patrick.net

From the photos, it looks like this guy is in San Francisco.

Patrick says

...200W, 500Wh system... valuable in the event of backup generator needs

"Backup generator needs" == powering the fridge for the most part.

200W doesn't even start to cut it.

Yearly value creation: 311kWh/y * 15c/kWh = $48/y energy created
PG&E's baseline rate (E-1 residential) is now $0.24373 / kWhr! Instantly increase your return by two thirds.

I just got Sonic.net Fiber installed, so I'm looking at some sort of small solar system for running the ONT if power goes out. I've got an extra car battery and have been considering this kit from Renogy that also has USB charging.

The electricity cost to the homeowner does not have a fixed part for the infrastructure. That 24¢/kWhr covers both the infrastructure and generation of power. If someone installs solar panels, they drop their payments to PG&E to $0, and so aren't paying anything for the infrastructure costs still incurred by their being hooked to the grid. Unless the cost scheme changes, expect a "positive" feedback loop where kWhr costs increase, forcing more people onto solar cells, which causes the kWhr costs to increase further, etc.

For me, I only run 8 kWhr per day, so it's still hard to justify the fixed cost aspect of a solar cell system. As that fixed cost comes down, though, the numbers keep improving. I'd like to see a setup where I pay some fixed costs (let's say maybe $4k) for the inverter and other hookup-related initial expenses. Then I can add more and more solar panels myself as my needs change. If, for example, I put in air conditioning, I'd just buy a few more panels and hoist them up to the roof myself. If I bought an electric car ... a few more solar panels.

covid_shmovid says

"Backup generator needs" == powering the fridge for the most part.
200W doesn't even start to cut it.

The kit the Patrick showcased has a 500W inverter for max output (A/C). As this site notes a fridge uses about 6 or 7 amps, but triple that for the start-up surge, so a dedicated power outlet with 15 to 20 amps is required for a fridge. You'd probably want a 2000W inverter to safe.

SunnyvaleCA says

. If someone installs solar panels, they drop their payments to PG&E to $0

Minimum daily charge courtesy of PG&E is $0.32854 (a little more than $10/ month), so you'll want to undersize your system by about 10% or more.

EBGuy says

SunnyvaleCA says

. If someone installs solar panels, they drop their payments to PG&E to $0

Minimum daily charge courtesy of PG&E is $0.32854 (a little more than $10/ month), so you'll want to undersize your system by about 10% or more.

Don’t forget, NEM 2.0 has non bypassable charges as well. Any kWh you use that comes from the grid will not be able to be offset 100% by credits in your true-up year that you build up from solar producing more than you consume at any given time.

SunnyvaleCA says

The electricity cost to the homeowner does not have a fixed part for the infrastructure. That 24¢/kWhr covers both the infrastructure and generation of power. If someone installs solar panels, they drop their payments to PG&E to $0, and so aren't paying anything for the infrastructure costs still incurred by their being hooked to the grid. Unless the cost scheme changes, expect a "positive" feedback loop where kWhr costs increase, forcing more people onto solar cells, which causes the kWhr costs to increase further, etc.

For me, I only run 8 kWhr per day, so it's still hard to justify the fixed cost aspect of a solar cell system. As that fixed cost comes down, though, the numbers keep improving. I'd like to see a setup where I pay some fixed costs (let's say maybe $4k) for the inverter and other hookup-related initial expenses. Then I can add more and more solar panels myself as my needs change. If, for example, I put in air conditioning, I'd just buy a few more panel...

This has already occurred and was the problem with NEM 1.0 tarriffs. PV customers could essentially get an almost free ride hookup for their grid tied inverters that require the grid for a 60 hz sine wave to even operate. That’s also why any new NEM agreements for the last few years have been NEM 2.0

They've been selling these plug-in solar kits for maybe 5-10 yrs now.

These plug right into your wall socket, so you can use it grid tied. The charge controller will shut the solar power off if your grid power goes down, which prevents you from backfeeding into the grid and electrocuting the utility line man if he shuts power off to work on the lines.

https://pluggedsolar.com/grid-tie-solar-power/320-watt-plug-and-play-solar-panel-power-simply-plug-into-wall/
https://plugandplaysolarkits.com/collections/plug-and-play-solar-panels

The economics are actually decent (current sale price is $500, they usually go for 750-800), especially if the govt is still offering that 30% federal solar rebate. Especially when you think about this: each additional 100 watts of solar you add has diminishing returns because you're probably billed using a tiered rate system, where you pay more and more per KWH as you monthly usage goes up. So the first few hundred watts of solar will help reduce the expensive tier 2 or 3 portion of your bill, and you can add more solar until your monthly bills are reduced to being mostly at the low tier 1 rate. At that point, adding additional solar has greatly diminished returns, and may not be worth it for many households. But, that first 300 watts of solar that this kit provides has great bang for the buck if you pay tiered rates.



Bad things im aware of:
- legality is a grey area for grid tied use
- im worried if my house ever burned down, insurance might try to weasel out of payment due to "illegal electrical modifications" or some crap like that.
- electricians would probably scream bloody murder if they saw you using a reg power plug to FEED into an OUTLET, although it of course works ok.
- you need to limit how many watts you plug into each home electrical circuit, because you're kinda defeating your circuit breaker by installing an electrical feed after the breaker in the circuit. if you went really far and plugged lots of panels in, you might overload your wiring - potential fire hazard. But, I think 300-600 watts additional shouldn't be a problem at all unless your circuit is already out of spec for some reason. Know your circuit and limit max power usage, and youll be ok.