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My response to a relative who sent yet another article mocking Trump and missing the reason he got elected

By Patrick follow Patrick   2020 Oct 23, 9:26am 500 views   29 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


The Democrats have only themselves to blame for the election of Trump because they have so utterly failed in their sole job: the protection of labor from Capital.

Democrats are the party of the elite now, having taken massive bribes from Capital to divide Americans with social issues so that no one would talk about the real issues: the outsourcing of all manufacturing to China and the insourcing of tens of millions of illegals to drive down wages for labor yet further, and the endless wars to please weapons makers.

Trump is the only president in decades not to start a war, and the only one who will talk about the devastation that Democrats have imposed by their betrayal of the working class.

What would you do if your own party sold you out like the Democrats sold out labor? Of course you'd elect someone like Trump.

Trump is the Democrats' own bad karma come back to bite them on the ass, and it was more than justified.

When the media is on your side, you're not the resistance - you're the establishment.
1   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Oct 23, 9:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Editor's note: Capital in that context is spelled with a capital 'C'. Lower case denotes physical capital like factories and equipment, etc.
3   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 23, 10:22am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

TrumpingTits says
Editor's note: Capital in that context is spelled with a capital 'C'. Lower case denotes physical capital like factories and equipment, etc.


OK, will correct, thanks.
4   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 23, 10:22am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Dbr6 says


"Technically correct is the best kind of correct."
5   HeadSet   ignore (2)   2020 Oct 23, 10:35am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

utterly failed in their sole job: the protection of labor from Capital.

Elaboration needed here. Protect labor from Capital without destroying Capital. Otherwise you could just go full Communist and Capital would no longer be a threat. Of course, Capital would no longer be the producer that creates enough to give Labor a fair share.
6   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 23, 10:56am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

What I mean is this:



I like capitalism and think it's a good system, if balanced with protection for labor. Otherwise, all the returns go to the top and everyone else gets impoverished. You get a hereditary aristocracy, which is what we fought a revolution against to begin with.
7   HeadSet   ignore (2)   2020 Oct 23, 11:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I like capitalism and think it's a good system, if balanced with protection for labor.

I think we agree. I would love to see the Dem party go the way of the Whigs and the creation of a true Labor Party, a party that would be pro private sector union and anti illegal immigrant and anti offshoring. There is no point in forcing a $15/hr minimum wage along with expensive (however needed) pollution and safety restrictions when the factory can bypass these rules by building in China. In fact, Biden's agenda sounds like it was written in Beijing as a policy to take manufacturing from the USA.
8   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2020 Oct 23, 12:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
I like capitalism and think it's a good system, if balanced with protection for labor.


I think the only way to protect Labor, is to create upward mobility through economic policies, you can't let political policies dictate wages.
But politically you can make sure the working class a vehicle to nurture through productive saving strategies. Saving should be separate from retirement.
It also shouldn't be oppressively burdensome to get into a business, industry, trade and other small business strategies. This is where run away Capitalism becomes bad. When they lobby for laws and regulation, that just creates a cost for doing business for them, but frustrates the capital of smaller players trying to break in.
When I was 18 I learned how to do carpet, then after 12 months later I bought my own van, and had all my tools, so I set out on my own.
I did mostly designer and custom work, for people I would find at the smaller carpet mills. I showed up at billionaire marinas, the most luxury high rises and homes in Miami and Ft Lauderdale, Today you need three different insurances, a license, and in most other trades a permit. This isn't only in the flooring business, the money you have to lay out do anything in South Florida stops smaller people from getting the jobs. Most contracts go to a few well connected big businesses. Then they still make the installers carry insurance and license.

We need economic policy that doesn't boast about being a gig economy and Service based economy.
Those services just mean, there's more ways to burden poor and middle class with information, or as a middle man for products and goods, where they never existed before.
What good is giving people a raise, if the greedy bastards, are just going to dream up new ways to be a middle man in what you already get without them?
And Gig economy is just a way to really abuse employees and skirt what few needed employment laws already exist.

We basically need to get back to producing, and allowing money to make money by stop manipulating the interest rates, and the Fed printing money for the rich to borrow for free. Instead of allowing them to borrow it from the savers and paying the going interest rates for it.

All $15 an hour min wage will do, is keep the same economic model we have now, just more ways to pay fees and subscriptions, and set the wage across the board low.
9   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 23, 12:23pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Tenpoundbass says
We basically need to get back to producing


I agree.

HeadSet says
There is no point in forcing a $15/hr minimum wage along with expensive (however needed) pollution and safety restrictions when the factory can bypass these rules by building in China.


I agree.

The gutting of US manufacturing by making everything with cheap Chinese labor and no pollution controls is the main problem.

It's good for the Chinese and for US stockholders, but there is a time limit on those benefits. Once the US working class is impoverished to the point where they can no longer buy Chinese goods, the game is over and we are left with a smoking ruin while the Chinese have all the manufacturing ability.
10   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 23, 12:58pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Huh, seems like Robert Reich agrees with me on this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election

Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama helped shift power away from the people towards corporations. It was this that created an opening for Donald Trump


I think Democratic betrayal of the working class goes all the way back to about 1970 though, when you see productivity diverge from wages in that graph above.
11   Misc   ignore (0)   2020 Oct 23, 1:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Neither the Republicans, Democrats or Trumpers dare to put Banksters in jail. Until that changes things will continue to drift downwards.
12   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2020 Oct 23, 1:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      



interesting
13   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 23, 2:13pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
It's good for the Chinese and for US stockholders, but there is a time limit on those benefits. Once the US working class is impoverished to the point where they can no longer buy Chinese goods, the game is over and we are left with a smoking ruin while the Chinese have all the manufacturing ability.
I believe the hope was that opening up to China would allow their country to grow, flourish, and eventually join Western-style governance and trade. Japan successfully transitioned through that phase after WW2. Unfortunately, after 40 years of Western countries sacrificing to "bring it along," it seems that China took all the one-sided help from the rest of the world and has no intention of living up to our expectations and its agreements. It might be possible that other presidents have seen this problem, but Trump is the first one to stand up and try to do something about it. At the moment, that fight is at a standstill waiting for the outcome of the election, but if Biden takes over, it'll go back to the usual sell-out of the USA's future.
14   EBGuy   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 23, 2:24pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

The mechanics of how this transition began are interesting.
Thomas Frank on How Democrats Went From Being the ‘Party of the People’ to the Party of Rich Elites
Frank instead points to a decision by Democratic Party elites in the 1970s to marginalize labor unions and transform from the party of the working class to the party of the professional class. In so doing, the Democratic Party radically changed the way it understood social problems and how to solve them, trading in the principle of solidarity for the principle of competitive individualism and meritocracy.
Frank:
Historians always cite the ’68 election as the turning point. The party was torn apart by the controversy over the Vietnam war, protesters were in the streets in Chicago and the Democratic candidate Hubert Humphrey went on to lose. Democrats thought this was terrible, and it was. So they set up a commission to reorganize the party, the McGovern Commission. The McGovern Commission basically set up our modern system of primaries. Before the commission, we didn’t have these long primary contests in state after state after state. Primaries are a good thing, as were most things the McGovern Commission did. But they also removed organized labor from its structural position of power in the Democratic Party. There was a lot of resentment towards labor during the Vietnam War. A lot of unions took President Johnson’s side on Vietnam. There was also this sense—which I think was correct at the time—that labor was a dinosaur, that it was out of touch and undemocratic and very white. There were a lot of reasonable objections to organized labor at the time. The problem is, when you get rid of labor in your party, you also get rid of issues that matter to working people.
15   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Oct 23, 2:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says

OK, will correct, thanks.

That was more for informative purposes, not to nit pick. It would be what an editor would (should) point out if you were to have them review a book or article manuscript, for example. :)
16   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Oct 23, 2:51pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

HeadSet says
Otherwise you could just go full Communist and Capital would no longer be a threat. Of course, Capital would no longer be the producer that creates enough to give Labor a fair share.


Or, as the old Soviet saying (developed in multiple languages even!), We pretend to work; they pretend to pay us.

Former boss I had who was Russian was amazed that I knew that one. Flat out impressed.
17   Onvacation   ignore (5)   2020 Oct 23, 2:58pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      



But what's the plan?
18   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Oct 23, 3:03pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
I like capitalism and think it's a good system, if balanced with protection for labor. Otherwise, all the returns go to the top and everyone else gets impoverished. You get a hereditary aristocracy, which is what we fought a revolution against to begin with.


That chart compares wages vs productivity, not wages vs profits or even gross revenues or (better yet) net value produced, which would be far more meaningful.

And we all know the reasons for this: Has everything to do with outsourcing, 'free trade' no matter what productivity increases happen. Especially when talking about 'goods producing' labor, which excludes service producing labor.

Example:

Light manufacturer, pre-outbuttfucking (offshoring):

500 employees producing $100 million in goods means employee output of $200,000 per worker.

Firm then outsources most production, imports that for some final assembly work. Lays off a bunch of workers. Business increases from cheaper prices they can offer consumers so they don't lay off as much as they normally could:

100 employees 'producing' $200 million in goods means employee output of $2 million per worker. Offshore workers don't count, since we are talking about productivity of US workers vs wages here.

But those 100 employees have little bargaining power even with a Demtarded, mafia-ridden union 'representing' them. Esp when those 400 employees that were let go would probably be more than happy to replace those still-employed workers, which both Management and Labor damn well know.

Note: Immigration both legal and illegal further contributes to helping out Management's bargaining position.

Then there is automation. But the full effects apply mostly to those workers offshore who benefited from the original offshoring. US workers who lost their jobs to them already lost them, so automation won't be a factor for them anymore. The offshored workers will lose out to automation whether that automation is applied still to the offshored manufacturer or if production is 're-inshored' to an automated facility in the US again.

STILL, a lot of secondary and tertiary support work for re-shored factories would generate more jobs here at home. That and cutting back on immigration at the same time.
19   Eric Holder   ignore (0)   2020 Oct 23, 4:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

TrumpingTits says
STILL, a lot of secondary and tertiary support work for re-shored factories would generate more jobs here at home.


Factories require more energy. While demonrats are hellbent on reducing the amount of energy produced in the US.
20   Automan Empire   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 23, 4:32pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
What would you do if your own party sold you out like the Democrats sold out labor?


Politics as sportsball again. What would Republicans do if their own party sold them out to oligarchs and put two falsely justified wars on a credit card, then hobbled us with the Patriot Act and TSA? Oh yeah, they would re-elect W in a jingoistic orgy.

I dislike our two party system. Trump, or Biden, is a choice between two bundles of problems and compromises. I dislike Trump, and the performance of the Republican party during my whole life, and now the Democrats are not an alternative I can identify with and get enthusiastic about either.

Sucks to be an average American under such a system.
21   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Oct 23, 4:38pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Eric Holder says
Factories require more energy.

They require a lot less energy than they used to. That is also part of productivity increasing.
22   Eric Holder   ignore (0)   2020 Oct 23, 5:15pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

TrumpingTits says
Eric Holder says
Factories require more energy.

They require a lot less energy than they used to. That is also part of productivity increasing.


Still more than no factories at all.
23   Automan Empire   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 23, 5:51pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Rank and file political debate under the pseudo two party system.

25   mell   ignore (6)   2020 Oct 23, 6:53pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Automan Empire says
Rank and file political debate under the pseudo two party system.



Def truth to this. As much as the occupy leftoids have been completely taken advantage of by the cultural marxists many "free-market" tea partiers throw their hands up when I tell them the banks should have been "nationalized" and claim they can't loan out cheap money to them anymore once under "big government" but nationalized doesn't mean big government bureaucracy in this context, it means the taxpayers who bailed out the banks should have become the shareholders with voting rights and profit share as the regular stockholders. Then they come with "but they paid it back with interest mostly" but if your discount window is eternal and cheap enough you eventually will make enough money to pay it back at the cost of inflation. Either no bailouts or make the taxpayers shareholders.
26   Onvacation   ignore (5)   2020 Oct 29, 6:38am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Automan Empire says
What would Republicans

Fuck the Republicans. Vote for Trump.
27   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Oct 29, 9:13am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Eric Holder says
Still more than no factories at all.


Manufacturing output in this country was going up even before Trump came into office while energy required for each manufactured product produced has gone down.
28   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Oct 29, 9:27am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Onvacation says
Automan Empire says
What would Republicans

Fuck the Republicans. Vote for Trump.


Trump really is his own party.

He is a better Democrat that most Democrats by supporting labor, working to limit illegals and outsourcing to China.
29   Eric Holder   ignore (0)   2020 Oct 29, 9:46am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says

He is a better Democrat that most Democrats by supporting labor, working to limit illegals and outsourcing to China.


He's basically a pre-NAFTA, pre-China-in-WTO democrat.

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