patrick.net

Illegals diluting the test scores?

:
You have a point. I think we know what happened.

Obviously though, it's also true that Califormia sends way more students to the best colleges and universities than any other state.

I would even bet that if you were only comparing students that went to public high schools, for comparison to other states, that California sends it's proportion or better of public school educated students to the best colleges and universities.

This phenomenon plays out at the national level too, when you compare our national educational outcomes to countries with either a much smaller underclass, or to countries where not everyone goes to school ostensibly to prepare for college.

California Isn't paying teachers enough. It doesn't have enough dual immersion Laotian teachers... Systemic Racism....

hahahahah

marcus says

You have a point. I think we know what happened.

Are you referring to undocumented immigration trends in California to explain "we know what happened" ?

"With just another trillion in tax bux, we can turn lead into gold and turn chicken shit into chicken salad! Promise!"

Remove Asian and White test scores and I'm sure we are just as good as Mexico maybe even better.

marcus says

Obviously though, it's also true that Califormia sends way more students to the best colleges and universities than any other state.

Per capita or gross number of students? I don't know the CA education system, so I'm not going to speak to it. On a per capita basis, I'd be surprised if they're much higher than other states for college admissions. And what's the qualifier for "best" universities?

At the end of the day though, even if you're right, this is the exact thing people do with Trump. Pick and choose stats. It's great that the top 5% of students are kicking ass in CA, but what about the other 95%? AD is pointing out that CA is on par with W. Virgina and Missip. That's a low bar if you've traveled to either....

WookieMan says

At the end of the day though, even if you're right, this is the exact thing people do with Trump

Not at all. You're arguing with yourself - with your projection of my comment.

My comment was only to add to the picture, not to negate entirely the OPs point.

If a middle class family (that can afford to live in a decent school district) has a motivated student they aren't going to be any worse off than in another state with respect to their child's education.

But yes, there are too many less motivated students in poorest areas, and schools don't serve those students well enough, and yes immigration and poverty are factors.

marcus says

yes immigration and poverty are factors.

Aggregated data will confirm this, even if it is viewed as being racist or xenophobic.

I would like to see the math test score data for children of undocumented immigrants.

However, public schools are not permitted to report the immigration status of its students. What is the passing rate of these students compared to other student groups ?

What is the probability of these students not relying on social welfare services and earning advanced degrees in STEM compared to other student groups ?

AD says

undocumented immigrants

BTW, it's fine to use the correct term "illegal immigrants" on patrick.net.

If the truth offends the left, that's their problem. They are being used as a tool by businesses which seek to drive down wages for poor US citizens.

Nothing against illegals as people. If I were from one of those fucked-up countries down south, I'd want to come to the US too. My problem is with the business owners and government officials and incredibly naive leftists who are directly harming the US.

Patrick says

My problem is with the business owners and government officials and incredibly naive leftists who are directly harming the US.

@Patrick,
business owners are not incredibly naive leftists. They're incredibly calculating persons who look out for their own profit only, and are really happy to have serfs with no rights work in their plantations. They also buy off gov't officials with bribes, so those are also not incredibly naive leftists. Naive leftists are the ones buying into the rhetoric of modern-day slave owners...

marcus says

But yes, there are too many less motivated students in poorest areas, and schools don't serve those students well enough, and yes immigration and poverty are factors.

I'd argue that illegals and single parent households are the biggest factors.

The Democrat party in California and across the nation have done their very best to increase the populations of both groups - and then we all act surprised at the obvious results.

marcus says

Not at all. You're arguing with yourself - with your projection of my comment.

I'm not projecting anything. Your comment was: "it's also true that Califormia sends way more students to the best colleges and universities than any other state."

If true, it doesn't matter. Case in point with Trump: "black unemployment numbers are at historic lows."

Great. Good for those black people employed and the top 5% that get into good universities. What about the others? While I'll most likely vote for Trump, the fact is he uses info/stats for a narrative, just like you did here. Black people are killing each other at alarming rates in cities like Chicago or Baltimore. And good for the tiny minority of students in CA that get into good universities, who gives a shit about the others? No one as evidenced by the OP.

What I'm saying is you can't constantly cry about Trump when you use the exact same tactic he does. Taking a fact and making it sound good doesn't mean people are not getting fucked by our education system. Just like there's a black kid getting shot daily in Chicago even though technically more of them have jobs. It's a low bar.

HEYYOU says

How did Republicans & Democrats do such a great job of adding?

Maybe we didn't need to Federalize education and make a Department of Education in 1979?

1. Teachers can't discipline students to keep a quiet learning environment. Can't even kick out grossly disruptive students any more.

2. Education is NOT the goal. Public Service Unions exist to manipulate politics and keep jobs and pensions. Education is just another duck blind for thuggish bureaucratic self interest, favors and spoils.

3. Estimates are that 50 percent of students who 'graduate' from the high schools are functionally illiterate at 2 or 3 on a scale of 6.

4. Schools are extensions of crime and gang activity.

5. Competence is punished rather than rewarded. Results are routinely and fraudulently faked to preserve 'diversity' and status quo appearances. Attempts at 'tracking' to separate promising academic students from those who should at best be in vocational training is inadequate because of appearances.

6. Students who want to learn are neither nurtured nor even physically protected. Teachers are at physical hazard from violent students/parents.

7. Split between administrators who issue grand sounding edicts from on high, from 'boots on the ground' teachers who are tasked impossibly with deploying said often absurd edicts.

8. Progressive infiltration crap that regards schools not as learning places but as State propaganda mills.

What could possibly go wrong? For the most parts, these aren't schools. They are fake places where people and children congregate at a tax money faucet.

Students who excel are already from families that value education, and a lot of education/learning outlook takes place at home rather than at the schools.

Ceffer says

They are fake places where people and children congregate at a tax money faucet.

Students who excel are already from families that value education, and a lot of education/learning outlook takes place at home rather than at the schools

This is all you needed to say.

The California school system is approaching the perfect government bureaucracy: a self sustaining, self promoting, self protecting, self perpetuating political lobby that consumes increasingly huge amounts of money with ever increasing inefficiency and ineptitude while completely abdicating the job they were chartered to do in the first place. Keep paying, Suckahs!

Of course, they will flout the usual ads showing attractive teachers in front of compliant, Potemkin diverse Hollywood children in nice suburban settings to shove the tax bowl into your belly again.

Ceffer says

Students who excel are already from families that value education, and a lot of education/learning outlook takes place at home rather than at the schools.

This is exactly right.

A corollary to this is that the best indicator of success in college is that the student has parents who showed great success in college. (This is probably less the case now than in the past, but I still bet there is a high correlation.)

Leftoids happened - a mental disorder. The bureaucracy in CA is insane with the craziest salaries the higher you go. Good teachers should be paid well but bad teachers can't be fired. The process is insane. They get a panel for many months which is impossible to fail but if they do fail then they move on to harassment/discrimination charges which keeps them on the job for another few months/years. I saw an underperforming black teacher dude accusing a white panelist teacher of sexual harassment because she tapped him on his back/shoulder when he was at the end of the rope and about to get fired and he was untouchable again for months. Fucking joke. Voting left has consequences.

socal2 says

HEYYOU says

How did Republicans & Democrats do such a great job of adding?

Maybe we didn't need to Federalize education and make a Department of Education in 1979?

Exactly, the Fed D.O.Ed is un fucking constitutional. “Left to the several states” needs to be beat into there ignorant fucking heads!

Ceffer says

Public Service Unions exist to manipulate politics and keep jobs and pensions

Pensions and retirement medical, by definition, do not constitute spending in the classroom.