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Understanding Partisan Division

By Patrick follow Patrick   2020 Jul 30, 12:12pm 597 views   26 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Partisan division is fundamental to human thought and cannot be ended. It can however, be understood and mitigated.

By "partisan" I mean belonging to parties with distinct shibboleths of belonging:

- Democrats say "dreamers", Republicans say "children of illegals"
- Republicans tend to be believing Christians, Democrats not.
- Democrats tend to eat elite foods such as arugula, Republicans not.
- Democrats say "jobs Americans don't want", Republicans say "jobs where illegals drove down wages"

Democrats tend to avoid directly saying what they really mean.
BLM is a self-justifying way for white liberals to say "I hate Republicans. They scare me."

Republicans are the party of the poor these days. They tend to be less educated, but they know they have lost due to globalization forces beyond their control.
So they tend to go for conspiracy theories.


Most political division is visceral and not rational, directly due to one's genetic and economic position in life:

1. Women tend to "think of the children" more more than men do.
2. Men tend to care much more about the integrity of national borders than women do.
3. People who are losing their manual labor jobs to cheap Chinese labor or illegal Mexican labor care much more about immigration than knowledge workers do.
4. People who are "educated" (much of which is propaganda for the superiority of "educated" people) tend to look down on those who do not have credentials.
5. People who have been in the military tend to approve of hierarchy and the strict application of laws.
6. People in big cities tend to approve of government wealth redistribution programs.
7. Race alone is a good predictor of party affiliation.
8. The young tend to be liberal, the old tend to be conservative.

In fact, I bet you could simply add up the tendencies predicted by each aspect of someone's existence and come up with a 95% correct prediction of their political affiliation.

You think you're in control of your political choices but you are not. You are carried along on the currents of your genetics and your experiences.

Maybe it's possible to be rational and look at it all honestly. Maybe not.

When you know how it works, you can:
1. know what the right thing to say is in a given situation or
2. know when there is literally nothing you can say that will help

For the best introduction I have ever read, see https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/

(I plan to add some online petitions, looked at from different partisan points of view, and from the point of view of business profits at the expense of voters.)
1   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Jul 30, 1:41pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

The formula is rather simple:

Cultural differences express themselves in politics. That can be in the form of cooperative/consensus politics or divisive partisan politics, depending upon the issues at stake.

This is why very decentralized but federal/confederal governmental systems work better than centralized unitary governmental ones do when it it comes to nations that have various cultures that differ from one another.

See the difference between Denmark(unitary government but also unitary culture) and India (federalized and many divergent cultures), Yugoslavia (nominally federal system but really suppressive unitary with various distinct cultures) vs Swizerland (like Yugoslavia in many ways BUT the federal system was really decentralized with strong checks on the federal government from the ground up).

Unitary systems that don't work as well as say, Denmark or Iceland are examples such the three Baltic ex-Soviet SSRs Estonia, Latvia, & Lithuania. This is because up to 25% of their population are Russians that were moved there during the Soviet Era. That's not to say that the governments of those three nations are not objectively functional. See my definition of 'functional government' below as it pertains to this discussed context. But rather they are weakened because of cultural rift in systems where autonomy is denied. Belgium is weakened in the exact same way. Canada for the longest time had the same problem with Quebec -- and it is a federal system that should have handled it better!
'
Definition of a functional federal/confederal system here: One where a 'live and let live' attitude pervades and nobody even dreams of trying to impose a 'one size fits all' policy against regional/cultural opposition. Contrast that where the US is a constant battle for the national levers of power so one side can force an ideology on other cultures that don't have those same levers and thus cannot defend their interests (like the Russians in Estonia or the Flems in Belgium).

US USED to have a more decentralized system where 'live and let live' was the rule. Most government activity was thus at the state level...as was the level of taxation. Then Big Government came along. EU has been evolving the same way and Eurocrats wonder why they are not popular with huge swaths of the European population unless they buy them off (which is what Ottawa ultimately did with Quebec to solve that crisis).

We need to radically decentralize. Transfer huge swaths of the federal government back to the States. Social Security should be an interstate compact agency, for example.
2   Booger   ignore (7)   2020 Jul 30, 3:03pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Thread title suggested that this was going to be about WW2 Yugoslavia.
3   Misc   ignore (0)   2020 Jul 31, 1:27am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Booger says
Thread title suggested that this was going to be about WW2 Yugoslavia.


A third of US households didn't make their July housing payment. Give it time.
5   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2020 Jul 31, 9:37am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

The media is exacerbating the problem greatly. Just look at my post in AF’s Florida Covid thread. If you only listen to the media you would think Florida, Texas, and AZ are the next NYC.

But the reality is, not only are they no where close to that, but several Blue states have phenomenally bad death rates....including many where I haven’t heard a peep from the media. It’s actually the most pronounced division of fact vs reality I’ve seen in the msm.
6   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 10:01am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says
It’s actually the most pronounced division of fact vs reality I’ve seen in the msm.


And it's literally costing thousands of lives because of the HCQ deniers who keep refusing to look at the science which clearly shows that HCQ given early works, and only look at the cases where people already have pneumonia.

I am going to email everyone I know with a plea to stop the HCQ denial and to spread the email. It would be morally wrong not to if we all have a chance to save many lives and stop the pandemic almost immediately.
7   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 31, 11:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

i just got an email warning against using whitelist, blacklist, master, and slave references.
8   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 11:13am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Another moral dilemma. Do you let them control and chill ordinary speech, or do you risk your job?
9   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 11:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
I am going to email everyone I know with a plea to stop the HCQ denial and to spread the email. It would be morally wrong not to if we all have a chance to save many lives and stop the pandemic almost immediately.


I'm going to work as hard as possible on a short email for people to forward to everyone they know, and post it on this site.

I hope to be done by evening tomorrow composing it and mailing it out.
10   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 31, 11:16am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Another moral dilemma. Do you let them control and chill ordinary speech, or do you risk your job?


I intend to use those words as necessary and simply apologize. 90% of the IT guys don't give a shit, only the non-coder types do.

Call it "bureaucratic resistance"
11   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 11:28am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Seems like a good solution. I wish you protection from the haters.
12   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 31, 11:35am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

My hope is eventually it will be "Cool" to use the "Old Words" between those in the know, and for the "Squares" use whatever new terms they are using.

Gives it a "Cache" and makes the establishment order words look "Stodgy".
13   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 11:41am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

And later, you can be proud that you held out while so much of the world let themselves get caught up in temporary insanity.
14   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 12:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

That's a good example of deliberately inflaming partisan division there.

I'm guilty of it too, but trying to be better.
15   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 31, 6:05pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I miss the good old days when it was all about the Federal Reserve.
16   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 6:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

We are all the food for rage-memes now.

To recognize them clearly is to defeat them in yourself, but they will exist in others, and continue to attack.
17   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 6:22pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Misc says
Booger says
Thread title suggested that this was going to be about WW2 Yugoslavia.


A third of US households didn't make their July housing payment. Give it time.


The rent is too high. The powers that be have seen to that. Rents are driving up house prices too.

https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/rent-growth-since-1960/
18   PMack   ignore (0)   2020 Jul 31, 7:05pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

it's all a fucking distraction folks, a shell-game for the masses.
19   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 31, 7:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Shibboleth, thanks Pat.
20   Misc   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 2, 4:23am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Tough to say if anything is outta whack by that graph. Over time the size of dwellings increased as well and more amenities were added to apartment complexes. Also, the number of public housing complexes per capita decreased and for a stretch of time the total numbers of public housing units diminished. All that could cause the median rent to escalate.
21   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 2, 7:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Misc says
https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/rent-growth-since-1960/


The problem is that as rents rose, income did not keep pace. The profits went to the powers that be, the rent slaves keep getting a smaller piece of the pie. The owners keep getting bigger portfolios and consolidation of control.

When you factor in that in 1960 most households were supported by a single earner, and today most households require at least 2 wage slaves sometimes working more than one job each, the disparity between 1960 and today becomes even more clear. The American dream morphed into wage slavery. When the bulk of your income for at least 30 years goes to pay some landlord/bankster you are a slave.



Graph from the same article cited above.
22   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 10, 1:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Added this to the OP:

Most political division is visceral and not rational, directly due to one's genetic and economic position in life:

1. Women tend do care much more about "the children" than men do.
2. Men tend to care much more about the integrity of national borders than women do.
3. People who are losing their manual labor jobs to cheap Chinese labor or illegal Mexican labor care much more about immigration than knowledge workers do.
4. People are "educated", much of which is propaganda for the superiority of "educated" people, tend to look down on those who do not have credentials.
5. People who have been in the military tend to approve of hierarchy and the strict application of laws.
6. People in big cities tend to approve of government wealth redistribution programs.

In fact, I bet you could simply add up the tendencies predicted by each aspect of someone's existence and come up with a 95% correct prediction of their political affiliation.
23   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2020 Aug 10, 1:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

When I’ve discussed Covid 19, I’ve tried very hard to focus only on government statements as well as raw data.

Today on a totally unrelated forum someone pointed out a lady from a reality show who through her own stupidity(well documented) got stuck during the epidemic in another country. She finally gets to come back to the US and people on this particular forum(90% female and not all American) starts lambasting her for not quarantining and even suggesting it was child abuse to return to her 6 year old.

I pointed out that children are not particularly at risk for illness due to corona virus and immediately the hysteria began. Multiple posters said I was 100 or 1000 percent wrong. I posted the CDC statement regarding children not being at significant risk and people started posting with all kinds of irrational chow meow ranging from 100,000 kids got covid(arguing against a point I never made) to I’m the kind of person that makes the US screwed up. I said fine, you people think you know more than cdc...whatevs. Eventually i had to delete my comments as the Karen’s were just getting way out of hand.

And the thing is, how do you discuss that matter with anyone under those circumstances. They refuse to believe facts and go on the warpath against anyone that doesn’t conform to their thinking.
24   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 10, 2:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says
how do you discuss that matter with anyone under those circumstances. They refuse to believe facts and go on the warpath against anyone that doesn’t conform to their thinking.


@FuckTheMainstreamMedia

I sympathize. My life is like that. It may be one of those cases where there is nothing at all you could discuss with them.

They are demanding that you conform and obey. They will accept nothing else. They do not want to hear rational arguments, no matter how polite and persuasive.

They are probably doing it out of deep-seated fear, whipped up by the media.

But at least we can discuss this kind of partisan division here. That's something. Maybe we will come to some useful insights.
25   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 10, 8:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
But at least we can discuss this kind of partisan division here. That's something. Maybe we will come to some useful insights.


Political parties serve many purposes and uses.

A politician can use the party to forge a career and acquire wealth and fame.

A wealthy person can use/influence a political party to further their agenda such as making rules that favor their own interests and/or hinder their competition.

A special interest group can use/influence a political party to further their agenda such as making rules that favor their own interests and/or hinder their competition.

So at end of day the partisan divide is about power. The power to further an agenda for personal gain of some sort. Even this great nation which was founded on the ideals of self determination would not exist if it were not for the fact that some wealthy and influential people decided that they would be even more wealthy if England did not have power over them.

Now days the partisan divide is more of a result of indoctrination than anything else. Academia, Media, and Corporate culture promotes a narrative with many followers. That narrative is in near perfect contradiction to Christian Traditions, historical norms, and objective analysis of data.

For example, if racial bigotry is such a problem how is it that a black person was elected president for two terms, a black man and a Hispanic woman were nominated and approved for the Supreme Court by presidents and senators from BOTH parties, and as every year passes the country’s demographics become more and more diverse and less and less “European?” And yet the left trumpets a narrative that racism is the worst problem we face and every inequality in this country stems from racism.

Right wingers on the other hand tend to ignore the fact that corporations have been able to use the government to consolidate control over our lives to the point where we are dependent on them for our Careers, health care, housing, food and other necessities and therefore the corporations have time and again persuaded the government to bail them out when corporations make mistakes and fail to prepare for losses. Essentially corporations have used government to privatize most gains while socializing any losses.

In both examples above partisans are indoctrinated to ignore objective analysis and that is exactly what the powers that be want. They want us all to be uneducated, and fighting against one another because as long as the people continue to argue amongst themselves they cannot unite to take the power back from the elites that have enslaved us.
26   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Aug 10, 9:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

PeopleUnited says
Now days the partisan divide is more of a result of indoctrination than anything else. Academia, Media, and Corporate culture promotes a narrative with many followers. That narrative is in near perfect contradiction to Christian Traditions, historical norms, and objective analysis of data.

Yep.

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