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Bitcoin Misinformation


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2020 Nov 10, 10:01am   94,993 views  2,057 comments

by Onvacation   ➕follow (3)   💰tip   ignore  



In my opinion, it’s a colossal pump-and-dump scheme, the likes of which the world has never seen. In a pump-and-dump game, promoters “pump” up the price of a security creating a speculative frenzy, then “dump” some of their holdings at artificially high prices. And some cryptocurrencies are pure frauds. Ernst & Young estimates that 10 percent of the money raised for initial coin offerings has been stolen.

The losers are ill-informed buyers caught up in the spiral of greed. The result is a massive transfer of wealth from ordinary families to internet promoters. And “massive” is a massive understatement — 1,500 different cryptocurrencies now register over $300 billion of “value.”

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/24/17275202/bitcoin-scam-cryptocurrency-mining-pump-dump-fraud-ico-value

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1   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 10:04am  

"It helps to understand that a bitcoin has no value at all."
2   epitaph   2020 Nov 10, 10:13am  

I'm not gonna give vox a click through.
3   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 10:16am  

1. Means of Payment. Bitcoins are accepted almost nowhere, and some cryptocurrencies nowhere at all. Even where accepted, a currency whose value can swing 10 percent or more in a single day is useless as a means of payment.
4   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 10:24am  

2. Store of Value. Extreme price volatility also makes bitcoin undesirable as a store of value. And the storehouses — the cryptocurrency trading exchanges — are far less reliable and trustworthy than ordinary banks and brokers
5   Tenpoundbass   2020 Nov 10, 10:24am  

Any reasonable person that is thinking clearly could not come to any other collusion, other than it is a colossal pump and dump scam.

After all of the Bitcoin is mined, and the billions of dollars has been made. Who's going to keep the servers up and going?
If it's a self fulfilling service fee they'll get for administering the transactions and hosting the data. Then they have a blank check to constantly raise transaction fees, and even start charging people for having Bitcoin.
Plus the main goal of everyone that I ever knew that bought into Bitcoin, it was not so they could have an alternate way for buying goods and services. Almost 20 years later, and there's no real way to spend Bitcoin in your every day transactions.
So everyone buying is only doing so, to pump it up to the point they think it's going to drop then everyone wants to dump and make their money back plus some.
It's a money making scheme for everyone involved. Not a stable currency that any thinking person would want any part of.

Who would want any USD $, if there was a constant possibility that you go to bed with a Hundred Dollar bill in your pocket only to wake up with $1 bill in your pocket?
6   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 11:14am  

3. Thing in Itself. A bitcoin has no intrinsic value. It only has value if people think other people will buy it for a higher price — the Greater Fool theory.
7   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 1:30pm  

TrumpingTits says

It has some intrinsic value for sure. As people wouldn't be using it for trading amongst each other.

Not really used for transactions. Miners sell them after they "win" new coins. Most new coins are bought by people who hope to sell them to someone for more than they bought them for. I don't think anyone buys expecting to lose or break even.

I still hold that Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. It is dependent on the next greatest fool for it to increase in value.
8   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 1:32pm  

Cryptocurrency is best-suited for one use: Criminal activity. Because transactions can be anonymous — law enforcement cannot easily trace who buys and sells — its use is dominated by illegal endeavors.

Most heavy users of bitcoin are criminals, such as Silk Road and WannaCry ransomware. Too many bitcoin exchanges have experienced spectacular heists, such as NiceHash and Coincheck, or outright fraud, such as Mt. Gox and Bitfunder. Way too many Initial Coin Offerings are scams — 418 of the 902 ICOs in 2017 have already failed.
9   Cash   2020 Nov 10, 1:58pm  

Bitcoin Will 10X Compared to Gold, Says JP Morgan
https://cryptobriefing.com/bitcoin-will-10x-compared-gold-says-jp-morgan/

Take it to the bank dummies lmhao Banks coulldn't beat crypto so only other choice if they want a piece of the pie is joining the
smart contract/blockchain revolution.. My calc. is BTC24000/XAU2400
10   Cash   2020 Nov 10, 2:03pm  

Such a bad case of old man syndrome concerning smart contract/blockchain technology they will be dead before they catch on....
https://twitter.com/WeissCrypto/status/1324760982590205955
Totally agree with these boys ;)
11   MisdemeanorRebel   2020 Nov 10, 2:07pm  

"Government fiat money has the value of public opinion, influenced by government"

Well shucks, where does bitcoin get it's value from?

Also Public Opinion, influenced by Shills on the internet.
12   Shaman   2020 Nov 10, 2:16pm  

No money has any intrinsic value.
A brick has intrinsic value, as does a bushel of corn, or a pork belly or a gallon of gasoline.
Money itself only has whatever value the majority of people decide that it has.
And the value of certain items or properties has whatever value two people agree that they have.
Value is just a shared fantasy.
If you were the only person in the world, NOTHING would have any value at all, at least as it pertains to trading. The only valuable things would be whatever you found useful to sustain your life and make it worth living.
13   Bitcoin   2020 Nov 10, 2:29pm  

@ Cash/Others,
Any experience with buying crypto with an IRA account?
14   Bitcoin   2020 Nov 10, 2:32pm  

Thinking onvacation is trolling us or is a gold bug that sees Bitcoin as a threat to his stash. Why else post misinformation and do the name calling thing. He seems a bit too riled up about Bitcoin.
15   MisdemeanorRebel   2020 Nov 10, 2:37pm  

BUY IRAQI DINARS!
16   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 2:39pm  

G36 says
Thinking onvacation is trolling us or is a gold bug that sees Bitcoin as a threat to his stash. Why else post misinformation and do the name calling thing. He seems a bit too riled up about Bitcoin.

I never directly called you a fool I said that I think people who buy Bitcoin as an investment are foolish, especially the HODLers. Debate me and tell me where I am wrong. Otherwise this is just a personal attack.
17   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 2:48pm  

Shaman says
No money has any intrinsic value.

I disagree. For many millennia silver, gold, and base metals have been used as money. They have other practical uses, thus intrinsic value.

A penny or nickel have intrinsic value. All of the current world currencies are backed by the faith and good credit of the issuing country. I guess you could use some bills to start a fire or wipe your ass and you can trade them for things of real value, like silver and gold, but they have no intrinsic value.
From wiki:

An intrinsic theory of value (also called theory of objective value) is any theory of value in economics which holds that the value of an object, good or service, is intrinsic, meaning that it can be estimated using objective measures. Most such theories look to the process of producing an item, and the costs involved in that process, as a measure of the item's intrinsic value. Paradigmatically, money is supposed to be good, but not intrinsically good: it is supposed to be good because it leads to other good things, such as buying better teaching equipments at a local primary school.[1] The explanation aims to differentiate the original meaning of intrinsic value from the actual physical benefit it has.

as opposed to subjective value:

The subjective theory of value is a theory of value which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property of the good, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce the good, but instead value is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends

People often don't differentiate between the two.
18   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 2:52pm  

Don't forget the old saying, "If you don't know who the fool in the game is, it might be you".

No doubt people make money from crypto, but only money that others lose and at great expense in energy consumption.
19   Bitcoin   2020 Nov 10, 3:13pm  

Onvacation says
G36 says
Thinking onvacation is trolling us or is a gold bug that sees Bitcoin as a threat to his stash. Why else post misinformation and do the name calling thing. He seems a bit too riled up about Bitcoin.

Debate me and tell me where I am wrong.


You said the last Bitcoin will be mined in 2040 but couldnt provide a source. Than you finally admitted you were wrong and that the last Bitcoin will be mined in 2140.

You first said you only invest in food and entertainment because you are on vacation. Later on you admitted you lied and you are investing in mutual funds.

You also said you researched Bitcoin yet you dont even know the key traits of Bitcoin (decentralization, scarcity, cannot be counterfeited). You either never researched it, or you did a lousy job or you are a troll.
20   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 3:13pm  

Hackers are getting into the act. It’s estimated that 90 percent of all remote hacking is now focused on bitcoin theft by commandeering other people’s computers to mine coins
21   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 3:15pm  

G36 says
You either never researched it, or you did a lousy job or you are a troll

LOL. Hook, line, and sinker.
22   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 3:16pm  

G36 says
You first said you only invest in food and entertainment

I never said that.
23   Bitcoin   2020 Nov 10, 3:17pm  

Onvacation says
G36 says
You either never researched it, or you did a lousy job or you are a troll

LOL. Hook, line, and sinker.


How else do you explain your ignorance? You were 100 years off. and you dont know/understand the key traits of Bitcoin.
24   Bitcoin   2020 Nov 10, 3:22pm  

Onvacation says
G36 says
You first said you only invest in food and entertainment

I never said that.


aaaand more lies
25   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 3:22pm  

G36 says
How else do you explain your ignorance? You were 100 years off. and you dont know/understand the key traits of Bitcoin.

LOL
26   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 3:34pm  

G36 says
Onvacation says
G36 says
You first said you only invest in food and entertainment

I never said that.


aaaand more lies

I never said I ONLY invest in food and entertainment.

Calm down dude. There are a lot of trolls out there. I am telling you my fact based opinion on bitcoin.

I had a friend who's son was an early adopter back when you could "mine" bitcoin on your PC fairly easily. He accumulated so many "coins" that when btc hit its all time high he was a bitcoin "millionaire" He sold a few coins, had a great time, btc went down, and now he is almost a bitcoin millionaire.

Who cares?

We have more than one paper millionaire on this forum. Hard work or luck make us wealthy. I have always believed in hard work, dollar cost averaging, and honest dealing with mutual gain. I have always told my kids the harder you work now the less hard you will have to work later. Find a career you can be passionate about and make the world a better place.

Success is not a destination you arrive at it is an altitude you fly at.

Bitcoin does not make the world a better place. Please don't take my criticism personally.
27   Bitcoin   2020 Nov 10, 3:40pm  

Onvacation says
.

. I am telling you my fact based opinion on bitcoin.

.


your facts dont make it actual facts :)





Before you post any of your facts you should provide links....that helps you to fact check yourself :)
28   NDrLoR   2020 Nov 10, 3:42pm  

Onvacation says
Success is not a destination you arrive at it is an altitude you fly at
And why successful people are still going to be successful under either a right or left administration. Also why losers are never going to be successful regardless of all the government subsidies they receive.
29   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 4:22pm  

G36 says
Before you post any of your facts you should provide links....that helps you to fact check yourself

Why? We can fact check each other.

I think we are both more informed about crypto.

Good day sir.
30   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 6:44pm  

Even ordinary buyers are flouting the law. Tax law requires that every sale of cryptocurrency be recorded as a capital gain or loss and, of course, most bitcoin sellers fail to do so. The IRS recently ordered one major exchange to produce records of every significant transaction.

And yet, a prominent Silicon Valley promoter of bitcoin proclaims that “Bitcoin is going to transform society ... Bitcoin’s been very resilient. It stayed alive during a very difficult time when there was the Silk Road mess, when Mt. Gox stole all that Bitcoin ...” He argues the criminal activity shows that bitcoin is strong. I’d say it shows that bitcoin is used for criminal activity.
31   HeadSet   2020 Nov 10, 6:50pm  

He argues the criminal activity shows that bitcoin is strong. I’d say it shows that bitcoin is used for criminal activity.

Yep, any victim of ransomware could tell you that.
32   Patrick   2020 Nov 10, 7:05pm  

Shaman says
No money has any intrinsic value.


Right, not even gold really has intrinsic value aside from betting pretty and conducting electricity well.

From my own book (readme.txt in the header above):

Money is control over labor. No one is wealthy without workers.

To be rich is to make others obey you. Money sets you free by capturing others.

Money makes you do what you didn't want to do.

Money is not as real as most people think. It depends on belief.

Money is worth what you can buy with it.
If there is nothing to buy, money has no worth.
What you can buy depends on the number of working people.

The rich drive up costs for the poor when they buy, especially real estate.

The rich have many people dependent on them for some service, which is how they
in turn get others to serve them. "He is in software" or "He is in
manufacturing" means that he has control over software or some good that people
need, and therefore people will serve him to get it, or serve those who serve
him in a wide and obscure loop, but always a loop. You don't do for others
without others doing for you -- unless you love them.

The money loop runs in the opposite direction from actual goods and services.
Whomever you pay ultimately pays your boss.

What makes money is what happens. What does not make money does not happen.

How can I get your money? Business, theft, taxation, fines, donations.

The only sure way to protect money is to spend it.

Money can't buy love, being the opposite of love.

Lawyer: What did you do with the loot from the bank robbery?
Defendant: I spent most of it on hookers and coke. The rest I wasted.
33   Bitcoin   2020 Nov 10, 7:35pm  

Onvacation says
Even ordinary buyers are flouting the law. Tax law requires that every sale of cryptocurrency be recorded as a capital gain or loss and, of course, most bitcoin sellers fail to do so. The IRS recently ordered one major exchange to produce records of every significant transaction.

.


Not one but most major exchanges report to the IRS
https://www.forbes.com/sites/shehanchandrasekera/2020/01/27/how-the-irs-knows-you-owe-crypto-taxes/?sh=6d20db71438e
Good. You want some regulation and a clear tax framework. There are still questions they are working on (for instance staking rewards).

The entire, Bitcoin-is-only-used-by-criminals and Bitcoin investors dont pay taxes is total trash. The number of Bitcoin addresses (users) increases steadily and many Nasdaq listed companies invest in Bitcoin either directly or indirectly (Paypal, Square, Microstrategies). Now Billionaire Hedge Fund Manager Stan Druckenmiller (Druckenmiller is among the 400 wealthiest investors) has invested in Bitcoin.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3633845-stanley-druckenmiller-buys-bitcoin

Where is the proof/indication that most traders/companies dont record their taxes? Just another try to bash without any weblinks/proof. The header of this thread really is very fitting : "Bitcoin Misinformation". That's really what onvacation does, spread misinformation. No offense, but I would call it trolling.

Does anyone here know if onvacation invests/holds gold/silver? He acts like someone who is seeing Bitcoin as a threat.
34   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 9:17pm  

Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia
Search domain en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_schemehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
A Ponzi scheme (/ ˈ p ɒ n z i /, Italian: ; also a Ponzi game) is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors. The scheme leads victims to believe that profits are coming from product sales or other means, and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of funds.
35   Onvacation   2020 Nov 10, 9:35pm  

Who's gonna fund the next bitcoin millionaire?
36   just_passing_through   2020 Nov 10, 9:42pm  

I thought this video was educational:

www.youtube.com/embed/FJ-0b6NLo4Q
38   WookieMan   2020 Nov 11, 5:31am  

Literally everything is a scheme to part you from your money. Crypto is no different. Vacations part you from your money. It's the return that matters. Emotional, monetary, etc. I'll take a vacation 10 out of 10 times over investing in crypto is my perspective. If you choose to invest in crypto, that's your decision. The money is going to be taken from you at some point either way or given to heirs. Might was well enjoy life as stress free as possible. Crypto is stress by definition. And for that reason, I'm out.
39   Onvacation   2020 Nov 11, 6:39am  

"Bitcoin is absurdly wasteful of natural resources. Because it is so compute-intensive, it takes as much electricity to create a single bitcoin — a process called “mining” — as it does to power an average American household for two years. If bitcoin were used for a large portion of the world’s commerce (which won’t happen), it would consume a very large portion of the world’s electricity, diverting scarce power from useful purposes."
40   Onvacation   2020 Nov 11, 7:53am  

"Bitcoin is scheduled to hit the 20.5 million mark by 2030. Considering that there will only ever be 21 million bitcoin in existence, this means that it will take approximately 110 years for the next 500,000 coins to be mined. “Considering how many BTC will be lost at that point and how distributed the economy should be, 500k more coins to mine will be a lot of coins,” one user wrote. "

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