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Hydroxychloroquine reduces course of Wuhan virus disease

By Patrick follow Patrick   2020 Apr 14, 8:40pm 1,856 views  37 comments           share      

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0315-4

This preprint reports a double-blind, randomized clinical trial of 62 patients to assess the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) in mild COVID-19. Patients in the treatment arm received 400 mg HCQ per day for 5 days. Fever and cough resolved on average 1 day earlier with HCQ, although the distribution of symptomatic patients at day 0 was not even between groups. No patients receiving HCQ progressed to severe disease, whereas 4 of 31 patients in the control arm progressed.


Seems like Nature was loathe to even print this evidence, given the title "Hydroxychloroquine: small effects in mild disease"

But just wait.
1   elliemae   2020 Apr 15, 8:33am  

That's too small of a sample to see if it works. We just don't know enough about it - but Trump wanted a "win," so he mentioned the medications. MD's started prescribing for their friends & families, people already on the drug whose MD's saw the writing on the wall began hoarding in February. I was one of the lucky ones and have a three month supply - but others aren't so lucky. There was a "run" on the drug, and real people are affected. Honestly, I'm panicking thinking about next month when I have to hunt for more of this very necessary medication.

Let me tell you about my day: I have Rheumatoid Arthritis. I take a Plaquenil in the morning and one at night. I get up, go to work and help a lot of sick people, then go home and do it all again the next day. I'm writing another book and working on some "stuff," no problem. I am relatively symptom-free on most days, although my feet are starting to show the damage (see attached pic). I am one of those people who is going to work so that you don't have to. You're welcome.

But without Plaquenil? The first couple of days, my system starts feeling "off" and I feel anxious, have difficulty focusing and my fine motor skills seem to decrease. I drop stuff, am agitated and tired all at the same time. Then, my shoulder locks up, my fingers and feet swell up, my neck locks up and I look like I was just in an accident and am pretending I got hurt. I get rashes - painful rashes. Night sweats. I hurt all over all the time. I turn into super bitch (which many might say, how would we know the difference?). Every pre-existing injury comes back to life - broken legs, discs bulge again, and I can't get comfortable. It hurts to type, my allergies cause my system to go haywire and I itch so much I injure myself. Standing is unbearable, walking is painful so I walk faster to get it over with. I want to curl up in a ball and die - and all the pain medications in the world won't make a difference because they don't alleviate the symptoms, just mask them for a precious few hours.

At that point, I need to reset my immune system, which is going haywire. My immune system will be compromised, so I'll probably get a UTI, an infection from scratching myself so much, or a cold (or this fucking coronavirus), so I'll take antibiotics which make me nauseous. I feel better the next day or two, but It'll take 1-2 months for every week I was off the Plaquenil to get my body to calm down again. This is the medication I've taken for over ten years - if I change to a different medication it will take months to see if it works (and if the side effects will kill me). We all depend on this medication.

I don't know whether this medication is helpful for the CORONAVIRUS (Sorry Patrick, calling it Wuhan doesn't make it any less of a pandemic) - but tens of thousands of people who are dependent upon the medication are struggling to get it - all because Trump wanted a "win."

Yes - Elliemae is back. And she's god-damn-pissed off.
2   Tenpoundbass   2020 Apr 15, 8:44am  

So Elimae admits the bullshit conjob about the side effects is bullshit.

Elimae is mad at Trump rather than the Liberals that are working to create shortages, and even tried to hoard it, so it couldn't be used.

This is like me bitching about Diabetics hogging up all of the insulin, because I can't find any to use in my salad dressing.

That is an appropriate analogy, as Rheumatoid Arthritis is an off label use, just as Covid 19 is.
3   Patrick   2020 Apr 15, 8:48am  

elliemae says
I have Rheumatoid Arthritis. I take a Plaquenil in the morning and one at night.


Seems like the drug is not about to kill you if it's prescribed for things like arthritis.

Media reports make it sound like your heart will instantly stop if you even try it. Why would they say such things? Gosh, it's almost like hate for Trump motivates them more than facts.

The reasons to use the factually correct "Wuhan virus" label is that:

1. it came from Wuhan
2. there are many coronaviruses
3. we should all resist attempts to shame us into altering our speech to please the coastal elite who have betrayed the country to China

The study in Nature is small, but they keep coming in, two by the French doctor, another from China, many doctors convinced that it helps. Let's wait and see if they keep on coming in showing positive results or not.
4   Reality   2020 Apr 15, 8:53am  

LOL! Elliemae is providing evidence for (1) regular HCQ intake has helped preventing her from getting the WuFlu / Covid-19 despite her daily routine of meeting numerous sick people in the last few months; (2) HCQ doesn't have side effect on most people.

As for bitching (her own word) about other patients getting to use the medicine, does she also hate other people eating food? especially people who are hungry or starving? After all, that's food that could have gone into her own mouth.

If anything, increased demand resulting in domestic production of the medicine can only lead to more stable/reliable supply for everyone who needs HCQ in the long run. For now, Trump has done a good job convincing India to keep shipping HCQ that the US has already ordered after Modi ordered a lock-down on HCQ export from India.
5   Shaman   2020 Apr 15, 9:14am  

Meanwhile:
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2020/04/14/media-hype-rita-wilson-saying-extreme-chloroquine-side-effects-were-vertigo-and-nausea/

Tom Hanks’ wife is bitching about surviving the Kung Flu with Chloroquine because “it made her nauseous and have vertigo.”

BUT DID YOU DIE?

Sorry you’re in distress, Ellie. That sounds like no fun at all, and I hope you can get your needed meds. However, please don’t equate the lifesaving effects of a similar drug with the inconvenience of having to look about a bit more to get what you need.
We shouldn’t consign people to death when they could be treated effectively for any reason, much less because someone else would be inconvenienced.
Hoarding aside, this shouldn’t be a zero sum game. Supplies of the critical meds will be increased soon.
6   Rin   2020 Apr 15, 11:02am  

elliemae says
I don't know whether this medication is helpful for the CORONAVIRUS (Sorry Patrick, calling it Wuhan doesn't make it any less of a pandemic) - but tens of thousands of people who are dependent upon the medication are struggling to get it - all because Trump wanted a "win."


Huh!?

The problem here isn't the Don's typical "Imus in the Morning" trash radio.

The problem is that the drug works as both, a prophylactic and a therapeutic, for more than one off label illness. In other words, it's off patent for its original purpose, Malaria, but clinicians have found it useful for rheumatoid arthritis, autoimmune disorders, as well as a "general antiviral", as there have been in-clinic use papers on it for both SARs and HIV in Southeast Asia during the early 2000s. So even the Coronavirus use is not a novel idea of 2019/2020.

So the question is this ... why isn't the military mass producing this item, right now, so that at least a billion dosages are available for use. And yes, they can pay the companies for use of their facilities?

Here's why ... the medical establishment, including the Fauci (dream team of the NIH), the FDA, the CDC, and some [ sarcasm on ]rock band (the WHO)[ sarcasm off ] , want to railroad this through the typical propaganda data control so that it's perceived as unsafe, not effective, & only useful in sporadic uncontrolled situations.
7   marcus   2020 Apr 15, 12:47pm  

Patrick says
3. we should all resist attempts to shame us into altering our speech to please the coastal elite who have betrayed the country to China


I would argue that if you aren't for single payer, you have betrayed the country to china or other countries.

For low paying jobs, employers can't justify the health insurance costs, and so they outsource.

So please understand that if you aren't for single payer, or some other nationalized plan, you are literally guilty of murdering Americans. This is the biggest cause of outsourcing and a FAR bigger cause of lost liveable wage jobs than illegal immigration.
8   Reality   2020 Apr 15, 1:23pm  

marcus says
For low paying jobs, employers can't justify the health insurance costs, and so they outsource.


They have to outsource because of those political mandates . . . which even more important than shipping those particular jobs overseas is depriving young Americans of jobs and ways of working their way to higher productivity and higher paying jobs.

marcus says

So please understand that if you aren't for single payer, or some other nationalized plan, you are literally guilty of murdering Americans.


Single-payer or other nationalized plans would certainly result in more American deaths: more bureaucratic red-tape and lower pay would make less people want to become doctor and nurses; even during this Covid-19 fiasco, hospitals faced with Medicare paying $13k for each Covid-19 patient coding while $39k for each ventilator use are already putting patients on ventilators unnecessarily instead of looking for ways keeping patients away from ventilators, which produces extremely high death rates quite unnecessarily. You are guaranteed to see more of this under single-payer system similar to Medicare applied to the entire population.

marcus says
This is the bigger cause of outsourcing and a FAR bigger cause of lost liveable wage jobs than illegal immigration.


Not true at all. Outsourcing in itself wouldn't result in loss of jobs: for the same reason that Sun rise and day light may reduce candle-making jobs but would enable more jobs making use of day light. The primary killer of jobs is political mandates attached to employment: they literally ban jobs from taking place. Mandating "liveable wage" literally means nobody except for head of household can have job, one job per household; two earners in the same household would bid up rent, and making local rent once again unaffordable to the one-income family.
9   marcus   2020 Apr 15, 1:44pm  

Reality says
Single-payer or other nationalized plans would certainly result in more American deaths: more bureaucratic red-tape and lower pay would make less people want to become doctor and nurses; even during this Covid-19 fiasco,


Nahh, not buying it. Pay would be a little different. Maybe some of the docs that now make 250K would be making 150K. Who knows, some nurses might be paid more. You're really totally speculating on this one. All the other first world nations figured it out. We're just more self centered and selfish here. And we're in this situation where our own selfish fear of our own health care being slightly worse, so that everyone can have healthcare, prevents us from doing the right thing.

Career choice is a relative thing. People that go into medicine, like people, like helping people, like science, have an aptitude for it, and sure want to be able to afford a family etc. , or otherwise make a decent living.

That last on is just one factor. Not everyone is focused only on money.

Reality says
more American deaths


This one is the most questionable of all. Quite the opposite in my opinion. Do you have any idea how many preventable problems are not addressed soon enough becasue of people not having health insurance ? I don't know the number, but common sense should tell you it's huge, if you understand human nature. Hell, a lot of people don't even attend to their health well if they do have health insurance.
10   Rin   2020 Apr 15, 1:51pm  

marcus says
Career choice is a relative thing. People that go into medicine, like people, like helping people, like science, have an aptitude for it, and sure want to be able to afford a family etc.

That last on is just one factor. Not everyone is focused only on money.


IMHO, the real reason, at least for a vast majority of premeds, is that they'd gotten good grades in biology and chemistry and being a doctor is better than trying to be an engineer, which is more quantitative (see statistical thermodynamics, signals & systems, etc), takes more time (in terms of book learning/homework time, not clinical rotations nor residencies which is really on-the-job training), and provides a lifetime of a near guaranteed paycheck whereas many engineers face downsizing past the age of 45.
11   Reality   2020 Apr 15, 2:07pm  

marcus says
Nahh, not buying it. Pay would be a little different. Maybe some of the docs that now make 250K would be making 150K. Who knows, some nurses might be paid more. You're really totally speculating on this one.


My model is much more accurate than those used by Dr. Mengele Fauci and Dr Mengele Birx. Dropping pay to 150k/yr would certainly turn away more than 5% (perhaps 30% if not over 50%) of the top students trying to be doctors . . . and that would translate to tens of thousands of avoidable patient deaths each year.


All the other first world nations figured it out. We're just more self centered and selfish here.


None of their national medical systems would work without patients being able to pay their own way to come to the US for operations on a cash-and-carry basis, and none of their national medical systems would work without the R&D shouldered by the US.


And we're in this situation where our own selfish fear of our own health care being slightly worse, so that everyone can have healthcare, prevents us from doing the right thing.


What is the right thing? Would you advocate single-payer for food? Do you think single-payer for food would lead to some of us eating slightly worse while eliminating hunger altogether? Or do you think single-payer for food would lead to mass starvation like every time such a policy was ever tried?

Would you advocate single-payer for sex? Why shouldn't the government pay your wife (and order her) to accommodate every man showing up with a government issued comfort-service-insurance ID? What makes her more special than doctors and nurses? Do you honestly believe such a system would give every man equal access to pretty women? What makes you think single-payer would ensure everyone having equal access to high quality doctors? Your own money is what enables you to have negotiation power in the market place. When money is sidelined, the society runs on feudal/political privilege.



Career choice is a relative thing. People that go into medicine, like people, like helping people, like science, have an aptitude for it, and sure want to be able to afford a family etc. , or otherwise make a decent living.


Doutful. Some specialists are extremely good at what they do. The majority however are likely in it for a government-licensed job security (while being farmed like milk cows by those loaning money for their medical school education and buying practices, as both are supply-constrained by governments). A pay-cap enforced by government single-payer would drive away the extremely talented specialists (just like those specialists in every other country try to come to the US), while the bottom-price guarantee enforced by government single-payer system would attract even more talentless time wasters that can kill more people through malpractice . . . e.g. government paid "doctors" like Mengele, Fauci and Birx.

marcus says
This one is the most questionable of all. Quite the opposite in my opinion. Do you have any idea how many preventable problems are not addressed soon enough becasue of people not having health insurance ? I don't know the number, but common sense should tell you it's huge, if you understand human nature. Hell, a lot of people don't even attend to their health well if they do have health insurance.


LOL! You answered your own question. Medical insurance is not the answer to their problems.
12   Rin   2020 Apr 15, 6:37pm  

Reality says
Dropping pay to 150k/yr would certainly turn away more than 5% (perhaps 30% if not over 50%) of the top students trying to be doctors . . . and that would translate to tens of thousands of avoidable patient deaths each year.


Here's the thing, book smarts doesn't equal success in finance. And that's typically the other venue which attracts top students.

Our original top proprietary trader, sure, a first LSE graduate, didn't become a multi-millionaire as a result of whether or not his Econometrics score was a borderline 70 or high end 85 for his first class credentials.

It was his ability to manage a trade position, with a certain amount of intuition and mental fortitude, which made him a success story.

In contrast, a lot of these top MDs are technicians who simply have an ability to remember lots of facts and are able to take action w/o hesitation, at all times in the OR. I've seen these exact ppl start in finance, get bored of the spreadsheet analyst world (lots of politics) and then dive into prop trading (high pressure to post results), just to leave for medical school a few years later with that 35-40 (don't know how that translates anymore) MCAT score. In other words, all their sideway and losing trades caused 'em to give up and search for a way where it's just exam results which gets 'em the paycheck.
13   elliemae   2020 Apr 15, 6:41pm  

Reality says
LOL! Elliemae is providing evidence for (1) regular HCQ intake has helped preventing her from getting the WuFlu / Covid-19 despite her daily routine of meeting numerous sick people in the last few months; (2) HCQ doesn't have side effect on most people.

Well, you might be correct - only you don't know if I've adjusted my practice or my patient population, so you don't have any "evidence" that I've not gotten sick because of my meds. So far as my "evidence" of HCQ not having side effects on most people - I'm not "most people" and I'm certainly not side-effect free. But thanks for playing.

Patrick says
Seems like the drug is not about to kill you if it's prescribed for things like arthritis.

Please do not mistake "arthritis" (a painful, often debilitating condition) with Rheumatoid Arthritis, which is a debilitating, progressive, often deadly disease. As luck would have it, either my disease will kill me or my medications will. At the moment I'm choosing treatment that, while having side effects, makes it so that I am able to function. And, Patrick, I today I worked on discharging a patient with San Francisco Virus. Ya know, AIDS... and calling it that didn't help my patient although he enjoyed the sentiment. He's going home on hospice tomorrow.

Shaman says
We shouldn’t consign people to death when they could be treated effectively for any reason, much less because someone else would be inconvenienced

You are correct. But we shouldn't try to pin our hopes on a 64 person study. We don't know if they can be treated effectively, if the drug even makes a difference. It's all speculation at this point. But Shaman, when I AM inconvenienced by not being able to take my medications, I inconveniently end up in the hospital because the treatment (steroids for starters) causes my immune system to shut down and then I get infections... UTI, Kidney, all over from the scratching... and I'm exposed to nosocomial infections there, which is also a blast.

Tenpoundbass says
This is like me bitching about Diabetics hogging up all of the insulin, because I can't find any to use in my salad dressing.

I'm sorry you can't find insulin for your salad dressing; perhaps if you tried other, more effective options that have been proven over time to enhance the taste of lettuce while not killing people, you wouldn't have that problem. And, I didn't "try to hoard" it, I filled a 90 day prescription as usual.

Reality says
LOL! You answered your own question. Medical insurance is not the answer to their problems.
The ACA allowed for many people to gain health insurance and stop using the ER as a revolving door for primary care issues. No, medical insurance is not the answer - access to healthcare is the answer.

For me, it's more basic. The egomaniac in the White House opened his mouth, attempting to practice medicine without a license without sufficient information or knowledge to support it, and it created problems for many, many people. I am one of them - and I could die because he's a fucking idiot.
14   Rin   2020 Apr 15, 6:51pm  

elliemae says
But Shaman, when I AM inconvenienced by not being able to take my medications, I inconveniently end up in the hospital because the treatment (steroids for starters) causes my immune system to shut down and then I get infections... UTI, Kidney, all over from the scratching... and I'm exposed to nosocomial infections there, which is also a blast.


I know that I'm not suppose to say anything about this, but have you tried Allisure's brand of Allicin, the main active ingredient generated in Garlic?

So far, at least a dozen friends/acquaintances have used it for all kinds of infections (including UTI) and has helped immensely. And no, the supplement store doesn't carry it. Those stores sell chopped or aged Garlic pills, mostly useless in terms of medicinal effects.

This needs to be specially processed so that the Allicin is generated, stabilized, and bio-available. Right now, Allisure is made in the UK (but available here through resellers) and has been used in a London University study to contain MRSA infection.
16   goofus   2020 Apr 15, 8:36pm  

Quercetin and catechin might be hydroxychloroquine analogues. One can make up an interesting story here, from three pubmed articles:

(1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2973827/ PLoS Pathog. 2010 Nov; 6(11): e1001176.
Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of these Viruses in Cell Culture

"Increasing the intracellular Zn2+ concentration with zinc-ionophores like pyrithione (PT) can efficiently impair the replication of a variety of RNA viruses, including poliovirus and influenza virus. For some viruses this effect has been attributed to interference with viral polyprotein processing. In this study we demonstrate that the combination of Zn2+ and PT at low concentrations (2 µM Zn2+ and 2 µM PT) inhibits the replication of SARS-coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and equine arteritis virus (EAV) in cell culture."

(2) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4182877/ PLoS One. 2014; 9(10): e109180.
Chloroquine is a Zinc Ionophore

"The favorable effect of chloroquine appears to be due to its ability to sensitize cancerous cells to chemotherapy, radiation therapy, and induce apoptosis. The present study investigated the interaction of zinc ions with chloroquine in a human ovarian cancer cell line (A2780). Chloroquine enhanced zinc uptake by A2780 cells in a concentration-dependent manner, as assayed using a fluorescent zinc probe. [...] Thus chloroquine is a zinc ionophore, a property that may contribute to chloroquine's anticancer activity."

(3) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25050823 J Agric Food Chem. 2014 Aug 13;62(32):8085-93.
Zinc ionophore activity of quercetin and epigallocatechin-gallate

"Labile zinc, a tiny fraction of total intracellular zinc that is loosely bound to proteins and easily interchangeable, modulates the activity of numerous signaling and metabolic pathways. Dietary plant polyphenols such as the flavonoids quercetin (QCT) and epigallocatechin-gallate act as antioxidants and as signaling molecules. Remarkably, the activities of numerous enzymes that are targeted by polyphenols are dependent on zinc. We have previously shown that these polyphenols chelate zinc cations and hypothesized that these flavonoids might be also acting as zinc ionophores, transporting zinc cations through the plasma membrane. To prove this hypothesis, herein, we have demonstrated the capacity of QCT and epigallocatechin-gallate to rapidly increase labile zinc in mouse hepatocarcinoma Hepa 1-6 cells as well as, for the first time, in liposomes."
17   goofus   2020 Apr 15, 8:48pm  

Nothing would make me happier than to work around the ludicrous situation we find ourselves in: governors (like NV's) banning HCQ while military, jails, and hospitals keep stockpiles of the drug. Pharmacy shelves are bare and it's easier to find illegal opioids than a potentially life-saving drug.

US results for COVID deaths are incoming, but not promising thus far. Our curve is steeper, our recovered to deaths ratio lower, and our diagnoses higher than anywhere else. USA #1 indeed. Meanwhile, Australia, South Korea, Japan, India, Israel, and more recently Spain and Italy are bringing numbers down -- and all, not coincidentally, are mass-prescribing hydroxychloroquine.

Elliemae, this is not a zero-sum game. HCQ production can and should be ramped up. Further, what supplies we have should be routed to pharmacies rather than military (etc) stockpiles.
18   Reality   2020 Apr 15, 10:22pm  

elliemae says
Reality says
LOL! Elliemae is providing evidence for (1) regular HCQ intake has helped preventing her from getting the WuFlu / Covid-19 despite her daily routine of meeting numerous sick people in the last few months; (2) HCQ doesn't have side effect on most people.

Well, you might be correct - only you don't know if I've adjusted my practice or my patient population, so you don't have any "evidence" that I've not gotten sick because of my meds. So far as my "evidence" of HCQ not having side effects on most people - I'm not "most people" and I'm certainly not side-effect free. But thanks for playing.


LOL! The only evidence we have at this point is that "Elliemae" is a character created by a lying crook who keeps changing his/her story.

elliemae says
The ACA allowed for many people to gain health insurance and stop using the ER as a revolving door for primary care issues. No, medical insurance is not the answer - access to healthcare is the answer.


As Chief Justice Roberts recognized, ACA was a tax law: an excuses to collect tax penalty. Access to medical service is artificially constrained by government licensing requirement. The ACA insurance plans make no sense whatsoever for anyone who previously couldn't afford insurance: the high deductibles in those plans make it certain that they can't afford to pay the deductibles before the insurance coverage kicks in. All those plans are essentially taxation schemes to squeeze some money out of the low to lower-middle income people who previously wouldn't be paying any premium.


For me, it's more basic. The egomaniac in the White House opened his mouth, attempting to practice medicine without a license without sufficient information or knowledge to support it, and it created problems for many, many people. I am one of them - and I could die because he's a fucking idiot.


LOL! You will die. That is a given for anyone who is alive. Since you claim the drug has so much adverse side effect for you, the silver lining if you can't get it is that now you don't have to worry about the side effects. Your claim that you can't get it despite prescription is ridiculous; the only thing that is even more ridiculous is your belief that other people should be deprived of this effective medicine in saving their lives because the anti-malarial drug should be reserved for your particular off-original-purpose-use. If you want to be a stickler for using drugs only for their original purpose, you too should be banned from using the drug altogether.

BTW, that foot is ugly, only slightly less ugly than the atrociously selfish personality shown by the "Elliemae" character. If you want to make a more convincing case for the Democrats, you need to go back to the drawing board and create a different character more worthy of sympathy.
19   marcus   2020 Apr 15, 11:52pm  

:
Hey, Ellie. You were the first one to repond to a comment I posted here. But don't worry, I don't blame you.

Also, FUCK Reality. You're right to be pissed. But if Trump really did what he says, buying so many millions of units of those meds, there's got to be a way to get him to share with the people the drugs are actually approved for. I've got to believe people are working on this, while meanwhile more is being manufactured.

Sorry to hear about your situation with Rhumatoid arthritis. I had experience with a something that was thought to possibly be auto-immune in my youth, and at least I could use steroids when it flared up. Not a problem these days, but I think understand how much it sucks (not really though). Stay tough. .

This place is basically a relative rightwing hell hole these days. Trump gave a lot of scumbags the opportunity to show the world who they really are. But I try to stay optimistic about America. Only by showing the assholes the love (or at least tolerance) they've obviously been deprived of, do we have a chance of helping them.

I'm just here becasue of the habit, and to try to add a little balance to the hate and stupidity.
20   WookieMan   2020 Apr 16, 12:04am  

marcus says
I'm just here becasue of the habit, and to try to add a little balance to the hate and stupidity.

If Patrick allows it, who do you think hates you here? I don't hate you. I'd buy you a beer in a heart beat. I'd be careful to take much here personal. I don't disagree things tend to lean right wing here, but it's a sign of the times. I was a lurker and didn't comment at all, but this used to be a real estate website at one point. It will ebb and flow and that's what is kind of fun about the site. It doesn't generally have a specific identity all the time. You show up and see something you would have never thought of seeing or thinking.

I mean come on TPB, Rin, HEYYOU, AF, etc. These are characters in your life. Embrace them and enjoy. Even the ones you don't like. This is all ultimately bull shit at the end of the day.
21   Rin   2020 Apr 16, 3:51am  

WookieMan says
This is all ultimately bull shit at the end of the day.


Wait?! Where's the bull shit?

Bonking hoes is the Law ... Rin Wah Law. Aside from that, the rest is bullshit.
22   elliemae   2020 Apr 16, 7:41am  

Reality says

LOL! The only evidence we have at this point is that "Elliemae" is a character created by a lying crook who keeps changing his/her story.

Elliemae is a very real person, not sure which story I've changed but that's your opinion and I respect it, no matter how stupid and insignificant it truly is.

Reality says
BTW, that foot is ugly, only slightly less ugly than the atrociously selfish personality shown by the "Elliemae" character. If you want to make a more convincing case for the Democrats, you need to go back to the drawing board and create a different character more worthy of sympathy.

Yes, the foot is ugly. It's also painful. Once again, Elliemae is not a character I created, although I am quite the character.Reality says
LOL! You will die. That is a given for anyone who is alive.

Technically we are all dying the day that we are born. But I don't want to die SOON.
marcus says
Sorry to hear about your situation with Rhuematoid arthritis.
. TY Marcus. I do appreciate the sentiment - so far it appears that it's Elliemae's untimely death, 12,492 to Elliemae's life 2 in the beginning of the third quarter.
23   Tenpoundbass   2020 Apr 16, 8:49am  

elliemae says
Elliemae is a very real person, not sure which story I've changed but that's your opinion and I respect it, no matter how stupid and insignificant it truly is.


Elliemae is a very real person, much deserving of our respect.
She at least saw fit to vanish after Trump won the election, rather than crap on our parade everyday, like some you know whos.
24   rdm   2020 Apr 16, 12:48pm  

Tenpoundbass says
She at least saw fit to vanish after Trump won the election

So if Biden wins you will do the same?
Hope not, isn't diversity of opinion important? Especially since there are few to no women that ever post here and most posts turn into male mutual oral genital stimulation
25   Reality   2020 Apr 16, 7:36pm  

elliemae says
Elliemae is a very real person, not sure which story I've changed but that's your opinion and I respect it, no matter how stupid and insignificant it truly is.


LOL! The part where you claimed to have a daily routine of meeting different people, then later on changing the story to that you have changed daily routine. Do you believe virus magically flood the society after government officials declare emergency? The consistent historical track record is exactly the opposite: Bill Clinton told people to invest in the stock market in 1999 just as the stock market peaked and ready to crash; George W. Bush encouraged people to invest in the housing market in 2006 just as the housing market peaked and ready to crash; Fauci declared the need to lock down the society just as the daily infection acceleration peaked and ready to crash!

Since you are such a good listener of advice from government official shills, it is reasonable to assume that you followed the shills' advice that the WuFlu was nothing in January, perhaps even considering it racist if you kept yourself away from those freshly getting off plane from overseas through much of February, might even consider getting onboard Cruise Ship as late as March 8th (as Fauci recommended safe for people who don't have pre-existing condition and not elderly). Chances are that you had plenty exposure to people who were sick from WuFlu in January, February and early March. Yet, you were not getting ill (despite yourself being prone to inflamation) is indicative that HCQ worked well as a preventive against WuFlu in your case.

marcus says
Also, FUCK Reality.


So much for amicable discussion and rationality. Not a chance Marcus, that foot is not pretty enough, and your personality is even more ugly.

marcus says
This place is basically a relative rightwing hell hole these days. Trump gave a lot of scumbags the opportunity to show the world who they really are. But I try to stay optimistic about America. Only by showing the assholes the love (or at least tolerance) they've obviously been deprived of, do we have a chance of helping them.


LOL! Most posters on Patnet on the right side consist of people who are reasonably successful in their own lives and comment on Patnet from time to time. The few on the left OTOH post much more frequently, and often parrot the most inane lame-stream media, therefore are likely paid propagandists. Frankly, I'm not even entirely on the right side, as I post rational arguments from time to time that put an end to a thread that has veered too far off one way or another; what's interesting is that, the ones on the right usually let the issue drop when I point out the more enlightened and rational perspective, it is the ones on the left that tend to dig in their heels and make more and more irrational arguments, likely due to the latter being paid propagandists.
26   elliemae   2020 Apr 17, 8:29am  

Reality says
LOL! The part where you claimed to have a daily routine of meeting different people, then later on changing the story to that you have changed daily routine.


I do have a daily routine of meeting different people. I've changed my routine, as have many other practitioners. There's such thing as distancing, FaceTime, and something called a telephone. But I still do some face-to-face visits - or should I say "mask to mask?"
Reality says
Chances are that you had plenty exposure to people who were sick from WuFlu in January, February and early March
That would be true if I were in the acute care setting. But I am not.
Reality says
it is reasonable to assume that you followed the shills' advice that the WuFlu was nothing in January,

Actually, believe it or not, many healthcare workers have been aware of the COVID-19 since late last year. We had already been addressing infection control practices, but we stepped them up.
Reality says
you were not getting ill (despite yourself being prone to inflamation) is indicative that HCQ worked well as a preventive against WuFlu in your case.
You sure do assume a lot - and it makes an ass out of u. Not me. Because I have an understanding of the randomness of infection, infection control practices - and more importantly, limiting patient contact. It also helps that my current setting is fairly low-risk as compared to many other settings. But HCQ has not worked as a preventive for the virus - it doesn't work that way. And since I haven't been infected, we don't know if the medication would help with my viral load and potential for recovery. HCQ has not been proven to be effective - it also hasn't been proven not to be effective. Just because your magical leader tells you it's awesome doesn't make it so.

We all want a magic pill that will fix us, but there ain't one.

To the rest of you, thank you for your kind words. Especially you - ten pounds of dip-shit. Are you still pissing off people in Florida? And did poopybear ever emerge from his parent's basement?
28   marcus   2020 Apr 17, 9:01pm  

:
Control group are 224 that refused medications ?

Wtf ?

Do you understand what that means ?

Gosh, is anyone else wondering whether being older and feeling ready to die might correlate with refusing medication ? (although using the term correlate here is not quite right since feeling older and or ready to die is not numeric ). Should say positively associated to be more accurate, but you know what I mean. Basically causal.

I could also see people that want to be admitted to hospital who were only given the option of medication staying home (with meds), being ornery and saying either admit me or I dont want your medication, as a way of forcing the issue. Doctors are going to cave.

I've actually never heard of a control group being that messed up. Usually people have a conniption about it not being blind or double blind. But here we have an entirely different group of patients. Wildly WILDLY different. Again, WHAT THE FUCK ?

My neighbor, a nurse is super stressed out from doing telephone work with CV patients. That's all she does right now.
29   marcus   2020 Apr 19, 3:57pm  

:

Chloroquine and its close relative hydroxychloroquine offered signs that they may ease some of the hallmark symptoms of coronavirus infection in patients who were hospitalized with COVID-19. But the drugs largely failed to deliver improvements on other key measures when evaluated in rigorous research studies.

In research done in France, hydroxychloroquine reduced neither deaths nor admissions to intensive care units among patients who received it. In a study conducted in China and another in Brazil, the two drugs failed to help patients clear the coronavirus faster.


These facts are obviously fake news.

Don't you understand ? The mainstream media wants nothing more than Donald Trump's failure. But Trump knows this, so next time there is something promising for America's benefit, perhaps rather than trying to take credit for it if it works, Trump will allow things to develop in a more normal fashion.

He could even push things on the down low, if he has such a strong hunch. It does only harm to get Sean Humanity, Patrick and TPB all cheering for this thing that we have absolutely no idea about the efficacy of, just because they feel so desperately in the need of a big TRUMP WIN ® other than it does have known uses that are being fucked over by people hoarding it based on Trumps omnipotence.

I know what you're thinking. I mean it's not like there are 1000s great minds working on this, and tens of thousands of doctors. Don't you see, we needed Trump to clear the way for a treatment that works ! He wasn't looking for credit, or to make up for any previous incompetence and confusion. He just knew that only he could solve this.

He truly is the one.
30   elliemae   2020 Apr 20, 7:38am  

I really hope that the drugs are effective on covid-19. I really, really do. I don't give a shit if Trump gets a "win" or a "loss." But every time he opens his mouth a whole bunch of koolaide drinking morons jump - and that will make it more difficult for me to get a refill. If it turns out that it is effective, they can ramp up production of the medication at that time. It's dangerous for him to practice Medicine.
31   Onvacation   2020 Apr 20, 7:59am  

elliemae says
No, medical insurance is not the answer - access to healthcare is the answer.

Yep. Cut out those bloodsucking middlemen.
32   MisdemeanorRebel   2020 Apr 20, 9:11am  

HCQ & Antibiotic regimen sucks so bad that Brazil has made it the go-to treatment:
The paper mentions that chloroquine and HCQ have been mandated as the standard therapy in Brazil, so there is no way to run a control group, though.


https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/11/the-latest-hydroxychloroquine-data-as-of-april-11


So many lies:

* It's not a cure - Viruses don't have cures, beyond vaccination. It's supposed to mitigate the dangerous symptoms of it
* It's causing cardiac events - because the people who are given it, in desperation, are mostly elderly and always have severe chronic illnesses to begin with, mostly lung and heart.
* The drug itself is dangerous - rubbish, it's a common generic manufactured and taken in vast quantities a year. Unfortunately, it's most dangerous in those who are also most likely to suffer from a severe bout of Covid.
33   Patrick   2020 Apr 20, 9:26pm  

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hydroxychloroquine-and-other-autoimmune-drugs-dont-fully-protect-against-coronavirus-early-data-suggest-11587222001 (paywall!)

Hydroxychloroquine and Other Autoimmune Drugs Don’t Fully Protect Against Coronavirus, Early Data Suggest

Dozens of people taking hydroxychloroquine and other treatments for chronic rheumatologic diseases have become infected with Covid-19, according to an analysis of emerging data that is a sign the drugs may not protect people from the new coronavirus.

More than five dozen people with chronic ailments like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis were taking medications such as hydroxychloroquine before being diagnosed with the coronavirus, according to data compiled by the Global Rheumatology Alliance, a coalition of rheumatologists,...


Damn, is that some impressive negative spin or what? Doesn't "Fully" protect.

So that means it does protect to some degree. Why isn't that the title?
34   Patrick   2020 Apr 20, 9:33pm  

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200419/Hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-treatment-in-80-COVID-19-patients-short-term-outcomes.aspx


The current study is an uncontrolled observational study in 80 COVID-19 patients with mild infection. All were treated with the two drugs, hydroxychloroquine, and azithromycin for three or more days. ...

Did the hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin combo work?

The administration of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin brought about an improvement in all but one patient (who was elderly, had severe symptoms, and had an irreversible disease). The improvement appeared to be better than that described in other hospitalized cohorts.

PCR and culture results show reduced transmissibility

The viral load in the nasopharynx reduced rapidly as per qPCR, with 83% and 93% of patients having a negative swab by day seven and day eight, respectively. The number of contagious patients was two by ten days, and zero by day 12, but had declined markedly by day 6.

In over 97% of patients, respiratory swabs proved negative on culture by day 5. Only two cultures were still positive after day 5, one by day 8 and none by day 9.

Most patients stayed in hospital for five days on average before being discharged.

What can be inferred about the drug combination?

The researchers emphasize the need to treat the condition effectively to avoid progressive worsening of the lung symptoms, typically around the 10th day, which may end in acute respiratory distress syndrome, of poor prognosis, especially in older people.

The researchers point to the rapid symptomatic improvement, with the parallel reduction in viral DNA load, both by PCR and by culture, as evidence for the potential of these drugs to produce a favorable outcome.

The safety of these drugs is not in question, at the recommended doses, but ECG monitoring is recommended since hydroxychloroquine has occasionally been reported to cause heart block in patients with underlying heart conditions. Careful monitoring of high-risk patients by ECG and watching for possible drug interactions should be sufficient to avoid this complication.

The researchers are planning a larger trial in their institution to validate their early findings. They summarize, “We have provided evidence of a beneficial effect of co-administration of hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin in the treatment of COVID-19 and its potential effectiveness in the early reduction of contagiousness. Given the urgent therapeutic need, and the negligible cost of both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, we believe that there is an urgent need to evaluate this strategy further.”
36   Patrick   2020 May 11, 9:02pm  

https://www.msn.com/en-ph/entertainment/celebrity/study-says-zinc-hydroxychloroquine-is-effective-in-some-covid-19-patients/ar-BB13WqeH

- The NYU Grossman School of Medicine conducted a study that showed some positive news regarding a possible new treatment against COVID-19

- The study involved 900 COVID-19 patients, with half of them given zinc sulfate along with hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin; the other half were given hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin only

- Those in the first group had a 1.5 times greater likelihood of recovering enough to be discharged from the hospital and 44 percent were less likely to die from the virus compared to the second group

- The said research has not yet been peer reviewed and needs to be further studied by other experts

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