patrick.net

How to 'impeach' without running the gauntlet of sworn testimony in an un-captured discovery process.

Democrats being forced to tell the truth at this point would induce palpitations and could be a heart risk for them.

Burisma whoring pandertardering free-shitters without the shield of captive corporate propaganda mills 'n shills would melt under the arc lamp of real scrutiny.

From the Constitution, Article One, Section two:
“ The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.”

That’s it. Says nothing about transmitting articles of impeachment to the Senate from the House. The only thing that is said about the House is this from Article One, Section one: “The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.”

So with respect to the Constitution, once the House has voted to impeach, it becomes the Senate’s authority to try the case.
That’s it.

Pelosi has control of the process until she sends it to the Senate. McConell wants a show trial, the Dems want witnesses and documents that Trump refused to provide. Trump wants a circus with conspiracy theories and Biden(s). I say bring it on; Dems get their witness and documents; Trump gets whatever witnesses and documents he wants. This seems fair, no?

Doesn't work out Pelosi can wait until after the election and they can do the trial in the lame duck session. He will be impeached sooner or later. After he loses the election maybe the Republicans will have an epiphany and throw him out. If he wins he's still impeached in history. Pelosi has them by their tiny shrunken balls and is just starting to squeeze.

OccasionalCortex says

So much for 'brilliance'.

I'd say it's a political version of a 'Hail Mary' pass where in effect, by virtue of signaling that the Prez is in so-called trouble, that it'll keep the general Republicans at bay during the 2020 election and give the Dems some remote angle in securing a more successful run at the national elections than in simply losing by a landslide.

Unlikely Slick Willy, however, Trump doesn't have a 'classy legacy (whatever that means)' to lose and thus, will toss barbs at the Dems, throughout 2020 indicating that the whole impeachment process was an attempt at denying the voters a voice in the 2020 outcome. IMHO, Trump has already won this because really, no one cares, esp when the economy is still doing well and ppl, in general, can find some level of employment w/o the spectre of some 'overly predicted' coming recession.

Chiromancer says

If he wins he's still impeached in history.

So wasn't Bill Clinton and as anyone can tell, no one, who wasn't offended by cum stains on the rug of the Oral Office, cared.

Rin says

wasn't offended by cum stains on the rug of the Oral Office, cared.

I think Clinton cared(s) Trump does/will also.

And we dont know what affect this will have on 2020, Clinton didnt run in another election. Yes I know all the Trumplorables think he is shoo in. Their predictions ( to put it kindly) have been less than perfect.

If they hold it till they have a senate majority...

Shit show will be out of this world.

I seriously doubt Trump believes he has the next election in the bag.

However, he has been a great Roadrunner. The Dems have been Wile-E-Coyote for sure, because everything they have done has just blown up their skirts to show their crookedness and shallow manipulativeness, all at great cost to our country for their limited perceived benefit. It shows that their control entities are both monolithic and crude, if unembarrassed.

Chiromancer says

Yes I know all the Trumplorables think he is shoo in.

First of all, it's not just some the Trump Lover's society ... it's called the general economic activity of the nation.

If we don't see a major market crash, come spring or summer time, followed by huge waves of layoffs, then yes, the incumbent President of 2020, whether it's Hillary, Bernie, Trump, or Cruz (using the notion of parallel realities here) would get re-elected.

Chiromancer says

I think Clinton cared(s)

He's a career politician so his behavior is different from a sleazebag casino owner.

Chiromancer says

Trump does/will also.

I'd say that he'd enjoy the drama, as he'd be a part of a Reality Show called the 'Witchhunt: The Impeachment'

What we've seen from Democrats these past few years is a love of smears, "parodies", biased investigations, biased hearsay "testimony", and constant withholding of exculpatory evidence, defendant witness testimony, and cross examination.

Chiromancer says

Pelosi has control of the process until she sends it to the Senate. McConell wants a show trial, the Dems want witnesses and documents that Trump refused to provide. Trump wants a circus with conspiracy theories and Biden(s). I say bring it on; Dems get their witness and documents; Trump gets whatever witnesses and documents he wants. This seems fair, no?

Pelosi and the Dems had control of their circus while the process was in the house. It's now the Senate's turn. They should be able to have a trial, if they want.

This seems fair no?

What’s to stop the Senate from beginning the trial? They could just start no matter what Nancy says.
And what could she do?
Appeal to the Supreme Court? Why yes that’s her only option. And then the high court would say, “what’s the problem? The Constitution is being satisfied by this process.”

And then we’d have a trial.

You have to remember that there has to be an “or else” in place or people will do whatever they want to. In this case, there’s no “or else” for old Mitchy Poo to kick off after the holidays as was always planned. Zero chance he capitulates to Nervous Nancy on anything! Why should he? She has no leverage!

Chiromancer says

I say bring it on; Dems get their witness and documents; Trump gets whatever witnesses and documents he wants. This seems fair, no?

This is exactly what the Dems DON'T want.

Ceffer says

This is exactly what the Dems DON'T want.

I disagree.

Who thinks the democrats will get the witnesses and documents they want ?

Allowing republicans to make their case about Joe Bidens son in a trial of Trump would be priceless to watch. Obviously they can buy some Ukrainians to say whatever, but I'm not sure that they can buy off all of the Trump people to testify under oath to what is basically a lie. But you can be sure the lawyers are working overtime trying to figure out how they might pull it off.

Someone please wake me up when there’s going to be an actual Trump impeachment trial. If the “genius” plan of the Democrats is to just vote articles of impeachment then never prosecute I’m done caring about this.

marcus says

they can buy some Ukrainians to say whatever, but I'm not sure that they can buy off all of the Trump people to testify under oath to what is basically a lie.

Are you trying to say that Hunter didn't get a job with Burisma?

Onvacation says

Are you trying to say that Hunter didn't get a job with Burisma?

Eyes wide shut.
It’s the way Democrats live.

Pelosi is keeping the impeachment docs tucked safely in her bra, where no man dare go.

The good news here is that Democrats have clearly lost public support because of their transparent attempt to defeat democracy.

Just like Berthold Brecht wrote about the communist government of East Germany, it would be simpler for Democrats "to dissolve the people and elect another."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_L%C3%B6sung

Patrick says

it would be simpler for Democrats "to dissolve the people and elect another."

That's what they have been trying to do with the hordes of third world free shitters and illegals.

It was inconvenient that the question/exclamation marks started popping up in the balloons over their customary voting base's heads that maybe this actually wasn't in THEIR best interest at all, diluting opportunities across the board except for the exempt LibbyFuck Royals.

Onvacation says

Are you trying to say that Hunter didn't get a job with Burisma?

Who cares? Just like nobody cares Ivanka got her trademarks approved by the Chinese. But hey bring him to the trial if it's believed Trump gave a shit about corruption, make the case under oath rather than on Fox news. But also allow Bolton, Mulvaney, Pompasshole and others to testify. Let's clear the air. Sunshine is the greatest disinfectant. Let Trump make his case let the Dems make their case. Why not a fair trial ?

What Trump wants is a trial presided over by Sean Hannity. What McConell wants is a rubber stamp acquittal. All polls show large majorities on left and right want witnesses.

Rin says

IMHO, Trump has already won this because really, no one cares, esp when the economy is still doing well and ppl, in general, can find some level of employment w/o the spectre of some 'overly predicted' coming recession.

This is really all that matters. And it's the reason for their hail mary you mention, as they know without a recession they're fucked.

If the economy was shit, Trump would be out of office already and everyone would be bitching and whining about Pence. Instead we'll continue the temper tantrum on a "story" about a call from a bunch of lifetime government employees, none of which have been taken off the government payroll to date or have any first hand knowledge.

I didn't realize my fellow Americans were such whiny pussies or at least how many of them are. Grow up, you lost and the attitude is preventing you from winning for the foreseeable future.

WookieMan says

Rin says

IMHO, Trump has already won this because really, no one cares, esp when the economy is still doing well and ppl, in general, can find some level of employment w/o the spectre of some 'overly predicted' coming recession.

This is really all that matters. And it's the reason for their hail mary you mention, as they know without a recession they're fucked.

If the economy was shit, Trump would be out of office already and everyone would be bitching and whining about Pence. Instead we'll continue the temper tantrum on a "story" about a call from a bunch of lifetime government employees, none of which have been taken off the government payroll to date or have any first hand knowledge.

I didn't realize my fellow Americans were such whiny pussies or at least how many of them are. Grow up, you lost and the attitude is preventing you from winning for the foreseeable future.

Let me add in my response to Marcus's KKK "white" washing (pun intended) emotional response to anyone who doesn't react against Trump.

https://patrick.net/post/1329272?offset=0#comment-1637370

Seriously, WTF, I wasn't even interested in politics until late 2017, when ppl from all over Boston and NYC went crazy, acting as if the election was stolen ala Al Gore 2000.

And then, 2 years later, it's the same thing. The keys notes are Trump's a sleaze, a racist, an X, a Y, and a Z. And as many Dems say ... it was Obama's economy; well, you can then just as well say that it was Bush's economy as GWB used both the "guns & butter" along with Q/E approaches, to dig out of the DotCom/Telecom crash. So Obama and Trump were the caretaker of Bush's legacy.

So there you have it, a 3rd viewpoint on the state of the economy.

Now, instead of responding with logical counterattacks, the Dems have "The Squad" (a.k.a fucking idiot leftist freshman congresswomen) and Bernie Sanders calling for revolution at Venice Beach CA, https://deadline.com/2019/12/bernie-sanders-vows-political-revolution-at-la-rally-1202815721/

as if Venice Beach along with Burlington VT (Bernie's socialist hometown) were the swing regions which the Dems had lost in 2016. Seriously, will these idiots ever learn, they have already won the coastal major metro areas, focus on the midwest and the lakes region.

If we don't have a major market crash this spring/summer followed by huge waves of layoffs, Trump gets re-elected. It's as simple as that. As we say in the trading business, Trump's personality traits have been priced into the market and thus, have little effect on the final outcome.

So if a few white nationalists in Boise Idaho want to act all gleeful, then let 'em have their soiree. The rest of the nation, whch really doesn't care about all that KKK nonsense, will move on with "the business of America, which is business", quoting Calvin Coolidge.

WookieMan says

I didn't realize my fellow Americans were such whiny pussies or at least how many of them are. Grow up, you lost and the attitude is preventing you from winning for the foreseeable future.

On a side note to the Dems out there, Trump in 2016 was NOT Gore's loss in 2000.

The latter was a stolen election, rigged by Katherine Harris and the Florida Supreme Court.

2016, however, was won fair and square by the rules in place and here's a map of the nation, county-by-county, indicating that Trump won the middle minus the coastal metro areas ...

marcus says

Ceffer says

This is exactly what the Dems DON'T want.

I disagree.

Who thinks the democrats will get the witnesses and documents they want ?

Allowing republicans to make their case about Joe Bidens son in a trial of Trump would be priceless to watch. Obviously they can buy some Ukrainians to say whatever, but I'm not sure that they can buy off all of the Trump people to testify under oath to what is basically a lie. But you can be sure the lawyers are working overtime trying to figure out how they might pull it off.

Not sure I understand this. Joe Biden's son, with zero experience, is pulling down a six-figure salary for a Ukrainian oil company where he does "nothing". I am sure the Republican's could dig up lots of crap as it was the NYT and other liberal organizations that first brought this to public attention first (not Republican's - please review the story line here). As to Trump, this is not an impeachment - it is a way to string out what Dems believe is a negative story that they hope will affect the election. Most people think that the senate "trial" is a simple majority for conviction - and when I point to my liberal friend that is not the case they wonder why the waste of time. You might flip one or two - you won't flip 18-20. This is pure political theater - but it is true that it started with Clinton and this is payback time for an impeachment that shouldn't have happened back then either. All these republican's crying about this should shut up and get down to business, take the senate impeachment without delivery (nothing is defined in the Constitution re: delivery - simply read the house record), and vote it down and move on. But both parties are figuring out what is the best political strategy - hence this will needlessly drag out.

Both parties suck. And Republican's don't know what to do as he is a populist and, outside of the court appointments, he is not very Republican at all (he is anti-free trade, pro-infrastructure investment, anti-war (I laugh when liberals get all distraught about his lack of support for "allies" in the mid-East). What a complete joke. Trump has flipped everything on its head and both parties are arguing from positions they refuted only a few years ago. Shows how this is more about politics than getting anything done.... Dems need to impeach to motivate their base.

We are fucked as a country based on what I read from people who claim to be "left" but then can't even agree on anything that they argued for previously. Everyone left of center was distraught on ANY military action - now they criticize Trump for abandoning allies -which was the typical Republican rationalization for continued involvement. What a complete joke. Repubs go along with trump for the court appointments - period.

Perhaps Trump is just completely brilliant. He has the Repub party backing policies they hate (tarifs) and at the same time have the Dems believing that war "to support allies" is a justification for involvement. I am amazed what this President has accomplished. Just stunning. Somehow he has built a candidacy and an executive function that is beyond party.



"

Chiromancer says

Onvacation says

Are you trying to say that Hunter didn't get a job with Burisma?

Who cares?

If nobody cares about the Biden's corruption why do people want to impeach Trump for trying to investigate?

Not expecting a cogent answer.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

she is running her shop painfully by the rules.

"You have to pass it to see what's inside it "

What's ironic is that the Left wing doesn't want racism, sexism, "White Privilege", etc. to go away. If it did, their political platform would crumble. As long as it exists somewhere, they can hold onto their hate and victimhood, and cry foul when they fail and blame someone else.

The Left can’t really talk about real policy because theirs is pathetic. Socialism? Open borders? Free shit for illegals? Pathetic.

Onvacation says

If nobody cares about the Biden's corruption why do people want to impeach Trump for trying to investigate?

You dont seriously believe Trump cares about Hunter Biden's corruption? For fucksake they told the Ukranians they didnt need to actually investigate they just needed to announce the investigation. Why you think that was?

I dont expect a cogent answer.

Chiromancer says

Onvacation says

If nobody cares about the Biden's corruption why do people want to impeach Trump for trying to investigate?

You dont seriously believe Trump cares about Hunter Biden's corruption? For fucksake they told the Ukranians they didnt need to actually investigate they just needed to announce the investigation. Why you think that was?

I dont expect a cogent answer.

So if not wanting to investigate the Bidens, why is Trump being impeached?

Still waiting for a cogent answer.

When is CNN going to announce that Hunter Biden was entrapped by Trump, who bribed Ukraine to bribe Biden?

FREE JOE AND HUNTER BIDEN!

rdm says

Onvacation says

why is Trump being impeached?

You know why and I have written it before and for you I believe. If it was any Dem doing what he did you would be having a shit hemorrhage and screaming to string him/her up. Some people just loves them some Trump, cause he fucks with the libbes or maybe they are just kind to retarded people. You hear his rant about wind power. The Dude is seriously unwell.

1. He used his office and power for try to extort a foreign government to apparently only announce "investigations" of his perceived chief political rival and an insane conspiracy theory about the 2016 election planted in his addled brain by Putin. His extortion involved among other things ordering the holding of 390 mil in approved and vitally needed aid to a country at war with his best buddy Vald. All so he could have a sound bite about Joe Biden being under investigation and "clear" Russia of 2016 interference (idiot). Sounds like what any decent law abiding Pres would do... but for some reason they call it abuse of power

2. Refusing to provide even one document and commanding those currently in or who previously served in his administration not to cooperate/testify with/to a congressional impeachment inquiry into the above. Taking the absurd position that the constitution gives him carte blanc to do what he wants without law enforcement or congressional oversight or interference. Obstruction of Congress.

IMO 2. is worse than 1. Because it will set the future course for future President whoever to do what they will. And you know it might just be a Dem. If Trump gets away with 2 like he is almost certainly going to, you think the next nut job in the office isn't going to do the same?