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105   mell   ignore (4)   2020 Mar 29, 12:55pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ThreeBays says
Patrick says
Days after beginning a large scale double blinded trial, the so called gold standard, France has now reached the conclusion chloroquine is recommended to treat corona.


That's great news.

One issue is there was no double blinded trial data here, and this article is just referencing Didier Raoult's badly fudged study. https://forbetterscience.com/2020/03/26/chloroquine-genius-didier-raoult-to-save-the-world-from-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR02EUmH1FUjNVZXWrAGB0bfzpCDQ-v0l5Wx7WzywVwCVyUdP1LNhflDlDM

Why are chloroquine studies only popping up from fairly shady sources?


If the French and other European countries are using it now I doubt the studies aren't truthful.
106   ThreeBays   ignore (1)   2020 Mar 29, 1:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
If the French and other European countries are using it now I doubt the studies aren't truthful.


The French have approved it for use for certain COVID-19 patients. Is there more information?

https://www.france24.com/en/20200329-french-expert-says-second-study-shows-malaria-drug-helps-fight-coronavirus


Fakemed, a group of scientists against fake news in health, lambasted the 68-year-old professor.

After Raoult released his latest findings on the internet over the weekend, Professor Francois Balloux of University College, London, tried to dampen talk that the drug could be a silver bullet.

"No, (this is) not 'huge' I'm afraid," he said on Twitter.

"This is an observational study (i.e. not controlled) following 80 patients with fairly mild symptoms. The majority of patients recover form #COVID19 infection, with or without #Hchloroquine and #Azithromycin treatment."

Statistician Tim Morris of the university's clinical trials unit was even more scathing.

"If hydroxychloroquine turns out to be useful," he tweeted, "it's a shame that this group will be praised as heroes and prophets instead of held to account for the misinformation and self-promotion they've been churning out at a critical time."

Dr Philippe Gautret, who was part of the team behind Raoult's latest findings, admitted that they only used the combination of drugs on "patients who had not been showing signs of being seriously ill after admission" to the hospital.
107   mell   ignore (4)   2020 Mar 29, 1:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ThreeBays says
mell says
If the French and other European countries are using it now I doubt the studies aren't truthful.


The French have approved it for use for certain COVID-19 patients. Is there more information?

https://www.france24.com/en/20200329-french-expert-says-second-study-shows-malaria-drug-helps-fight-coronavirus


Fakemed, a group of scientists against fake news in health, lambasted the 68-year-old professor.

After Raoult released his latest findings on the internet over the weekend, Professor Francois Balloux of University College, London, tried to dampen talk that the drug could be a silver bullet.

"No, (this is) not 'huge' I'm afraid," he said on Twitter.

"This is an observational study (i.e. not controlled) following...


That must be why MDs are stockpiling it for their families here in the US while telling patients it's not effective. From all the material I read so far I'm convinced it's effective enough to make a big difference.
108   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2020 Mar 29, 1:15pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
If the French and other European countries are using it now I doubt the studies aren't truthful.


Pretty sure they are corner cutting, but also only prescribing this to at risk patients for whom CV is a very possible death sentence.

I wouldnt expect the proper studies to be completed for months
109   ThreeBays   ignore (1)   2020 Mar 29, 1:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I'm hopeful this is real because that would save a lot of lives and get us back to normal, but I'm not finding any material that's very convincing that this is a silver bullet yet.

This French guy's study isn't controlled or large enough to really tell much.

Dr. Vladmir Zelenko's data is also pretty weird. It sounds like he did most of his protocol between Tuesday and Thursday last week, and by Monday he was already declaring victory and writing a letter to Trump. Weird A/F.
110   mell   ignore (4)   2020 Mar 29, 1:25pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
mell says
If the French and other European countries are using it now I doubt the studies aren't truthful.


Pretty sure they are corner cutting, but also only prescribing this to at risk patients for whom CV is a very possible death sentence.

I wouldnt expect the proper studies to be completed for months


Agreed.

ThreeBays says
I'm hopeful this is real because that would save a lot of lives and get us back to normal, but I'm not finding any material that's very convincing that this is a silver bullet yet.

This French guy's study isn't controlled or large enough to really tell much.

Dr. Vladmir Zelenko's data is also pretty weird. It sounds like he did most of his protocol between Tuesday and Thursday last week, and by Monday he was already declaring victory and writing a letter to Trump. Weird A/F.


Long term studies take too much time in this scenario. It doesn't matter if it's only partially effective, if it helps keeping even just 20% of people off the ICU it's a huge win.
111   socal2   ignore (1)   2020 Mar 29, 1:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

We should know alot more this week with all of the trials going on in New York.

This thread is VERY encouraging from one of the doctors treating hundreds of paitents with it with ZERO deaths so far..
https://twitter.com/KMCRadio/status/1243439036917841920
112   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2020 Mar 29, 1:31pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

According to that NY doctor, if you are younger than 60 and healthy, you get to fight through your resulting CV illness. You wont get this drug unless your symptoms progress to a dangerous level. It sounds miserable, and takes about 10 days from start of symptoms until it subsides
113   ThreeBays   ignore (1)   2020 Mar 29, 2:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

socal2 says
This thread is VERY encouraging from one of the doctors treating hundreds of paitents with it with ZERO deaths so far..
https://twitter.com/KMCRadio/status/1243439036917841920


That's just Dr. Vladimir Zelenko. Very fishy.
115   theoakman   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 29, 7:32pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Why do people think it's a far fetched idea that an anti-viral medication would have a positive effect on faster recovery?
116   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 29, 8:26pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

theoakman says
Why do people think it's a far fetched idea that an anti-viral medication would have a positive effect on faster recovery?


Because Trump suggested it.
117   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 29, 9:15pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

https://in.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-novartis/novartis-ceo-says-malaria-drug-is-biggest-hope-against-coronavirus-sonntagszeitung-idINKBN21G06O?utm_source=patrick.net

ZURICH (Reuters) - Novartis Chief Executive Vas Narasimhan said his Sandoz generics unit’s malaria, lupus and arthritis drug hydroxychloroquine is the company’s biggest hope against the coronavirus, Swiss newspaper SonntagsZeitung reported on Sunday. ...

“Pre-clinical studies in animals as well as the first data from clinical studies show that hydroxychloroquine kills the coronavirus,” Narasimhan told the newspaper. “We’re working with Swiss hospitals on possible treatment protocols for the clinical use of the drug, but it’s too early to say anything definitively.”

He said the company is currently looking for additional active drug ingredients to make more hydroxychloroquine, should clinical trials be successful.
119   mell   ignore (4)   2020 Mar 29, 9:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says
You guys are paranoiac cultists.
There is a method to test drugs and doctors insist on following the method.
If you don't like modern medicine, visit your witch doctor.


Certainly not during a pandemic. You naturally try and give leeway to known antivirals and skip the usually required lengthy clinical trials. When your house is on fire you don't wait for a certified water hose, you throw at it what you have. Btw. one of Trumps first signing was the 21st century cures act which allows terminally ill or disabled patients to try potential new cures without waiting for years of phase 3 trials. Not everything orange man does is bad and he may win on chloroquine as well. There's a reason MDs have been stockpiling it for their families while telling patients it's too risky.
120   richwicks   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 29, 9:35pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says
He shouldn't propose unproven drugs. That was a very STUPID thing to do.


Let science take care of itself. It is a hypothesis that he's presented. We'll find out in time if it's correct or incorrect. Let the medical and scientific community report on the efficacy.
122   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 29, 9:45pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/an-update-on-the-coronavirus-treatment-11585509827


In the fight against Covid-19 though we might look forward in doom, one day we will look backward in awe. In an article last week, I discussed a promising drug combination to treat the disease. There is now new data supporting this treatment. Since then, Kansas City area physicians, including Joe Brewer, Dan Hinthorn and me, continue to treat many patients, and some have shown improvement. Major medical centers including the University of Washington and Mass General have added hydroxychloroquine to treatment options. So here’s an update, a response to some questions that have come up, and suggestions based on the latest...

Clinical information has also emerged from Covid treatment. During the initial Chinese outbreak, Wuhan doctors observed that patients with lupus—a disease for which HC is a common treatment—did not seem to develop Covid-19. Of 178 hospital patients who tested positive, none had lupus and none were on HC. None of this Wuhan hospital’s dermatology department’s 80 lupus patients were infected with the novel coronavirus. The Wuhan doctors hypothesized that this may be due to long-term use of HC. They treated 20 Covid-19 patients with HC. Their result: “Clinical symptoms improve significantly in 1 to 2 days. After five days of chest CT examination, 19 cases showed significant absorption improvement.” ...

The World Health Organization lists both HC and AZ as essential medicines, “considered to be the most effective and safe to meet the most important needs in a health system.” These drugs have been in use for many years—HC since 1955 and AZ since 1988. Only the combination is new. For now it isn’t well understood why the mix is so effective.

The clinical information service Lexicomp lists the interaction between HC and AZ as Category B, which means the majority of patients require no special caution. Long-term HC use can have adverse effects. Chronic use can cause eye problems, Heartbeat arrhythmia is occasionally observed. Increased electrocardiogram tracking may be appropriate for patients at risk of the latter effect. Potential mental-health effects should be closely observed.

All drugs have side effects, and HC’s overall record is safe. Yes, this is an “off label” use. But that isn’t unusual, either. One study showed 21% of U.S. prescriptions were for off-label use.

These drugs are still needed to treat malaria, lupus and other diseases, which makes it important not to exhaust supplies treating Covid-19 patients. Yet this is a historic pandemic, and treatment with HC and AZ shows considerable promise. That is reason to increase supplies quickly. ...

For my entire career, I have taken a conservative approach to medicine. I don’t want to give false or premature hope. All of this is subject to further refinement as more information arrives. But likewise I can’t ignore the available evidence. This appears to be the best widely available option for treating Covid-19 and not merely easing the suffering from the disease. It would be irresponsible not to pursue this option aggressively.


Gosh, sounding more and more like hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin does in fact help. A lot.

#TrumpPills
123   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 29, 10:13pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

An as-yet unpublished letter:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1871402120300515

A Chinese study involving more than 100 patients of COVID-19 found chloroquine superior to the control group in reducing symptom duration, exacerbation of pneumonia including radiological improvement and promoting virus-negative seroconversion without any severe side effects [18]. This represents the first human trial ever conducted with chloroquine against COVID-19. Although the detailed results of this trial are not yet published and only available in a letter form, interestingly, this early result led China to include chloroquine in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 pneumonia. Moreover, The National Health Commission of the People's Republic of China recommended inclusion of chloroquine in the next version of the Guidelines for the Prevention, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Pneumonia Caused by COVID-19. In this study, chloroquine was given in dose of 500 mg of chloroquine twice daily in mild to severe COVID-19 pneumonia. ...

Although there are sporadic case reports of chloroquine-induced cardiomyopathy and reversible heart failure in the literature, many studies and large meta-analysis conducted in patients with rheumatoid arthritis pointed to a reduced cardiovascular risk with both these compounds [40]. Nevertheless, since both the drug has potential to prolog QTc, a baseline ECG should be done in patients with established cardiovascular disease.
124   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 29, 10:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ChicagoAnalytic
@AnalyticChicago

Quick update-- news that FDA is granting emergency authorization 4 hospitals 2 use #chloroquine & #Hydroxychloroquine w hospitalized patients seems to b signaling at least a slight de-escalation of circumstances, and giving #markets an early bump off lows


Here's the FDA approval note:

https://www.fda.gov/media/136537/download
125   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 29, 10:17pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Article from 2005 showing "potent" chloroquine efficacy against the related SARS virus:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/
126   NoCoupForYou   ignore (5)   2020 Mar 30, 7:28am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

r/Coronavirus commenters, two weeks ago, before Trump mentioned Treatment. "Superior Technocratic Belgium is using Chloroquine! It must be good! Why don't we? Big Pharma, Backward AmeriKKKa!"

https://archive.fo/W9Xjk
128   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2020 Mar 30, 8:13am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Virginia Commonwealth University is now doing clinical trials using remdesivir, an antiviral medication previously used experimentally to treat the Ebola virus. Several VCU Health System patients with moderate to severe cases of COVID-19 have been treated with remdesivir with very encouraging results. Still early in testing, though.

Redesivir was invented by Gilead Sciences Inc, which is one of your smart California companies. I suspect that throughout the world, other older drugs used to treat various viral diseases are being dusted off and tried against COVID-19.
129   Rin   ignore (7)   2020 Mar 30, 2:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
sporadic case reports of chloroquine-induced cardiomyopathy


What's silly about this, whenever the press reports on it, is that any doctor can give a baseline EKG and re-run it after a patient takes 100 mg to determine its safety for a given patient. If the patient can't handle it then unfortunately, he's one of the unlucky 1% who can't get the therapy. In other words, for the other 99%, they would be fine. And thus, the virus' mortality will be 0.034 (according to WHO but debatable) x 0.01 or 0.00034
130   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 30, 8:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/30/twitter-removes-tweet-reporting-hydroxychloroquine-as-treatment-for-wuhan-virus/

Twitter removed a tweet from Fox New host Laura Ingraham that suggested hospitals using hydroxychloroquine as treatment for the Wuhan coronavirus are showing promising results, despite the FDA’s approval of the drug for emergency use.

“Lenox Hill in New York among many hospitals already using hydroxychloroquine with very promising results. One patient was described as ‘Lazarus’ who was seriously ill from Covid-19, already released,” Ingraham tweeted.
131   joshuatrio   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 31, 4:27am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick, thanks for staying on top of this. This seems like a reasonable solution to CV. Nice to a know a old and cheap prescription actually works on this.
132   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2020 Mar 31, 6:22am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

joshuatrio says
Patrick, thanks for staying on top of this. This seems like a reasonable solution to CV. Nice to a know a old and cheap prescription actually works on this.


Self quarantine would break down if they announced a $20 cure.
133   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 31, 7:21am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It's still not certain, but anyway, it doesn't have to be a miracle drug to end the problem. It just has to shorten hospital stays.

Of course the media will still stream doom anyway, because:

1. Orange Man Bad
2. they love the attention
134   NoCoupForYou   ignore (5)   2020 Mar 31, 10:38am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Of course the media will still stream doom anyway, because:

1. Orange Man Bad
2. they love the attention

3. Immanentize the Eschaton

The Spectator Article you posted is clear evidence the media alters the presentation of "facts" to the narrative.

https://spectator.us/early-coronavirus-coverage-lazy-media-thirst-political-correctness/
135   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 31, 12:41pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

NoCoupForYou says
Immanentize the Eschaton


Thanks, didn't know that one.

In political theory and theology, to immanentize the eschaton means trying to bring about the eschaton in the immanent world. In all these contexts it means "trying to make that which belongs to the afterlife happen here and now".
136   rdm   ignore (2)   2020 Mar 31, 4:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Why do people think it's a far fetched idea that an anti-viral medication would have a positive effect on faster recovery?


Because Trump suggested it.


Yeah you are probably right. The problem being when you give out constant disinformation, wrong information, made up information, wishful out loud thinking, if you happen to say something that is true no one believes you or at the least are skeptical, as they should be.

To do a really valid study would mean denying this treatment (they get a placebo) to a certain group of patients (large group) while treating a very similarly matched large group. Similar demographics and underlying health conditions of each group of patients; as much as possible everything the same. All giving informed consent. Then adjusting for any variations after observing the outcomes to come to a conclusion. That is probably not going to happen under current conditions.
137   socal2   ignore (1)   2020 Mar 31, 4:20pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

rdm says
Yeah you are probably right. The problem being when you give out constant disinformation, wrong information, made up information, wishful out loud thinking, if you happen to say something that is true no one believes you or at the least are skeptical, as they should be.


Is that why our Liberal Media is one of the least trusted institutions in America?
138   theoakman   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 31, 5:51pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

rdm says
Patrick says
Why do people think it's a far fetched idea that an anti-viral medication would have a positive effect on faster recovery?


Because Trump suggested it.


Yeah you are probably right. The problem being when you give out constant disinformation, wrong information, made up information, wishful out loud thinking, if you happen to say something that is true no one believes you or at the least are skeptical, as they should be.

To do a really valid study would mean denying this treatment (they get a placebo) to a certain group of patients (large group) while treating a very similarly matched large group. Similar demographics and underlying health conditions of each group of patients; as much as possible everything the same. All giving informed consent. Then adjusting for any variations after observing the outcomes to come to a conclusion. That is proba...


Fact remains, there are groups out there that literally are against trying a drug that is likely to help that has been proven over decades to be safe for consumption. Needless to say, the initial data looks promising, and I'm pretty sure, that every other positive news that comes in on this matter will be denied or ignored by certain factions because they are incapable of taking the same side as someone on a single issue.
139   NoCoupForYou   ignore (5)   2020 Mar 31, 6:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

rdm says
Yeah you are probably right. The problem being when you give out constant disinformation, wrong information, made up information, wishful out loud thinking, if you happen to say something that is true no one believes you or at the least are skeptical, as they should be.


You mean like renegotiating NAFTA is impossible and would be a disaster, that increasing domestic production is impossible and will be a disaster, or that nobody can stand up to Mighty China, and even if they could it would be a world crisis?

Hell, the only World Crisis to the Clerisy in late January and February was that the "Real Problem" of restricting Travel to China and calling it "Wuhan or China Virus" would cause a wave of attacks on Chinese Restaurants across America in an orgy of rampant, violent Xenophobia.

Until this world crisis - started by Chinese Mismanagement and aggressive silencing of whistleblowers in China - everything the Andrea Mitchells of the world assured us would happen, didn't. In fact, the opposite was occurring.
140   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 31, 6:34pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

theoakman says
Fact remains, there are groups out there that literally are against trying a drug that is likely to help that has been proven over decades to be safe for consumption. Needless to say, the initial data looks promising, and I'm pretty sure, that every other positive news that comes in on this matter will be denied or ignored by certain factions because they are incapable of taking the same side as someone on a single issue.


Their hatred for Trump is clearly pathological, shortening their own lives, and putting the lives of everyone else at risk.

Seriously, TDS is pretty damn close to psychosis.
143   NoCoupForYou   ignore (5)   2020 Mar 31, 7:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Guaranteed News Headline 30 days from now:

"How Covid-19 hurt Gender Non-confirming, Alternative Lifestyle, and Minorities the worst."
144   Patrick   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 31, 8:55pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Lol, now the Democratic Nevada governor has also reversed his ban on hydroxychloroquine for outpatients.

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