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Some Thoughts On The Battle Of The Bulge 75 Years Later

By ohomen171 follow ohomen171   2019 Dec 16, 2:59am 356 views   8 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


#battleofthebulgeThis week 75 years ago the Battle of the Bulge began on the German border. It was Hitler's last attempt to stop the Americans and British from crashing into West Germany. The US had 610,000 troops fighting in this battle. 89,000 became casualties and 19,000 died. I feel that the real figure with soldiers missing in action was closer to 100,000. The Germans lost 80,000 to 100,000 men. My father fought in that battle and was never wounded.
All these losses and the losses in the last 4 months of the war including over 300,000 Red Army troops killed taking Berlin might not have been necessary. Sir Winston Churchill is a fascinating man. He was a great political leader. He was a great writer. He was a great painter. He had served in the British Army as an officer both in the Boer War (South Africa) and in World War I as a major fighting in the trenches. He was a brilliant historian. He relied on his knowledge of the Romans and how they fought wars to come up with an unconventional idea. He calmly pointed out to Stalin and Franklin Roosevelt that when Roman armies knew that their victory was inevitable, they became magnanimous toward their opponent. They offered generous peace terms and a chance for the opponent to save face. Before this battle began, he suggested that the Germans be offered a generous deal to quit fighting. Stalin blocked this move. At the end, he was "hell bent" on grabbing as much territory as possible. Stalin was a psychopath of the highest order and the worst murderer in the history of the human race (67,000,000 deaths). He once made this comment:
"One death is a tragedy. Millions of deaths are just numbers on a piece of paper."
1   Goran_K   ignore (3)   2019 Dec 16, 6:17am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

What terms could the allies have offered in 1944?

The Third Reich was in full retreat but still had 255 divisions of troops (about 3,000,000 soldiers total), and tens of thousands of armor left. The Luftwaffe was devastated but still active to the tune of several hundred aircraft active in air defense against the allied bombing campaign.

Defeat was inevitable but I wonder what terms they could offer to Hitler that surrender would have been possible. If the terms included Hitler being removed from power, I just don’t see it happening.
2   clambo   ignore (5)   2019 Dec 16, 7:43am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

My father was a veteran of the Battle of the Bulge also.
He moved to S. Florida and was in a group called "Veterans of the Battle of the Bulge" (VBOB). I went to three of their lunch meetings, and it was interesting.
Once the man next to me talked about how later he liberated a concentration camp and he was so disgusted he lost all his belief in god.
Another man who was wounded in the battle then captured by the Germans and was in a prison camp objected to his statement.

The veterans were often from the New York area as they often retire to Florida.

One man who attended was a Polish Jew who was in a concentration camp liberated by US forces and he gave a speech; the end of it was "Thank you for saving my life."

Churchill was inept as a military planner, as was Montgomery an inept general especially when compared to Patton. Churchill got us to invade Sicily which was a waste of men since it was not a meaningful objective and the Germans escaped the island anyway.

Hitler likely would have not wanted to fight the British and didn't seek to destroy their army at Dunkirk; he didn't really impede the escape back to England.

Hitler unfortunately hated the Russians and Stalin so much he wasted time and his army laying siege to Stalingrad which prevented him from his real goal which was Moscow.
"He who hesitates it lost"; Hitler lost. Had Hitler just gone quickly to Moscow, things would have maybe ended up very differently.

When I was growing up I didn't hear many war stories but my next door neighbor had been a tank commander; my uncle by marriage to my aunt was a platoon leader and my father's brother was a paratrooper who was in Anzio Italy. He got a lucky wound on his finger; the doctor who fixed him knew him from back in the states and got him sent back, I guess it was sort of a favor to a neighbor. I only heard this story a couple of years ago from my father.

I talked to another veteran of the Battle and he said they were cold because General Bradley didn't issue our Army with winter attire, assuming nicer weather. The soldiers were cold; he and others said that after the experience he would not stay in New York state because it got cold; he located to Florida as soon as he could. I heard about this from another veteran who had been a prisoner. "I decided I would never be cold or hungry again in my life."

The man who organized the meetings told me that during the battle he would wake up each day and just wonder if he would live the rest of the day; I bet feeling this way for a few weeks would leave an indelible impression on you.

It was sad to see that men who were at the first lunch were not in attendance by the third one which was 1.5 years later; they were passing away quickly at their ages.
3   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2019 Dec 16, 7:57am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

“Following the arrival of the monumental Allied victory on D-Day, the Nazis knew the momentum of World War II had swung against them, In their last effort to turn the tide of the war, they once again underestimated the resiliency and grit of the American troops.” - D. J. Trump
4   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2019 Dec 16, 8:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
What terms could the allies have offered in 1944?


Doesn't matter because Hitler wouldn't have accepted any of the terms offered. They were still expecting their super weapons to turn the tide.
5   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2019 Dec 16, 8:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
The man who organized the meetings told me that during the battle he would wake up each day and just wonder if he would live the rest of the day; I bet feeling this way for a few weeks would leave an indelible impression on you.


I have two Great uncles that were there. One of them was a tank mechanic. I have no idea what the other one did, but I think they worked together. He ended up being a mechanical engineer.
6   Goran_K   ignore (3)   2019 Dec 16, 8:53am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

zzyzzx says
Goran_K says
What terms could the allies have offered in 1944?


Doesn't matter because Hitler wouldn't have accepted any of the terms offered. They were still expecting their super weapons to turn the tide.


That’s my point. I don’t think surrender was possibly at any time in 1944. The Wehrmacht was still a formidable force during that time.

p.s - my grandfather fought in Japan in WW2 and was taken as a POW during the Japanese invasion of the Philippines and escaped to fight with Filipino guerillas!

I still have his letter/medal of commendation from his commanding officer for escaping the POW camp.
7   rd6B   ignore (1)   2019 Dec 16, 9:46am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

zzyzzx says
Doesn't matter because Hitler wouldn't have accepted any of the terms offered. They were still expecting their super weapons to turn the tide.

Negotiated end to war in this case would not be good - crushing Germany and re-making it into a normal country was immensely preferable. Too bad Russians were able to occupy the eastern part, no doubt because Adolf in his idiocy delayed Western advance by launching attack in the West.

An older guy I knew in Chicago had very colorful war history. He was drafted into Waffen SS by Germans in former USSR, surrendered to Americans in 1945, and after that he and his war buddies were guarding prisoners at Nuremberg trials under direct American command...
8   HEYYOU   ignore (47)   2019 Dec 16, 9:48am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Wonder if Republicans will look back with fond memories of their American Civil War 2.0 as they turn America into another shithole country? They are enjoying the pile of shit they have already dumped on this country.

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