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Soooo.... When do we stop paying teachers??


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2020 Apr 1, 9:10am   7,038 views  71 comments

by WookieMan   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

Not sure if any of you are dealing with this yet. This remote learning shit with the kids is absolute bullshit. Our district is so ill prepared for this. Given modern tech, I would have thought they had a plan. I mean we're right in the zone for tornados, blizzards and yes even earthquakes here in IL.

A school could easily be down for months (well not blizzard, days for that) with these disasters. They didn't have a plan? WTF? What are we paying them for? I'm pretty pissed as a tax payer right now. Sick of government workers getting bailed out every time everyone else takes a hit. WE don't have a choice in paying taxes. It's bullshit.

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1   Bd6r   2020 Apr 1, 9:16am  

I have to teach my class online at university because of corona, and students (a) do not log in to listen (ca. 40% attend as opposed to 80-90% for in-person class), and (b) even ones who tune in and listen do not get more complex things as I do not get feedback which I have for in-person class (if they become too quiet or too noisy, I know they do not understand etc). Which once again shows that "online education" is a complete scam.

I suggested that our school cancel a few weeks of classes now and then simply stick these weeks back at end of semester. But that was denied because it would eat into SUMMER TUITION revenue, showing that schools nowadays are about PROFIT! and not learning and education. This is a clusterfuck of yuuge proportions.
2   socal2   2020 Apr 1, 9:17am  

They are now saying in California to not expect the schools to open back up until next Fall.

Right now they are doing 3 days a week on Zoom for about an hour and that should ramp up with daily lesson plans and homework next week.

I will give them another week or two to get their shit together before I get pissed.
3   joshuatrio   2020 Apr 1, 9:19am  

My sister is a teacher in the northeast and she's blown away by how much time she has now. She said there is very little student feedback and that she'll teach her lessons, do parent teacher conferences (for those who actually care), and log off. By 11am she's done.
4   Bd6r   2020 Apr 1, 9:20am  

socal2 says
I will give them another week or two to get their shit together

They won't get their shit together, which brings to a logical question - why the fuck we need all of these high-paid administrators if hey are helpless and stupid at time of crisis? Our University administrators act as if they have never taught a class - they suggest preposterous solutions that are not based in reality.
5   joshuatrio   2020 Apr 1, 9:20am  

My sister is a teacher in the northeast and she's blown away by how much time she has now. She said there is very little student feedback and that she'll teach her lessons, do parent teacher conferences (for those who actually care), and log off. By 11am she's done.
6   Bd6r   2020 Apr 1, 9:22am  

joshuatrio says
My sister is a teacher in the northeast and she's blown away by how much time she has now. She said there is very little student feedback and that she'll teach her lessons, do parent teacher conferences (for those who actually care), and log off. By 11am she's done.

Exactly - before I had students coming in my office all the time, asking questions about more complex issues and so on. Now it is a poorly attended online lecture and that's it. No one learns anything. I pretend that I teach them, they pretend that they learn, and school collects tuition while not providing any service.
7   WookieMan   2020 Apr 1, 9:23am  

rd6B says
I have to teach my class online at university because of corona, and students (a) do not log in to listen (ca. 40% attend as opposed to 80-90% for in-person class), and (b) even ones who tune in and listen do not get more complex things as I do not get feedback which I have for in-person class (if they become too quiet or too noisy, I know they do not understand etc). Which once again shows that "online education" is a complete scam.

I suggested that our school cancel a few weeks of classes now and then simply stick these weeks back at end of semester. But that was denied because it would eat into SUMMER TUITION revenue, showing that schools nowadays are about PROFIT! and not learning and education. This is a clusterfuck of yuuge proportions.

And don't get me wrong. I appreciate what teachers do. It's not easy work. Summer is one thing with the kids, but this is a whole different thing.

I just feel like most non-government workers always get shit on during times like this and the gov. workers never share in the pain.
8   Bd6r   2020 Apr 1, 9:25am  

WookieMan says
And don't get me wrong. I appreciate what teachers do. It's not easy work. Summer is one thing with the kids, but this is a whole different thing.

I just feel like most non-government workers always get shit on during times like this and the gov. workers never share in the pain.

No problem, the issue, unfortunately, is the YUUGE clueless bureaucracy of teaching that saps off taxpayer money without providing any service other than paperwork generation. If it would be axed, cost of school, whether university or primary, would drop twice.
9   socal2   2020 Apr 1, 9:26am  

rd6B says
They won't get their shit together, which brings to a logical question - why the fuck we need all of these high-paid administrators if hey are helpless and stupid at time of crisis? Our University administrators act as if they have never taught a class - they suggest preposterous solutions that are not based in reality.


If there is any good to come out of all this Wuhan Virus crap, I hope that it exposes alot of the useless jobs, particularly in education with all of the administrators and diversity bullshit.
10   Bd6r   2020 Apr 1, 9:29am  

socal2 says
If there is any good to come out of all this Wuhan Virus crap, I hope that it exposes alot of the useless jobs, particularly in education with all of the administrators and diversity bullshit.

Color me pessimist, but the normal bureaucratic solution will be to move more classes online and have a few additional offices of Pandemic Coordinators that taxpayers will pay for. The only possibility would be local government reigning in schools, but then immediately they will be screamed at because if you cut a bureaucrat position at school, you definitely HATE CHILDREN!
11   WookieMan   2020 Apr 1, 10:00am  

rd6B says
socal2 says
If there is any good to come out of all this Wuhan Virus crap, I hope that it exposes alot of the useless jobs, particularly in education with all of the administrators and diversity bullshit.

Color me pessimist, but the normal bureaucratic solution will be to move more classes online and have a few additional offices of Pandemic Coordinators that taxpayers will pay for. The only possibility would be local government reigning in schools, but then immediately they will be screamed at because if you cut a bureaucrat position at school, you definitely HATE CHILDREN!

Administrators and their pay is obscene. I've worked in an industry where I likely had to deal with more work than they ever have, instead of being able to hire someone else to do the work for them. Must be nice.

I have no problem paying teachers. It's just tough right now seeing a lot of people I know not get paid and teachers are and probably will be paid for the rest of the school year regardless if my district closes down. Rarely do I say a line like this, but it's not fair.

For K-12 there are already robust online home schooling options. It's hard to justify paying two of my kids teachers, support staff and administration probably on average of $50-60,000 to do a half assed attempt at remote learning. It should have been planned for and when meetings are allowed again, I'm probably going to suggest the superintendent resigns or be fired. He's had some other newsworthy fuck ups, so not interested in doxxing my actual town, but I'm at my wits end with the guy.
12   RC2006   2020 Apr 1, 11:31am  

This whole thing is utter bullshit, straight from the get go we should have switched summer vacation with current quarter. This is all bullshit teachers are still getting paid to do jack online, it will be so fucked up that they will have to work right through the summer for more pay. My kids finish the online bullshit in less than 2hrs, shit their homework was 2hrs before all of this. Watch dropout rates skyrocket after kids are on this crap for half a year. This will have long lasting repercussions which will just amplify next year when they do it again next year because there will not be a vaccine in time. I hope parents are doing their best teaching their children real life skills with this time, but the cynic in me bets most kids will be watching TV and playing video games.
13   Bd6r   2020 Apr 1, 11:39am  

RC2006 says
Watch dropout rates skyrocket after kids are on this crap for half a year.

No, they will just pass everyone so that stats are not bad, and that administrator's incompetence does not show.
14   Bd6r   2020 Apr 1, 11:42am  

RC2006 says
straight from the get go we should have switched summer vacation with current quarter.

that is logical, which is why it will never be done. Just have 3-5 wks of summer now, and add 3-5 weeks additionally to classes in June. Cost is the same and kids actually learn.
15   Shaman   2020 Apr 1, 11:48am  

I feel like the kids teachers have just dumped their responsibility for teaching into the laps of parents (who have to work) and can just sit back and issue assignments without ever teaching the kids how to do the assignments. The parents have to teach them how to do the work, encourage them to do the work, Pre-grade/correct the work, and make sure submissions happen. The teacher just assigns and does final grading.
At least that is how it’s been working with my second grader. My fifth grader is much more independent and his teacher gives them work and feedback every day. And i have not idea how it’s going with my seventh grader. She doesn’t like to share about her classes
16   WookieMan   2020 Apr 1, 11:49am  

RC2006 says
I hope parents are doing their best teaching their children real life skills with this time, but the cynic in me bets most kids will be watching TV and playing video games

Some will do that and others won't. My kids are for sure playing that shit more than ever. But we're still doing what we need to above and beyond what the school is asking.

I hate video games but my sons are interacting in a way that's better than nothing considering physical limitations. So we're fine allowing a little more time on the iPad/computer/xbox. I don't like it, but being social could be as important as the education during these times. It's not fucking normal. My wife is officially going bonkers. 30 more days of this minimum. Ugh.....
17   RC2006   2020 Apr 1, 11:54am  

Shaman says
I feel like the kids teachers have just dumped their responsibility for teaching into the laps of parents (who have to work) and can just sit back and issue assignments without ever teaching the kids how to do the assignments. The parents have to teach them how to do the work, encourage them to do the work, Pre-grade/correct the work, and make sure submissions happen. The teacher just assigns and does final grading.
At least that is how it’s been working with my second grader. My fifth grader is much more independent and his teacher gives them work and feedback every day. And i have not idea how it’s going with my seventh grader. She doesn’t like to share about her classes


Our kids are all in the same grades and in sounds exactly the same.
18   WookieMan   2020 Apr 1, 11:55am  

Shaman says
At least that is how it’s been working with my second grader. My fifth grader is much more independent and his teacher gives them work and feedback every day. And i have not idea how it’s going with my seventh grader. She doesn’t like to share about her classes

1st and 3rd here. Hands on unfortunately at those ages. And add to it that my wife and I don't see eye to eye. They're going to cancel the rest of the year and probably make them redo it or some other variation of that. So any effort put in right now is bull shit. Can't send them to a camp or sports activity. Fuck. This is fucking annoying right now.
19   RWSGFY   2020 Apr 1, 11:55am  

FUCKING NOW!!!!

What they do is much less than sites like khanacademy.org are doing and that site is fucking FREE.
20   RC2006   2020 Apr 1, 11:58am  

TEOTWAWKI says
FUCKING NOW!!!!

What they do is much less than sites like khanacademy.org are doing and that site is fucking FREE.


That's where my fifth grader told to go!
21   theoakman   2020 Apr 1, 12:03pm  

WookieMan says
Not sure if any of you are dealing with this yet. This remote learning shit with the kids is absolute bullshit. Our district is so ill prepared for this. Given modern tech, I would have thought they had a plan. I mean we're right in the zone for tornados, blizzards and yes even earthquakes here in IL.

A school could easily be down for months (well not blizzard, days for that) with these disasters. They didn't have a plan? WTF? What are we paying them for? I'm pretty pissed as a tax payer right now. Sick of government workers getting bailed out every time everyone else takes a hit. WE don't have a choice in paying taxes. It's bullshit.


As a teacher, I can tell you this. It's a catch 22. If I try to run a rigorous classroom, the parents and the students will rebel. If I run a joke of a class, everyone will criticize. So there is a happy medium, and it's completely substandard with respect to the in classroom experience. Let's be honest here...there's probably not a single outcome that would have made you think that your taxes were well spent during this endeavor.

And yes, we could eliminate 75% of administrators and run even more efficiently.

I am a victim of this as well. My kids are in K and 2nd grade. They are getting zero academic work for the school. So, my wife and I have taken the role of their primary instructor as well. Bottom line, kids in elementary are going to have long lasting damage from this void of learning. Kids in middle school are probably ok and kids in high school will have gaps in certain subject areas. The math that is missed is going to have a lot of long lasting damage to a lot of people in this country. My suggestion, as a parent is this. Take the role of finding a way to get your kids to learn what they should be learning. Research what topics they should cover and find good resources for them to use. It's a pain in the ass and another 3 hours out of your day, but your kids are going to be at an advantage to the rest of the population.
22   RC2006   2020 Apr 1, 12:14pm  

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-30/coronavirus-los-angeles-schools-15000-high-school-students-absent

This should be treated the same as when a kid doesn't show up at school and they loose money.
23   Onvacation   2020 Apr 1, 12:28pm  

WookieMan says
My wife is officially going bonkers. 30 more days of this minimum.

Mine just threw her electric razor on the floor because I wouldn't let her cut the long hairs off my neck.
24   WookieMan   2020 Apr 1, 12:39pm  

theoakman says
It's a pain in the ass and another 3 hours out of your day, but your kids are going to be at an advantage to the rest of the population.

I guess I'm just surprised our district had zero plan. We live in an area where there is a tornado that wipes out a school every 5 years or so. We're prepared and taking the shit information the school is giving us and doing our best. I just assumed as a tax payer this would have been something that would have been addressed with current tech. Kind of common sense? WTF are we paying administers 6 figure salaries and something as simple as a school shut down can't be handled and coordinated well?

I actually think it's super important for kids to learn to be held accountable via online means. It's what the future is going to be as far as work accountability. The fact our educators and mainly administrators were unprepared is embarrassing. It's why they don't run businesses and get to fuck around with other people's (taxpayers) money. It sucks.
25   MisdemeanorRebel   2020 Apr 1, 12:39pm  

socal2 says
If there is any good to come out of all this Wuhan Virus crap, I hope that it exposes alot of the useless jobs, particularly in education with all of the administrators and diversity bullshit.


They'll start policing the online classrooms for microaggressions.

WookieMan says
Kind of common sense? WTF are we paying administers 6 figure salaries and something as simple as a school shut down can't be handled and coordinated well?


We will disaggregate performance-based higher-order thinking through the collaborative process.
We will revisit school-based debriefs with synergistic effects.
We will empower critical curriculum compacting within the Zone of Proximity.
We will define multidisciplinary SMART goals in data-driven schools.
We will grow group-based need-to-knows in data-driven schools.
26   EBGuy   2020 Apr 1, 12:52pm  

WookieMan says
WE don't have a choice in paying taxes.

Our school board rushed three tax measures onto the Super Tuesday ballot as they knew the Nov. presidential election would likely be crowded with city measures. They all passed; our property taxes are going up, up, UP! Online classes have been delayed due to equity issues (better all should suffer). I really doubt the tax increases would pass today (one was a parcel tax to increase teacher salaries) .
What's interesting about online instruction is the grievance studies materials will now see the light of day. I'm guessing the Educational Industrial Complex finally takes a big hit.
www.youtube.com/embed/vh-TgQ7sSDU
27   MisdemeanorRebel   2020 Apr 1, 1:09pm  

Nothing illustrates the battle between local stakeholders against a professionalized centralized bureaucracy than the Public School system.

No Eduadmin has ever explained why homeschooled kids and small evangelical school kids, taught often by much less educated parents and non-unionized, non-prof teachers, beat the shit out of Public Schools in performance, including most of the ones in snobby all-white suburban neighborhoods.
28   Shaman   2020 Apr 1, 1:27pm  

I should at least get a break on my real estate taxes since my kids aren’t getting the benefit of a blue ribbon education.
But no, those are going up this year as well.
29   rigidmember   2020 Apr 1, 1:43pm  

Shaman says
I should at least get a break on my real estate taxes since my kids aren’t getting the benefit of a blue ribbon education.
But no, those are going up this year as well.


This, I just thought of this yesterday while I was trying to work my full time job at home, take care of my kids and have them do some classwork that the public school teachers keep sending. I know we're all in this Covid19 thing together but I agree that the fact that schools are not prepared to do distance learning makes me wonder why the people responsible (administrators) are paid so much.

One thing that really pisses me off is that our preschool is requiring a 50% payment of tuition just to hold a spot for my kid. Nothing of benefit at all except that there will be a spot for my kid when things get back to normal. I'm open to spending money to help others but at least provide some benefit for the cost other than to just gouge people for their inability to save money for a rainy day.
30   WookieMan   2020 Apr 1, 2:04pm  

rigidmember says
I know we're all in this Covid19 thing together but I agree that the fact that schools are not prepared to do distance learning makes me wonder why the people responsible (administrators) are paid so much.

My district sent out surveys asking about internet access.... through the fucking internet. The stupidity of administrators is mind boggling. If you don't have access to internet how can you respond? My 3rd grader could figure out that's a stupid idea. The fact is the staff and teachers know the poor kids who are likely to not have internet. It's not complicated.

And the idea that admins would think people will keep their internet on during this is laughable. At least to a level that kids could tap into it. Lot's of bills are gonna be unpaid for the poor, which every community has some element of. Cell phones will have their internet, but many people get the cheapest plan possible, so no hotspot.

I'm convinced this is all a waste of time. Schools are done for the year. There's no mandatory testing required anymore. There's really no point in this. Keep your kids stimulated through various activities you can do, but even that is a struggle for 50-60% of the population. Especially in urban areas without physical contact with others. I probably wasn't going to, but I'll never live in a city ever again for sure now. Rural suburbs are doing me well. I frankly want a mountain cabin after this is all said and done.
31   RWSGFY   2020 Apr 1, 2:12pm  

WookieMan says
The fact is the staff and teachers know the poor kids who are likely to not have internet.


Impossible: everyfuckingbody and their dog have Internet on their phones. And everybody has a phone now.
32   MisdemeanorRebel   2020 Apr 1, 2:15pm  

Their mama is suckin' up all the bandwidth twerking on Snapchat to attract the felon with HIV fresh out of jail for a pounding; this is White People's fault, of course.
33   WookieMan   2020 Apr 1, 2:19pm  

TEOTWAWKI says
WookieMan says
The fact is the staff and teachers know the poor kids who are likely to not have internet.


Impossible: everyfuckingbody and their dog have Internet on their phones. And everybody has a phone now.

Partially true. Some don't/can't pay for unlimited data though. This remote learning shit has involved streaming video and such so far for my kids. A lot of people don't have the necessary devices. 90% of people have multiple devices, etc. But a good chunk of the population has their phone and that's it. And if the parents have to work, the internet might go with them.

Basically if you're getting free lunch, you're probably gonna have internet issues as mom and/or dad are deadbeats. Not too complicated. And is more common than most think. Especially outside of coastal areas.
34   NDrLoR   2020 Apr 1, 2:22pm  

rd6B says
Pandemic Coordinators
Once this precedent is set, you can be sure that every year from now on, there is going to be a virus crisis. Coordinators have to have a justification for their existence.
35   B.A.C.A.H.   2020 Apr 1, 4:01pm  

The state and local coffers will soon run dry anyway.
36   Shaman   2020 Apr 1, 5:25pm  

B.A.C.A.H. says
The state and local coffers will soon run dry anyway.


And that’s when the quarantine will be over. Sorry folks! Back to work and time to pay your fucking taxes!
38   Booger   2020 Apr 1, 6:12pm  

B.A.C.A.H. says
The state and local coffers will soon run dry anyway.


The fed will bail them out:
39   zzyzzx   2020 Apr 15, 7:33am  

It's happening!!!!

Governor is proposing 20% pay cuts for ‘most’ state employees

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/04/15/teachers-union-governor-is-proposing-pay-cuts-most-state-employees/
40   Misc   2020 Apr 15, 7:49am  

zzyzzx says
It's happening!!!!

Governor is proposing 20% pay cuts for ‘most’ state employees

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/04/15/teachers-union-governor-is-proposing-pay-cuts-most-state-employees/


Pelosi & Co. are trying to get an extra $150 billion for state and local governments put into the next stimulus bill.

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