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Vaccination: Can Your Employer Force You To Take Them?


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2021 May 5, 8:12pm   672 views  50 comments

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Ok...trying this again. But if I so much as get ANY crap from @EBGuy, I don't care about what the 'rules' say. I shall unleash. FYI @Patrick

Context: VP at work told us we will start going back into the office 'soon'. Everyone will be required to be there at least 3 days a week. And it has to be the same days the rest of the team is because of something called 'teamwork synergy'.

Nevermind asking, "WTF was going on when everyone was working remotely with Slack and Zoom then?"

Then I found out thru the grapevine that when this goes down, everyone will be required to be COVID vaccinated.

Except that legally from what I can determine they can't do that.

This is because the vaccines are not FDA approved yet. That won't happen for another two years, at least. What approval they have now is called Emergency Use Authorization. EUA, for short. Memorize that acronym as you will no doubt be hearing about it more and more.

Congress set explicit language in the EUA law that says that NO ONE can be forced to take the EUA vaccinations. Not even hospital workers.

AND, most states have laws that allow you to sue an employer if they fire you for refusing to not comply with federal laws as well as state ones. This includes getting full reimbursement for legal fees from the employer, in addition to the usual damages.

I do not know if this is the case in CA.

There are other articles out there where EEOC and California's commie equivalents have issued GUIDELINES or GUIDANCES that say otherwise. Guidelines have no force of law to them, tho. So they are all legal bullshit.

But what the real thing you must know is that nothing has gone to court yet over this. And until some lawsuits happen followed by establishment of case law on this subject, the above can still be up in the air in actuality.

Now, this alone would make one think that legal depts for every company out there would warn management that they can't require COVIDE vaccinations on employees against their will until some judge...probably SCOTUS ones...say they can, damn the law Congress wrote.

Which means...in my opinion....companies that tow this line are really bluffing. All one has to do is refuse to comply and they will fold, on an individual case-by-case basis.

But that is just MY OPINION. This post is not meant to be a form of any real legal advice and you should consult with a licensed attorney if you really want to get any VALID dirt this or any other subject of the law that you read on-line.

Reading material: https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

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1   richwicks   2021 May 5, 8:18pm  

Draw up a legal form to make your employer financially responsible for any adverse effects.

Any lawyers here?

Everybody should do this with any employer requiring the vaccination. The companies that produce these "vaccines" are immune, and you're being pressured into taking them. If they are completely safe, your employer should have no problem covering any unforeseen damages to you, including life insurance.
2   Shaman   2021 May 5, 9:14pm  

richwicks says
Everybody should do this with any employer requiring the vaccination. The companies that produce these "vaccines" are immune, and you're being pressured into taking them. If they are completely safe, your employer should have no problem covering any unforeseen damages to you, including life insurance.


Awesome! Sharing this!
3   stfu   2021 May 6, 3:53am  

Thanks @HunterTits. I work on medical devices and know it's only a matter of time before my employer codifies this requirement into the ghost-ware that is the employee handbook.
4   Robert Sproul   2021 May 6, 7:07am  

HunterTits says
This is because the vaccines are not FDA approved yet. That won't happen for another two years, at least.

I think full approval will get fast-tracked and happen much sooner. The Evil Elf said Wednesday he hopes Covid-19 vaccines will receive full FDA approval “very soon,” and that the FDA will work “as expeditiously as possible” on approval applications for coronavirus vaccines as they come in.
5   RWSGFY   2021 May 6, 7:29am  

Forge the vacc card now. They are still not standartized and there is no central database yet, so it's perfect time.
6   porkchopXpress   2021 May 6, 7:30am  

richwicks says
Everybody should do this with any employer requiring the vaccination. The companies that produce these "vaccines" are immune, and you're being pressured into taking them. If they are completely safe, your employer should have no problem covering any unforeseen damages to you, including life insurance.
I agree this is a great idea, but good luck proving it. They've already been so good at deflecting any side effects as something else like anxiety.
7   NuttBoxer   2021 May 6, 10:23am  

Under Nuremberg code, it's illegal to force anyone to participate in a study, i.e. take experimental drugs. See my post for forms you can submit to deter such nonsense.
8   Shaman   2021 May 6, 10:32am  

I doubt we have any lawyers on Patnet, but if so, could anyone create a boilerplate document that assigns all vaccine risk to the employer requiring vaccination?

Here’s a relevant article about the lawsuits being filed already against companies and governments over illegal vaccine mandates.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/can-you-be-fired-for-refusing-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-america-is-about-to-find-out-11620237075
9   NuttBoxer   2021 May 6, 10:34am  

Shaman says
I doubt we have any lawyers on Patnet, but if so, could anyone create a boilerplate document that assigns all vaccine risk to the employer requiring vaccination?


https://patrick.net/post/1339092/2021-05-06-forms-to-submit-to-employer-or-school-m
10   Shaman   2021 May 6, 10:40am  

I doubt we have any lawyers on Patnet, but if so, could anyone create a boilerplate document that assigns all vaccine risk to the employer requiring vaccination?
Oh I see your link now Nuttboxer, great info! Resharing your link here:

https://home.solari.com/employer-school-disclosure-form-for-covid-19-injections/

Here’s a relevant article about the lawsuits being filed already against companies and governments over illegal vaccine mandates.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/can-you-be-fired-for-refusing-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-america-is-about-to-find-out-11620237075
11   Robert Sproul   2021 May 6, 11:01am  

They plan to get around all of this by accelerating the full approvals by a full 2 years.
May 4 (UPI) -- "Drugmaker Pfizer said Tuesday it earned $3.5 billion from sales of its COVID-19 vaccine in the first three months of 2021, and plans to ask federal regulators for full approval of the shot by the end of this month -- and could have an emergency approval to offer it to teens in days."
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/05/04/pfizer-earnings-fda-approval-covid-vaccine/5591620130894/
12   zzyzzx   2021 May 6, 11:06am  

Robert Sproul says
They plan to get around all of this by accelerating the full approvals by a full 2 years.


Typical Democrat strategy... Don't like the rules, so they break them or change them.
14   WookieMan   2021 May 6, 11:11am  

Robert Sproul says
They plan to get around all of this by accelerating the full approvals by a full 2 years.
May 4 (UPI) -- "Drugmaker Pfizer said Tuesday it earned $3.5 billion from sales of its COVID-19 vaccine in the first three months of 2021, and plans to ask federal regulators for full approval of the shot by the end of this month -- and could have an emergency approval to offer it to teens in days."
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/05/04/pfizer-earnings-fda-approval-covid-vaccine/5591620130894/

I'm still 5 years away from touching the stuff, if ever. FDA approves shit that kills people all the time. Beauty of self employment though.

I've made the reference multiple times, but if I need a vaccine "passport" for travel, it opens pandoras box. I want to know that everyone was vaccinated for every common ailment. Who has AIDS or other transmobile diseases. The list is endless. We go this route, you won't get into a grocery store without full medical records. We're entering fucked up territory, if not already in it.
16   Eric Holder   2021 May 6, 12:29pm  

WookieMan says
I've made the reference multiple times, but if I need a vaccine "passport" for travel, it opens pandoras box. I want to know that everyone was vaccinated for every common ailment. Who has AIDS or other transmobile diseases. The list is endless. We go this route, you won't get into a grocery store without full medical records. We're entering fucked up territory, if not already in it.


Lancet:


In the past decade, tuberculosis incidence has declined in much of the world, but has risen in central and South America. It is not yet clear what is driving this reversal of progress in tuberculosis control.
...
Tuberculosis kills more people than any other infectious disease, and in 2018 led to 1·2 million deaths and an additional 251 000 deaths among people living with HIV.1
Despite enhanced control efforts, substantial research advances, and increased funding,2
in recent years global tuberculosis incidence has declined only slowly, at a rate of 1–2% per year.1
Alarmingly, in central and South America, tuberculosis incidence has stagnated or risen.1
This reversal in progress against tuberculosis is not fully understood.


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32578-2/fulltext

Will TB tests be required too? How come everybody from the TB hotspot is welcome to waltz through our Southern border as they please?
17   WookieMan   2021 May 6, 1:00pm  

ThreeBays says
Nothing says vaccines have to take 2 more years for FDA approval. Pfizer's said they're filing for full FDA approval this month.

So once it's FDA approved I can sue their asses if I get sick from taking it? Unless it for sure saves my life, like polio vaccine, I'm out anyway most likely. I'm not anti-vax at all. I don't need the flu shot, haven't taken it, and have gotten the flu. Boom, I'm still here annoying you ;)

Almost no one needs the vax. It's all under the guise of "going back to normal" as people keep preaching. Just do it. No. I don't think any healthy individual should get it or should be wearing masks. The disease itself is completely mundane in 90% of people. Some get it bad, and from that batch 99% live that weren't half dead and in nursing homes. This data is indisputable.
18   WookieMan   2021 May 6, 1:02pm  

Eric Holder says
Will TB tests be required too? How come everybody from the TB hotspot is welcome to waltz through our Southern border as they please?

Exactly. No one with a contagious disease should be allowed to walk around anymore. I mean how did we even survive before? We should all be dead.
19   Eric Holder   2021 May 6, 1:06pm  

WookieMan says
So once it's FDA approved I can sue their asses if I get sick from taking it?


Nope, can't do it for a product approved as a vaccine. There is a compensation fund for some limited payouts to the victims, but that's it.
20   B.A.C.A.H.   2021 May 6, 1:17pm  

Of course they can't.

But employment is "At Will".
21   mell   2021 May 6, 1:35pm  

Ah the perks of wfh include not getting jabbed with an experimental biological agent. Doubt it will be mandated anywhere outside of healthcare or useless government jobs since the employer is liable for damages, but strongly encouraged likely. Either way just wfh, you don't want to mingle with woke millennial and boomers anyways.
22   EBGuy   2021 May 6, 2:12pm  

I think what you're looking for is Phase IV : post-marketing surveillance (PMS) studies
Adverse reactions that occur in fewer than 1 in 3,000 – 5,000 patients are unlikely to be detected in Phase I – III investigational clinical trials, and may be unknown at the time a drug is approved. These rare adverse reactions are more likely to be detected when large numbers of patients are exposed to a drug after it has been approved and marketed....
Conducting such general, open-label PMS studies is a regulatory requirement in countries such as Japan and the Philippines. In India, PMS data used to be submitted to the Drugs Controller General of India (DCGI) within 2 years of launch.

That said, it may be tough to get your employer to wait two years for the PMS studies to come in...
23   Eric Holder   2021 May 6, 3:58pm  

EBGuy says
it may be tough to get your employer to wait two years for the PMS studies to come in...


That's why forged vacc card is the best play.
24   Onvacation   2021 May 6, 4:08pm  

Eric Holder says

That's why forged vacc card is the best play.

Stopping Vacc card forgery will be the FBI's top priority after they have caught all of the insurrectionists.
25   NuttBoxer   2021 May 6, 4:18pm  

Eric Holder says
That's why forged vacc card is the best play.


As Corbett pointed out in a recent video, the easy forging of the current cards is probably intentional. Creates the foundation for mandating digital ones, inserted under the skin. We all know anything can be hacked, but that will definitely up the difficulty quite a bit. The long game her is not forgery, but refusal. Once we give up control of our own bodies, we give up control of ourselves.
26   Onvacation   2021 May 6, 4:32pm  

Submitting forged "vaccination" cards in a sense is consent to having vaccination cards.
27   Eric Holder   2021 May 6, 4:35pm  

Onvacation says
Eric Holder says

That's why forged vacc card is the best play.

Stopping Vacc card forgery will be the FBI's top priority after they have caught all of the insurrectionists.


Good luck with that. As it stands now even if you had your jab and lost the card in many cases it won't be possible to restore it and they admit as much. The record keeping for the whole operation is pretty shitty.
28   Eric Holder   2021 May 6, 4:54pm  

Onvacation says
Submitting forged "vaccination" cards in a sense is consent to having vaccination cards.


Maybe. But sure beats two other alternatives for most people: getting a real jab or "taking that shit all the way to SCOTUS". Besides, for a "test case" all you need is one plaintiff.
29   Eric Holder   2021 May 6, 5:22pm  

ThreeBays says
Forging vaccination records would easily carry criminal penalties.


How do you envision this would unfold? Suppose you're an employer being presented by this vacc card by your employee:



Is it real?

What about this one?



Which one is fake? How did you figure? What's you next step? What will be the PC for the prosecution? Your WAG? You'll be laughed out of town.
30   GNL   2021 May 6, 6:10pm  

NuttBoxer says
Once we give up control of our own bodies, we give up control of ourselves.

This is the entire fight. This could not be more true.
31   Patrick   2021 May 6, 6:19pm  

ThreeBays says
Forging vaccination records would easily carry criminal penalties.


Of course. The goal is political control and profit, not public health.

You will likely have to prove that you submit to the absolute unconstitutional authority of CNN/China/Amazon or you will go to jail.

It's also a nice excuse to track everyone you ever get near, in case they also have uppity ideas.

KNOW YOU PLACE, PEASANT!
32   Eric Holder   2021 May 6, 6:22pm  

Patrick says
ThreeBays says
Forging vaccination records would easily carry criminal penalties.


Of course. The goal is political control and profit, not public health.

You will likely have to prove that you submit to the absolute unconstitutional authority of CNN/China/Amazon or you will go to jail.

It's also a nice excuse to track everyone you ever get near, in case they also have uppity ideas.

KNOW YOU PLACE, PEASANT!


They are bluffing. There is no practical way to catch/prosecute any meaningful number of individuals presenting forged vacc cards. Especially DIY cards. The best they could hope for is to catch forgers who are selling them over the Interwebz.
33   Patrick   2021 May 6, 6:28pm  

It could pretty easily be done via a website. You show id, and they just look up your right to be a human being on such a website.

If you have no proof of compliance with the will of China, then you will have no right to be a human being.

I think that might really happen, especially with Jo Bi-Den occupying the White House for China.
34   Eric Holder   2021 May 6, 6:35pm  

Patrick says
It could pretty easily be done via a website. You show id, and they just look up your right to be a human being on such a website.


There is no such thing at the moment. That's the whole point: they don't have a good consolidated database of who was vaxxed by now. Then there's that little pesky thing called HIPAA....
35   Booger   2021 May 6, 6:43pm  

ThreeBays says
Forging vaccination records would easily carry criminal penalties.


There is pretty much no law enforcement being done anyway.
36   Onvacation   2021 May 6, 6:49pm  

Booger says

There is pretty much no law enforcement being done anyway.

Oh yeah? Tell that to the grandma they're searching for for being part of the insurrection.
37   mell   2021 May 6, 6:52pm  

Onvacation says
Booger says

There is pretty much no law enforcement being done anyway.

Oh yeah? Tell that to the grandma they're searching for for being part of the insurrection.


I think work from home will become more and more popular. And mandated vaccination, esp. with such little covid activity, will cause more worker shortages already on top of those simply living on covid checks.
38   Robert Sproul   2021 May 6, 7:01pm  

FBI
March 30, 2021

Alert Number
I-033021-PSA
Questions regarding this PSA should be directed to your local FBI Field Office.
Local Field Office Locations: www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices If You Make or Buy a Fake COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card, You Endanger Yourself and Those Around You, and You Are Breaking the Law
The Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Inspector General (HHS-OIG) and the FBI are advising the public to be aware of individuals selling fake COVID-19 vaccination record cards and encouraging others to print fake cards at home. Fake vaccination record cards have been advertised on social media websites, as well as e-commerce platforms and blogs.
Vaccination record cards are intended to provide recipients of the COVID-19 vaccine with information about the type of vaccine they received, and when they may be able to receive a second dose of the vaccine. If you did not receive the vaccine, do not buy fake vaccine cards, do not make your own vaccine cards, and do not fill-in blank vaccination record cards with false information. By misrepresenting yourself as vaccinated when entering schools, mass transit, workplaces, gyms, or places of worship, you put yourself and others around you at risk of contracting COVID-19. Additionally, the unauthorized use of an official government agency's seal (such as HHS or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)) is a crime, and may be punishable under Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017, and other applicable laws.
Because individuals may use fake vaccine cards to misrepresent themselves as vaccinated, we strongly encourage businesses, schools, places of worship, and government agencies to follow CDC guidance and continue to maintain social distancing and use personal protective equipment. If you did receive the vaccine, we recommend you do not post photos of your vaccine card to social media websites—your personal information could be stolen to commit fraud. For more information about the dangers of sharing your vaccination status on social media, see
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/elpaso/news/press-releases/fbi-el-paso-warns-about-not-posting-your-cdc-covid-19-vaccination-card-on-social-media-platforms
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2021/02/social-media-no-place-covid-19-vaccination-cards
To report suspicious activity involving fake vaccination record cards, please contact the appropriate government agency in your state or jurisdiction, HHS-OIG (1-800-HHS-TIPS or www.oig.hhs.gov); or the Internet Crime Complaint Center (www.ic3.gov).
39   Onvacation   2021 May 6, 7:03pm  

Such a slippery slope.

First we must wear masks to buy food.

Then to be employed you must produce a vaccination card. Since the card must be updated with the latest vaccine patch jab every six months, and so many people cheat because they are afraid of the lottery of death and side effects, they have to upgrade to a secure smart phone technology that will broadcast your vaccine status.

The technology works so well for viruses that the government extends the control to mean speech.

Hackers hack the un-hackable smartphone system and broadcast false positive jab status.

Microchips.

For our safety.
40   Shaman   2021 May 6, 7:07pm  

personal

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