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34   richwicks   2021 May 16, 12:03am  

Patrick says
richwicks says
Palestinians are fucked, they ought to just accept it.



I think they fucked themselves to a large degree with their deliberate murders of random unarmed civilians, over and over and over.


Israel is no different. You're tricking yourself to argue about this based on moral righteousness.

I have said, multiple time, that the the goal of Israel is to take the entire West Bank over, and to eventually retake Gaza and there is ZERO attempt to have a two state solution. You'll see I'm correct in time. Israel will never stop expanding until they collapse. The Palestinians have no way to negotiate with Israel. Israel is a stronger militarily and has the backing of the United States, there is no attempt by Israel to come to a peaceful solution, they will take over the entire area, and are likely to expand into the Golan after that, and who knows where after that.
35   AmericanKulak   2021 May 16, 12:16am  

It's worse than that. The "Journalists" know Damn Well what they building they're "sharing" is being used for.

This is from 2014, Al-Arabiya network reporter jokes about a missile LAUNCH from the Gaza Office building she works in.

Human Shield crap.

36   AmericanKulak   2021 May 16, 12:17am  

Semites, never change your love of bargaining.

Owner of Office Building blasted the other day tries to get 10 more minutes to grab equipment from the building with the IDF.

37   AmericanKulak   2021 May 16, 12:24am  

Here is the English Translation. It's 2009, not 2014.

Al-Arabiya KNEW they were launching rockets from the building they were broadcasting from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPDZYmcyzqA

Later that day, they were all "Bi la kaffeh, woe to us suffering Muslims, the Monkeys and Pigs attacked our innocent broadcasting office where we dindu nuttin'"
38   Patrick   2021 May 16, 12:24am  

That's hilarious actually.
39   Blue   2021 May 16, 1:29am  

The Palestinians can move to any Arab country(s) the Israel can pay for their well settlements. The UN is the one who created a narrative that they're permanent victims and refugees. The f. UN is a terrorist organization that should be shutdown.
40   richwicks   2021 May 16, 1:48am  

MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou says
Yes. Big difference in taking Western Europeans across the Ocean and having them center a "White" identity around Anglo-Saxon Culture, and trying to force minorities in their indigenous location to be part of a larger country that has traditionally warred with them.


Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think the unifying force of the United States has always been a distrust of authority and a hatred of corruption, which is why I'm so appalled by the amount of propaganda that exists in the United States today, and how much utter and blatant corruption exists in our government.
41   richwicks   2021 May 16, 3:10am  

Blue says
The Palestinians can move to any Arab country(s) the Israel can pay for their well settlements.


No they can't. Palestinians do not get citizenship in any neighboring Arab nation. Not Egypt, not Jordan, not Lebanon, not Syria.
42   WookieMan   2021 May 16, 6:49am  

Always been too lazy to look into the Isreal/Palestine conflict. Frankly... because who gives a shit? I have a somewhat basic understanding. But we're likely selling weapons to both sides or at least know that weapons we sell with end up there. We're talking about a postage stamp of land because of fictional characters (religion) on both sides. Who cares. They're always going to be killing each other for the foreseeable future.

When the fight is basically originated from fictional characters, neither side will ever win. Islam is toxic, but I'm of the opinion all religion is, even it can be argued one is less evil than the other. I'm all for staying out of others affairs (Libertarian) but at some point we need to just call a spade a spade. Religion is toxic. The conflict is basically about real estate, but it gets spun into religion and oppression. Nothing will ever truly get solved when you're not based in reality.
43   Tenpoundbass   2021 May 16, 10:16am  

WookieMan says
Always been too lazy to look into the Isreal/Palestine conflict. Frankly... because who gives a shit?


What is happening now, is what I have always thought would happen. They would both cash a check their ass can't cash.
The conflict is escalating, and there aren't any nations willing to jump in and make a proxy war out of it.
I think it's way past time, they work out their conflict. I say let them duke it out, until the Citizens decide, they can get along with each other. But they can do without the leadership on both sides.

I'm just glad the UN Is irrelevant, and their conflict isn't the most important topic in world news and pollical agenda.

But if I were a gambling man, my money will be on the IDF.

Earlier in this post it was reported by the Guardian, that a couple Israelis, attacked a mosque on Ramadan, so the Commies over there at that rag, believes it justifies, the Palestinian mutts then have the right to rain hundreds of rockets on down on innocent civilians. Rather than figuring out who attacked the Mosque and dealing with them.
They are pure cowards, the world could do with out. After going on 6 years now with ANTIFA and BLM murdering, and burning down Cities, every time a cop in a "Democrat" stronghold City kills an armed fleeing black suspect.

I'm fucking fed up with the SJW shit, and damn sure have no tolerance for anyone that responds to being wrongs by a skin tone, or culture, so they take it out on everyone.

May this shit end once and for all, and may the AP executive board all hang by their necks for aiding and abeding it.
44   B.A.C.A.H.   2021 May 16, 10:22am  

Patrick says
I travelled in Israel and Egypt in the 80's.


Thank you for sharing.
45   richwicks   2021 May 16, 7:02pm  

Tenpoundbass says
Earlier in this post it was reported by the Guardian, that a couple Israelis, attacked a mosque on Ramadan, so the Commies over there at that rag, believes it justifies, the Palestinian mutts then have the right to rain hundreds of rockets on down on innocent civilians.


You're over-estimating the number of rockets that the Palestinians have or use.

All the rockets do is give Israel carte blanche to fuck up Gaza which is what the Israeli government is constantly itching to do anyhow. I always ask "qui bono?"

The rockets from Gaza are just pathetic, pointless shows of resistance - maybe. There's no logical reason to make use of them if the government of Gaza really is working on the behalf of the people of Gaza, which I doubt.

Hamas used to be a sort of decent organization - they used to build schools when Fatah did nothing. Whoever is in power, is always useless, and never works on behalf of their constituents. It's true everywhere. Our government says that it's too expensive to build a wall between Mexico and the United States, but spending $700 billion on a war over nothing, with no mission or goal? Well, no problem funding that!
46   Misc   2021 May 16, 8:53pm  

Biden gave the terrorist group Hamas $235 million dollars.

What did he think was going to happen.

Hamas looked for any reason to act as terrorists.

Trump cut the funding to Hamas, and without coin they were forced to be peaceful.

Thanks, Joe ! ! !
47   AmericanKulak   2021 May 16, 8:57pm  

richwicks says
You're over-estimating the number of rockets that the Palestinians have or use.


The Israeli military says 1,600 rockets have been fired by Hamas, the biggest test for the Iron Dome, which works by firing its own projectiles to destroy the incoming rockets before they land.

The system can track only so many rockets at once. Despite the intensity of the latest barrage, the system appears to have held up.

The Associated Press reported that 400 rockets fell short and landed in Gaza, leaving Israel 1,200 to intercept.
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-iron-dome-blocks-90-percent-rockets-hamas-gaza-2021-5?op=1

Of course, it's not a "Human Rights Violation" to have 400 fall back into Gaza.

Seriously, what country, besides maybe Sweden or Biden's America, would allow 1200 projectiles to be fired into it?
48   Blue   2021 May 16, 9:08pm  

richwicks says
Blue says
The Palestinians can move to any Arab country(s) the Israel can pay for their well settlements.


No they can't. Palestinians do not get citizenship in any neighboring Arab nation. Not Egypt, not Jordan, not Lebanon, not Syria.

Partially US, EU and all Arab world are the real reasons behind the existence of Palestine to counter Israel. No Arab country likes them to give citizenship.
49   Patrick   2021 May 16, 9:13pm  

I always like to say that the Palestinians should simply convert to Judaism.

Voila, they can then become citizens of Israel, lol.
50   richwicks   2021 May 17, 3:14am  

Patrick says
I always like to say that the Palestinians should simply convert to Judaism.

Voila, they can then become citizens of Israel, lol.


Israel doesn't recognize converts to Judaism. You have to be born into it. You're only considered Jewish if your maternal grandmother was Jewish.

They are a race for all intensive purposes inheriting it through the maternal bloodline.

There is no solution for the Palestinians. They cannot migrate away and become citizens of the neighboring countries, and they cannot integrate into the Israeli population, even if they are willing. They're fucked.
51   mostly reader   2021 May 17, 7:19am  

richwicks says
You're only considered Jewish if your paternal grandmother was Jewish.
It's maternal grandmother. Maternal.

You are factually, verifiably incorrect here. Twice in a single sentence. Israel does accept converts in addition to recognizing descendants from maternal bloodline. This was tested in 1980 in a case which made it to Israeli Supreme Court.

As to how willing they are, you should know that Israeli Arabs, proper Israeli citizens, celebrated rockets that landed in their own streets. They cheered and gave away candy, as it is customary to do during holidays. I'll repeat: In. Their. Own. Streets. Gave away candy, like they traditionally do during holidays. If you didn't hear about this then you should expand on your sources. If you did but didn't mention it here and didn't incorporate in your worldview then there's another problem (I won't go into it for now).
52   richwicks   2021 May 17, 10:41am  

mostly reader says
It's maternal grandmother. Maternal.


You're correct and I did make that mistake. I corrected it. That was a typo by the way, but it's embarrassing.

mostly reader says
You are factually, verifiably incorrect here. Twice in a single sentence. Israel does accept converts in addition to recognizing descendants from maternal bloodline. This was tested in 1980 in a case which made it to Israeli Supreme Court.


Oh? Who were the people. Name them by name.

I hear claims like this ALL THE TIME. Prove what you said is correct. What was the case, and who were the plaintiffs?
53   mostly reader   2021 May 17, 12:35pm  

richwicks says
I hear claims like this ALL THE TIME. Prove what you said is correct. What was the case, and who were the plaintiffs?
Miller vs. Minister of Interior. Source: http://www.etd.ceu.hu/2012/pransky_tiffany.pdf I was slightly off with my dates, it was 1986 (not 1980)

It wasn't even what I thought it was, a case of conversion to Orthodox Judaism. The entire case had to be filed because she was a Reform convert, not an Orthodox. I learned something new. Were she an Orthodox convert, the issue wouldn't even be there.

Other cases at that link give good idea about how the law treats all these situations - conversion, marriage, descendants, territories, what not.

Couple of cases here: https://cadmus.eui.eu/bitstream/handle/1814/56024/RSCAS_GLOBALCIT_CR_2018_02.pdf Not all of them with happy ending because the law is quite consistent. Someone who converted to Judaism is a Jew even if they weren't by birth, but someone who converted away from Judaism is no longer a Jew even if they were by birth.

Of the more recent new, this one tuckles a niche situation: converts within Israel, in which petitioners - Reform and Masorti movements - were the ones performing the conversion. Many links because it happened in the era of internet, here is one: https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/israel-to-recognize-reform-conservative-conversion-for-law-of-return-660592 , there are many more. The court said that those converts are Jews.

Here's my question to you. While court cases with names and dates aren't readily available, their summaries are. 2-min search gives you tons of links on converts and how Israeli law treats them. Those summaries are mostly fully consistent with the more precise sources which I've offered above. You pressed me for hard data (names and cases), which costed me some time that I could've spent better. Why?

I can imagine two explanations for that.
1. You have a reason to doubt the summaries. Such as you personally know someone who converted and wanted to move to Israel, but Israel said "no". Or something else of similar nature.
2. Your strategy is to make a BS claim and to wear down the opponent by demanding that every little detail in rebuttal is verified or else it doesn't count.

This is a question of credibility. Your credibility.

What do you say?
54   Ceffer   2021 May 17, 12:38pm  

Hamas: "Gee, let's do something really smart and lob a bunch of missiles at Israel." "Gollee, that's SO SMART, i wish I'd thought of it."

Paving the road for the Neocon war with Iran? Is Hamas on the neocon payroll?
55   Patrick   2021 May 17, 1:33pm  

Ceffer says
Hamas: "Gee, let's do something really smart and lob a bunch of missiles at Israel." "Gollee, that's SO SMART, i wish I'd thought of it."


I think it's necessary for Hamas fundraising. If they never attack Israel, they lose legitimacy with their supporters.

It's similar to how I felt about ISIS sawing people's head off on video and distributing that. I thought "Boy, that is really stupid if you want public support." But then someone pointed out to me that I am not their audience. Violently insane Muslims are their audience, and they watch that stuff like porn, and donate more when they get more of it.
56   Ceffer   2021 May 17, 1:37pm  

Frenemy terrorism? "Hey, without you, our sanctimonious posturing would be useless. The WorldFucks keep pumping billions into us as long as we keep going at it."
57   Patrick   2021 May 17, 1:37pm  

Patrick says
I always like to say that the Palestinians should simply convert to Judaism.

Voila, they can then become citizens of Israel, lol.


One problem with my tongue-in-cheek solution there: other Muslim Palestinians would instantly murder any Muslim who converts to Judaism. Islam demands the murder of all those who renounce Islam.

I believe Islam is the only religion which still murders those who try to leave the religion. Christianity was like that in the middle ages, but eventually came around to the fact that Jesus never did or advocated such a thing, unlike Mohammed, who murdered lots of people. Example: https://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/asma.html
58   Ceffer   2021 May 17, 1:42pm  

It appears that ALL religions murder lots of people when given the opportunity. Gotta kill anybody who doesn't support your tribal mishmash of hierarchal God Vision.

Israeli government the protector of the homeland? They have been a thousand percent on board with Globalist Covid tyranny and vaccine terror agains their own people. It seems that a few Israelis have been going to the world courts for recourse.
60   Patrick   2021 May 17, 2:08pm  

Patrick says
One problem with my tongue-in-cheek solution there: other Muslim Palestinians would instantly murder any Muslim who converts to Judaism. Islam demands the murder of all those who renounce Islam.


Actually, it looks like Israel wouldn't accept them anyway:

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Palestinian-requests-to-convert-to-Judaism-rejected-automatically-449987

Israel’s authority handling conversions to Judaism rejects Palestinian applicants without review because of their ethnic origin, its head said. ..

“The threshold requirements” to be considered by the special cases panel, he said, “are that applicants be sincere and that they are not foreign workers; infiltrators; Palestinian or illegally in the country.” In 2014, he added, the special cases committee received 400 applications. “Half of the applicants were accepted, the rest were rejected as foreign workers, infiltrators, illegal stayers and Palestinians,” he said.


That does seem to be a violation of human rights on the basis of ethnicity.
61   FarmersWon   2021 May 17, 5:10pm  

Ceffer says
It appears that ALL religions murder lots of people when given the opportunity. Gotta kill anybody who doesn't support your tribal mishmash of hierarchal God Vision.

Israeli government the protector of the homeland? They have been a thousand percent on board with Globalist Covid tyranny and vaccine terror agains their own people. It seems that a few Israelis have been going to the world courts for recourse.


This is propaganda against religious people
Kings, dictators and communists have killed more people than religious people throughout history.
62   B.A.C.A.H.   2021 May 17, 8:11pm  

Ceffer says
It appears that ALL religions murder lots of people when given the opportunity.

Yeah.

But that conflict is not a religious conflict. Talk with the folks on the ground, they will tell you that. If that's not practical, talk to IDF Vets who are all over Silicon Valley. They will tell you that too.
63   Patrick   2021 May 17, 10:46pm  

The Irish conflict was never a religious conflict either.

It was natives vs invaders, nothing more. They happened to have somewhat different religions, but not all that different.
64   mostly reader   2021 May 18, 10:00am  

Patrick says
Actually, it looks like Israel wouldn't accept them anyway
To be clear, they won't be allowed to convert, which is a prerequisite to getting accepted. Conversion to Judaism is no joke. The process is hard, and the authority which performs the conversion needs to be convinced that it's done for "right reasons" (i.e. spiritual).
It's sorta the opposite of a super easy path to Islam, or to moderately easy way to get baptized (unless it's George Constanza trying to become a Lithuanian Orthodox). In popular media, this was reflected in that cute episode of "Sex and the City" in which Charlotte converted.
65   richwicks   2021 May 18, 3:48pm  

mostly reader says
What do you say?


I have to do more research from my experience of dealing with Hasbera before.

Israel really doesn't have a "supreme court" - their decision isn't permanent and previous decisions aren't accepted as precedent and the next group of 15 can over-ride whatever was created before. It's squirrely because there's no Israeli constitution.

Hasbera's purpose is to spread propaganda. They are professional disinformationists. Not highly paid, but they have an extensive script and it's well referenced to support whatever argument is made to counter a genuine argument.

Give me some time, if I'm incorrect, I'll readily accept it, but this requires research - boring fucking research against an army of people who typically try to deceive. "Through deception we make war" - isn't that correct?

I know conversion is made extremely difficult and arduous. I doubt most people would put up with it. Israel doesn't want converts, and Jews don't want people to convert. It's mostly a genetically inherited trait through maternal line.
66   AmericanKulak   2021 May 18, 5:07pm  

Patrick says



The Irish conflict was never a religious conflict either.

It was natives vs invaders, nothing more. They happened to have somewhat different religions, but not all that different.


Somebody should write a fiction book where a time traveler from 2021 goes back to Belfast of 1973 and shows the IRA and UDF pictures of Drag Queens with Transsexual Bathroom Signage, Sinn Fein celebrating the legalization of Abortion, etc. and both join up in a plan to kill every socialist in the Isles.
68   mostly reader   2021 May 18, 7:44pm  

richwicks says
Hasbera's purpose is to spread propaganda.
Nice.
You do realize though that it's not Hasbera's fact-bending that I'm pointing out here? So, shall we lay off statements as to who pursues what purpose.
To save you some trouble in that quest for truth: I personally know at least one convert who moved to Israel as a Jew.
69   AmericanKulak   2021 May 18, 8:14pm  

mostly reader says

You are factually, verifiably incorrect here. Twice in a single sentence. Israel does accept converts in addition to recognizing descendants from maternal bloodline. This was tested in 1980 in a case which made it to Israeli Supreme Court.


I know a Portuguese Gal in her late 20s who is converting TO Judaism. Her family has disowned her for it, and they're not militant Catholics at all, but your typical Euro Secular Socialists. "You're going to be married to a circumcised man, and they rape women because they have no feeling in their penis" her mother told her. The mother is a long time heroin addict, FWIW.

Apparently, she reached out to some Hassidics, they paid for a plane ticket from Lisbon, put her up in a hostel in Israel, and have been paying for her Visa Renewals while she studies for Conversion.
70   mostly reader   2021 May 18, 9:24pm  

Patrick says
Jews are pretty rich, so it's pretty hard.
There may be something to this. If I were to argue against this point, I'd point out that:
1) Conversion brings no benefits, apart from being able to move to Israel. Unless you are Doug "The Head" and need to blend in (spoiler: you'd be looked down at on both sides of the isle).
2) It was always hard to convert to Judaism, even before the modern Israel. The culture was always the opposite of "messianism", including the times when no one in the right mind would do it because it would bring nothing but trouble.
3) However, there is strong emphasis on reuniting with those who are already Jews but are detached from the culture/tradition.

If you look at 2 and 3 together, it hints at philosophy which is deeper than just "we want to expand" or "we want to be isolated". There's more to it.

However, I wouldn't argue against your point because there is no "because" in your point, and cause and effect may be not what they seem. Relative prosperity may be the consequence of such philosophy, not the reason.

Indeed, some of that may also apply to Parsis.
71   Patrick   2021 May 18, 11:16pm  

mostly reader says
Relative prosperity may be the consequence of such philosophy, not the reason.


There is a good argument to be made there as well. Groups that know they can trust each other have a big advantage in business. Outsiders don't fit into that.

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