits including a no out of pocket Cadillac health care plan and a very healthy pension. Hard to find any job to train for that offers better compensation."
61   Shaman   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 3, 2:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

KgK one says
What shift jobs pay 165/210k ?


Blue collar union trade skill jobs. Electricians, plumbers, certain specialty technicians, some top iron workers, elevator mechanics, heavy equipment mechanics, crane mechanics, crane operators, and then you have the government jobs...
Best way to get shift work that’s compensated so highly is to get a skill or package of skills that few others have. If you’re indispensable enough, you’re worth more.
62   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 3, 2:31pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says

Blue collar union trade skill jobs. Electricians, plumbers, certain specialty technicians, some top iron workers, elevator mechanics, heavy equipment mechanics, crane mechanics, crane operators, and then you have the government jobs...
Best way to get shift work that’s compensated so highly is to get a skill or package of skills that few others have. If you’re indispensable enough, you’re worth more.


At least in Mass, if you want to break into the $120K+ "trades" territory, you need to pick up off-hour shifts like overnights, weekends, & holidays for time & half or double time depending upon the agreements in place.

Otherwise, the more comfortable positions with regular 7AM to 3PM daytime shifts tend to be in $65K-$75K zone but with full benefits (and holidays) and no on-call for anything. If I'd known this as a kid, I probably would have never gone to college. Fortunately, I won a full scholarship, starting 2nd year, so my entire loan overhead was $1K which I'd paid off during my 1st month of work.
63   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 3, 5:31pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Booger says


BINGO!

Same thing for house prices, which are driven upward by government loan programs.

If you tax people to give everyone in the US a dollar to buy an orange, guess what will happen to the price of oranges? Yup, they will be the old price plus a dollar more.

Everyone loses except for two groups:

1. orange growers (who will lobby for that dollar in DC)
2. the people who get the subsidy first - they will get a deal, but as soon as the price goes up, all other buyers are right back where they were

And we all have to pay a tax which just goes through to orange growers.

The right way to deal with a shortage of education, or housing, or oranges is to increase supply, not to increase demand through subsidies.
64   Shaman   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 3, 5:51pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
At least in Mass, if you want to break into the $120K+ "trades" territory, you need to pick up off-hour shifts like overnights, weekends, & holidays for time & half or double time depending upon the agreements in place.


That’s definitely a part of those numbers. Figure on 55 hours a week. Not for everyone but does make it possible to support a family on one income.

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