patrick.net

100% agreed.

Can you claim low income for a low priced ticket yet drive a 2019 tesla?..How will they work that out?...they will need a whole new branch of govt to regulate that...lol...sounds like another lib plan that wasn't thought out.

This would be assuming government and the police are honest. A rich person with a higher fine could split the difference with whatever authority figure is involved and walk aka bribe. There is a lot more incentive to do that with a free-floating valuation of the fine as it gets quite large based on the individual's income and wealth.

The result could be more corrupting than it's worth in theoretical justice.

I know that the Scandinavian countries do this with particular offenses like drunk driving, but I don't know if they do it across the board, just with things that have potential dire results, like RichFucks driving around drunk with elan because they don't care about the fines.

So the same people cheating at reporting their income (for tax evasion) also get a reduced fine? That doesn't sound too good.

Also, it's a slippery slope... pretty soon supermarkets will charge on a curve, and medical facilities, and renting an apartment, etc. And then why would I want to bother working hard or learning useful skills? Where does the grading-on-a-curve stop?

Why not base a parking ticket price on the "cost to society." Then we'll be thrilled when people get tickets. Society isn't worse off, since the violator is paying back to overcome the damage he/she/it caused.

I know that the Scandinavian countries do this with particular offenses like drunk driving

England does that as well. I remember when I was in England, an Air Force Tech Sgt was hit with a "Drink Driving" fine based on income. It was something like $20,000 equivalent. Then there is likely to be jail time. Good thing that even in small villages, the pubs are within walking distance.

How do you think they'll get know what your ticket price should be? Give up your privacy much...

NuttBoxer says

How do you think they'll get know what your ticket price should be? Give up your privacy much...

komputodo says

Can you claim low income for a low priced ticket yet drive a 2019 tesla?..How will they work that out?...they will need a whole new branch of govt to regulate that...lol...sounds like another lib plan that wasn't thought out.

Reference your state income taxes. Same way other countries do it.

SunnyvaleCA says

So the same people cheating at reporting their income (for tax evasion) also get a reduced fine? That doesn't sound too good.

All wealthy people understate their income whenever legally possible (and sometimes illegally).

Again, if the point of fines is to discourage bad behavior, it makes no sense to charge Sally the Starbucks Worker and Francine the Financial PR Exec $50 for the same thing. Francine will continue to park her Tesla for several hours in the busy downtown meter, not giving a damn about the $50 ticket.

Francine will continue to park her Tesla for several hours in the busy downtown meter, not giving a damn about the $50 ticket.

Proof of that is when people use the Dulles Greenway, a HOV highway in Northern VA. All those rich DC types do not mind paying $150 to use the HOV at peak.

Absolutely against it. Fines are supposed to be for cost of harm or injury not a sliding scale where middle class gets fucked more and more.

As long as it costs $500 million for Bloomberg

Ideally there are no fines and no taxes (or everything low and flat). But it's better to have progressive fines than progressive taxes.

NuttBoxer says

How do you think they'll get know what your ticket price should be? Give up your privacy much...

That's a good point but they already have all that info, no matter what you do.

You support being audited every time you speed? O do you expect honest speeders?

Tenpoundbass says

You support being audited every time you speed? O do you expect honest speeders?

Shit dude, if you get a divorce, they subpeona your Expressway Tolls to see where you've been.

The horse has left the Ohio barn and run across the country to Wyoming at this point.

If you're not an illegal, they have everything. You'd be shocked at what some police departments can bring up on their dashboard by running your plates.

NoCoupForYou says

If you're not an illegal, they have everything. You'd be shocked at what some police departments can bring up on their dashboard by running your plates.

Yup. I've said it in past threads, facial recognition is next. If you have a drivers license (photo ID), government will be able to track you through intergovernmental agreements. Municipalities and counties will be sharing this information. The cameras are already advanced enough. I've physically seen a county "war room" for "tracking" traffic and "snow conditions." This isn't bull shit. They can already do it and this is a collar county of Chicago. Delusional to think you can retain privacy if you drive a car and hold a valid DL.

NoCoupForYou says

state income taxes

My state income tax is 0.0000 :)

NoCoupForYou says

Shit dude, if you get a divorce, they subpeona your Expressway Tolls to see where you've been.

That's because you have a contractual obligation with another legal party, the person you're divorcing.

I'm not ready to marry the State, that's why Bernie will never be President, we'll never be a Socialist country, and our Justice system will never be a Social Justice System.
BTW I support a flat tax on everyone. If nobody had loopholes, then everyone pays their taxes. And we use it for roads and the betterment of the Republic common areas and infrastructure. And if the Liberals can handle it, I don't mind Social nets for those in need, but not for the lazy and shiftless.

Sorry I'm not showing my tax returns every time I get a seat belt violation, people like you enable Bernie Sanders and the shithead Antifa that think they are entitled to a SJW Utopia.
They don't fucking work and they plan on everyone else suffering and jumping through the hoops.

NoCoupForYou says

$100 could be the difference between having regular meals the last week of the month, or seeing a doctor for a poor person. For a financial sector employee, it's simply an ordinary lunch out. The pain isn't equal.

And you're out of your fucking mind if you think Schiff, Pelosi, DWS, Maxine Waters and the Liberal Mayors in those towns would allow that full $100 to make it to a poor person's plate. Those Meals on Wheels, and Feeding South Florida outreaches, are funded through corporate and private donations, while our Representatives use ear marked socialist money to pay people to fuck Trump and his supporters over.

Absolutely dreaming if you think Pelosi is cooking up a pot of beans for poor.

Tenpoundbass says

NoCoupForYou says

Shit dude, if you get a divorce, they subpeona your Expressway Tolls to see where you've been.

That's because you have a contractual obligation with another legal party, the person you're divorcing.

I'm not ready to marry the State, that's why Bernie will never be President, we'll never be a Socialist country, and our Justice system will never be a Social Justice System.
BTW I support a flat tax on everyone. If nobody had loopholes, then everyone pays their taxes. And we use it for roads and the betterment of the Republic common areas and infrastructure. And if the Liberals can handle it, I don't mind Social nets for those in need, but not for the lazy and shiftless.

Sorry I'm not showing my tax returns every time I get a seat belt violation, people like you enable Bernie Sanders and the shithead Antifa that think they are entitled to a SJW Utopia.
They don't...

The privacy issue is very relevant and may make this not feasible if there's no other way without revealing too much info (they already have that info, but not necessarily the cop). However it's a fair point that if you're not making much money a simple ticket in CA, esp. SF can bankrupt you. Ok you could tell them to leave SF or CA to lower their risk of bankruptcy. Having to pay close to $700 for getting your car towed because you misread a sign shouldn't be legal in SF, neither should be $100 for street cleaning or overstaying a meter or max parking hours, or not curbing your wheels.

mell says

The privacy issue is very relevant and may make this not feasible if there's no other way without revealing too much info (they already have that info, but not necessarily the cop).

Your face linked to your SS# is the biggest problem. 3rd party vendors are ALREADY doing this for police and government. Your face is going to be the new fingerprint and you have ZERO choice if it gets used/recorded/stored/etc. This isn't paranoia, but we are probably 1 or 2 steps away from 1984 being real life.

Tenpoundbass says

Sorry I'm not showing my tax returns every time I get a seat belt violation, people like you enable Bernie Sanders and the shithead Antifa that think they are entitled to a SJW Utopia.

Take a look at what cops can access right from their dashboard computers.

And they can always cite you there, while the Courts calculate your fine based on income, that's the workaround. No cop sees your income tax.

Think the traffic courts can't get state income taxes at the least?

Been in Georgia - not California - for 6 years already.

https://www.ajc.com/blog/investigations/can-traffic-court-grab-tax-refund-yes-can/MyW1TG6ENzgoqqaLMF0W6O/

Tenpoundbass says

And you're out of your fucking mind if you think Schiff, Pelosi, DWS, Maxine Waters and the Liberal Mayors in those towns would allow that full $100 to make it to a poor person's plate. Those Meals on Wheels, and Feeding South Florida outreaches, are funded through corporate and private donations, while our Representatives use ear marked socialist money to pay people to fuck Trump and his supporters over.

Nobody thinks that money is going to Meals on Wheels.

The point is whether Daryl the Denny's Employee at $11/hr should be paying the same $1000 after tow, impound, fine that Salazar the Strip Club owner with the last Liquor License in Broward pays.

Daryl will have to wait and take hours just to get to work for the next 14 days until he can scratch up the money to get his car out; Salazar takes an Uber and calls his Uncle Jose who works in the Broward County Building.

Half a month's after tax take home pay for Daryl, one weekend's coke budget for Salazar.

Unequal punishment. Why not fine them an average workday's pay? Still rougher on Daryl, but far more fair.

Just a tax increase onto the middle class.

Here’s why this idea has entered the discussion.
Poor and undocumented people can’t afford high traffic fines so they just don’t pay. They just disappear into the urban miasma and never do pay. And now that misdemeanor crimes and civil infractions can’t get you jail time in California, how do they ever make these deadbeats pay up?
Answer: they can’t! But the state still wants its money so they are going to try bargaining the fines down to something that these poor fucks can and might actually pay. Better to get something than to get absolutely nothing!

Shaman says

Here’s why this idea has entered the discussion.
Poor and undocumented people can’t afford high traffic fines so they just don’t pay. They just disappear into the urban miasma and never do pay. And now that misdemeanor crimes and civil infractions can’t get you jail time in California, how do they ever make these deadbeats pay up?
Answer: they can’t! But the state still wants its money so they are going to try bargaining the fines down to something that these poor fucks can and might actually pay. Better to get something than to get absolutely nothing!

Plus the following: While increasing fines on middle class to make up the difference. Ultimate equality left adored, where everyone is equally at the bottom.

Can't pay -> Non Appearance in Court -> Multiple Bench Warrant -> Jail -> Quasi-Slave Labor for Corp-Gov Partnership in Prison -> Release months later

For Americans, not usually illegals. Works this way in quite a few States. Great way for counties,pols, and certain industries to make bank! Right down to calling mom from prison still costs like $1/minute two counties away thanks to juicy deals between AT&T and the Prison/Politicians.

We're not talking about shoplifting Nikes or robbing liquor stores, but simple shit like driving with a busted taillight Billy Bob can't fix because he can barely afford to keep the car he needs to get to work covered by insurance, much less drop $300 to get a taillight fix. Or it's between that or making his child support payment. Once he gets a few citations, bench warrant, then slavery. Not cool. Maybe drop the fines or make them voluntarily substituted with Free Labor, say mowing the Median or mopping the Court House Hallway Floor for a few hours.

Not 5 years ago, our Masters were talking about letting bald tired and worn brake-padded Mexican Trucks that passed Mexican Federale Inspection (hahahaha, $10) drive everywhere on US Highways. While American Billy Bob is getting tossed in the Huskow and made to make phone calls for 50 cents an hour and being charged $1/minute to call his son in the next county by AT&T prison phones.

mell says

it's better to have progressive fines than progressive taxes.

But we, of course, will get both.

Fuck that.

TEA!