Who Will Pay The 136 Families For The Loss Of Their Condos In Sunrise, Florida?
invite response
2021 Jul 4, 6:17am 1,108 views 18 comments
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1
Tenpoundbass
2021 Jul 4, 7:07am
Tenpoundbass
2021 Jul 4, 7:07am
Better yet, what's it like to inherit a stake in a lawsuit?
The Owners are dead. I wonder about the ones that had no family, who will benefit from the judgment for them?
The Owners are dead. I wonder about the ones that had no family, who will benefit from the judgment for them?
3
WookieMan
2021 Jul 4, 7:22am
WookieMan
2021 Jul 4, 7:22am
The insurance is based on all this. It's generally a per person liability and per unit. I worked in real estate for 15 years and probably 400-500 condo transitions. I've seen all the certificates of insurance for HOA's. Many condo owners take out additional insurance ass well. Besides being dead, everyone or their estate will be made whole again.
You gotta remember that every day any big insurance company probably deals with 100 house fires. This one just happened all at once. They'll take a quarterly hit and raise rates for everyone else. They have the money to pay everyone off. They'll then drop coverage on any remaining units and move on from the building.
Depending on the investigation of the collapse, it may cause a huge issue in the area. Insurance agencies could dump the entire state. It's already a big risk for them due to hurricanes. It will be interesting for high rise condo owners moving forward. Wouldn't be shocked to see HOA fees double because of this. And you now know every HOA and management company are looking over the structural integrity of their buildings now. Expect a special assessment if you're in an older building.
You gotta remember that every day any big insurance company probably deals with 100 house fires. This one just happened all at once. They'll take a quarterly hit and raise rates for everyone else. They have the money to pay everyone off. They'll then drop coverage on any remaining units and move on from the building.
Depending on the investigation of the collapse, it may cause a huge issue in the area. Insurance agencies could dump the entire state. It's already a big risk for them due to hurricanes. It will be interesting for high rise condo owners moving forward. Wouldn't be shocked to see HOA fees double because of this. And you now know every HOA and management company are looking over the structural integrity of their buildings now. Expect a special assessment if you're in an older building.
4
Tenpoundbass
2021 Jul 4, 7:51am
Tenpoundbass
2021 Jul 4, 7:51am
WookieMan says
Especially the way all of these cities are hemming and hawing, around Florida. Lots of buildings being condemned now because of this.
It's going to be a terrible time to be the owner of a 40+ year old Condo going forward. The real shame is, these condos were all just updated and modernized and flipped a gazillion times, until they are selling for a Million each. Here's the kick in the pants, when those buildings were all built, it was understood that 50 years was the golden years for those buildings. So they were made to be cheap and sell, with the buyer's attitude, "In 50 years I'll be dead!".
So they took these $79K Condos(Even in the late 80's and 90's when I moved to south Florida they were still going for cheap. Because of the almost disposable status Condo buildings like these always had.
The Housing bubble of the 2000's, threw all of that out the window, then they started flipping these condos for millions. Even in buildings 60 years old.
I remember thinking what a waste, then they demolished Diplomat Towers on Hallandale beach. I did lots of carpet and tile in that building. I thought it could have stood another 50 years. It was demolished in about 2003, and a new fancy building was put up. I think that's what they need to do to all of those old buildings.
it may cause a huge issue in the area. Insurance agencies could dump the entire state.
Especially the way all of these cities are hemming and hawing, around Florida. Lots of buildings being condemned now because of this.
It's going to be a terrible time to be the owner of a 40+ year old Condo going forward. The real shame is, these condos were all just updated and modernized and flipped a gazillion times, until they are selling for a Million each. Here's the kick in the pants, when those buildings were all built, it was understood that 50 years was the golden years for those buildings. So they were made to be cheap and sell, with the buyer's attitude, "In 50 years I'll be dead!".
So they took these $79K Condos(Even in the late 80's and 90's when I moved to south Florida they were still going for cheap. Because of the almost disposable status Condo buildings like these always had.
The Housing bubble of the 2000's, threw all of that out the window, then they started flipping these condos for millions. Even in buildings 60 years old.
I remember thinking what a waste, then they demolished Diplomat Towers on Hallandale beach. I did lots of carpet and tile in that building. I thought it could have stood another 50 years. It was demolished in about 2003, and a new fancy building was put up. I think that's what they need to do to all of those old buildings.
5
MAGA
2021 Jul 4, 9:01am
MAGA
2021 Jul 4, 9:01am
My former loft in the downtown Minneapolis area. About 100-years-old I am guessing.
6
WookieMan
2021 Jul 4, 9:15am
WookieMan
2021 Jul 4, 9:15am
MAGA says
That building will last 800 years no problem if they don't tear it down. Even the best of built steel frame buildings, we have no clue their longevity. The FL building was concrete obviously and pure negligence. But we have no clue with water tables and pounding steel into bedrock what the long term outcome is. It would suck to be an owner in a high rise right now. Just like after a hail storm hits, all the roofers start doing door to door sales. HOA's are going to get sold on maintenance programs and all sorts of other shit. Basically your assessments are going up. I guess it's better than having your home crush you to death.
My former loft in the downtown Minneapolis area. About 100-years-old I am guessing.
That building will last 800 years no problem if they don't tear it down. Even the best of built steel frame buildings, we have no clue their longevity. The FL building was concrete obviously and pure negligence. But we have no clue with water tables and pounding steel into bedrock what the long term outcome is. It would suck to be an owner in a high rise right now. Just like after a hail storm hits, all the roofers start doing door to door sales. HOA's are going to get sold on maintenance programs and all sorts of other shit. Basically your assessments are going up. I guess it's better than having your home crush you to death.
7
BayArea
2021 Jul 4, 9:19am
BayArea
2021 Jul 4, 9:19am
Sounds like Elena is asking some obvious questions that my 5yr old also asked.
8
B.A.C.A.H.
2021 Jul 4, 9:28am
B.A.C.A.H.
2021 Jul 4, 9:28am
HOA's here in the Cool And Hip Bay Area mostly don't have Earthquake Insurance.
Just like most SFH owners don't have it.
The premiums are just too damn high.
Party On, Hipsters.
Just like most SFH owners don't have it.
The premiums are just too damn high.
Party On, Hipsters.
9
WookieMan
2021 Jul 4, 9:29am
WookieMan
2021 Jul 4, 9:29am
ohomen171 says
BayArea says
Lol. That line slipped through my sarcasm meter. You win the day on Patnet. Too many drinks for me last night.
Elena is famous for asking brilliant questions about things no one else considered.
BayArea says
Sounds like Elena is asking some obvious questions that my 5yr old also asked.
Lol. That line slipped through my sarcasm meter. You win the day on Patnet. Too many drinks for me last night.
10
Robert Sproul
2021 Jul 4, 9:29am
From an article regarding new studies about the lifespan of the infrastructure that we frenetically built out last century:
"Concrete construction no longer lasts thousands of years, like the Pantheon in Rome. Instead, its lifespan is roughly 50-100 years, thanks to the way in which modern concrete is reinforced.
That means a multi-trillion-dollar bill is coming due right around now, in the form of concrete construction that needs noisy, dirty, expensive repair.
The amount of money needed to fix existing infrastructure (nearly all of which is concrete, in one way or another) stands at roughly $6 trillion, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers.
If you live in a concrete building that's more than 40 or 50 years old, it's an extremely good idea to check carefully on just how well it's been maintained, lest you find yourself with an unexpected seven-figure repair bill — or worse."
Obviously big bucks are going to have to be spent, and soon, on replacing infrastructure in America. How about all the dams built in the dam building boom mid-century?
But I think the President* Biden's infrastructure priority will likely come down to a lot more Transgender bathrooms.
"Concrete construction no longer lasts thousands of years, like the Pantheon in Rome. Instead, its lifespan is roughly 50-100 years, thanks to the way in which modern concrete is reinforced.
That means a multi-trillion-dollar bill is coming due right around now, in the form of concrete construction that needs noisy, dirty, expensive repair.
The amount of money needed to fix existing infrastructure (nearly all of which is concrete, in one way or another) stands at roughly $6 trillion, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers.
If you live in a concrete building that's more than 40 or 50 years old, it's an extremely good idea to check carefully on just how well it's been maintained, lest you find yourself with an unexpected seven-figure repair bill — or worse."
Obviously big bucks are going to have to be spent, and soon, on replacing infrastructure in America. How about all the dams built in the dam building boom mid-century?
But I think the President* Biden's infrastructure priority will likely come down to a lot more Transgender bathrooms.
11
AmericanKulak
2021 Jul 4, 2:25pm
AmericanKulak
2021 Jul 4, 2:25pm
They knew about the problem. The Board made a plan.
Then the cheap shits saw the assessment and got all Nooooooooo about it.
They had a lady who resigned from the Board who said both the City and the Board knew, but sat on their ass.
Then the cheap shits saw the assessment and got all Nooooooooo about it.
They had a lady who resigned from the Board who said both the City and the Board knew, but sat on their ass.
13
Booger
2021 Jul 5, 7:43pm
Booger
2021 Jul 5, 7:43pm
I know someone who is on the board of a HOA. He says it's mostly Jews that don't want to pay for long term costs, like roof, and their reasoning being that if they aren't living in the condo at the time that the roof is being replaced, then it's someone else's problem. He tries to explain to people that you can really only rent a roof, and even if it is not replaced when you live there you still have to pay your portion of the roof cost.
14
just_passing_through
2021 Jul 5, 8:35pm
just_passing_through
2021 Jul 5, 8:35pm
mmmm...
HOAs are generally bad primarily in a single situation: You live some place with an HOA.
For my rental houses in Texas they help me keep my investment golden.
For my short term rental in Maui they take care of shit so I can spend 4 times a month booking revenue.
No fucking way in hell I'd ever live in an HOA - unless I'm old then shit may change.
I'd rather live in a trailer on some land.
HOAs are generally bad primarily in a single situation: You live some place with an HOA.
For my rental houses in Texas they help me keep my investment golden.
For my short term rental in Maui they take care of shit so I can spend 4 times a month booking revenue.
No fucking way in hell I'd ever live in an HOA - unless I'm old then shit may change.
I'd rather live in a trailer on some land.
15
NuttBoxer
2021 Jul 6, 11:07am
NuttBoxer
2021 Jul 6, 11:07am
Great example of why you should never "buy" property that doesn't come with any land.
16
AmericanKulak
2021 Jul 6, 11:08am
AmericanKulak
2021 Jul 6, 11:08am
HunterTits says
Many well-off/wealthy people have this mentality, esp. if they made a living in Finance or Bureaucracy. They hate paying for maintenance. Some of the worst buildings you'll see are upscale condos with tiles popping up when you step on them, clocks broken for years, common area carpet all worn down, etc.
Trust me, I own a studio in a modest building that is 80% Minnesota and Wisconsin. Half of them don't even want to share the few thousand bucks to pay for a simple gate lock to stop the beachgoers from washing the sand off their legs in the pool in the summer, when all the Orlando people come to the beach but the complex is 3/4 empty so there's nobody to stop them coming right off the street.
But they have plenty of time and energy to snoop on what everybody else is doing. Had a guy tell me he sold and moved because he couldn't stand all the Damn buttinskies. He's happier on Merritt Island with the New Yorkers who don't track his movements.
"Oh boy howdy, Harald came in a 10PM last night. The other night he didn't leave his house. What is he doing in there?"
Like members of Congress, HOA board members figure they won't be around when the bill comes due. Typical government thinking.
Many well-off/wealthy people have this mentality, esp. if they made a living in Finance or Bureaucracy. They hate paying for maintenance. Some of the worst buildings you'll see are upscale condos with tiles popping up when you step on them, clocks broken for years, common area carpet all worn down, etc.
Trust me, I own a studio in a modest building that is 80% Minnesota and Wisconsin. Half of them don't even want to share the few thousand bucks to pay for a simple gate lock to stop the beachgoers from washing the sand off their legs in the pool in the summer, when all the Orlando people come to the beach but the complex is 3/4 empty so there's nobody to stop them coming right off the street.
But they have plenty of time and energy to snoop on what everybody else is doing. Had a guy tell me he sold and moved because he couldn't stand all the Damn buttinskies. He's happier on Merritt Island with the New Yorkers who don't track his movements.
"Oh boy howdy, Harald came in a 10PM last night. The other night he didn't leave his house. What is he doing in there?"
17
WookieMan
2022 May 21, 9:27am
WookieMan
2022 May 21, 9:27am
Ultra_FJB says
2nd property, investment, and old age are the only reasons to buy property that has an HOA. Or laziness. We're about to have a tiny HOA ($200/year) but it's minor shit. We might actually buy a 3rd lot with a neighbor and just build a park on our own for the kids. We're friends with both neighbors and I have no interest in an unknown moving in next door. Plus we'll have what feels like 500' of frontage in a subdivision.
I know we'll be upside-down out the gate, but my erection grows bigger every time I think about what we're going to do. It's not extravagant, but it's a house that will have everything I want. Well the pool might be over the top and the extra garage, but the house itself won't be all that big. You wouldn't call it a McMansion for sure. Not anytime soon, but the build thread is coming in the next year.
No fucking way in hell I'd ever live in an HOA - unless I'm old then shit may change.
2nd property, investment, and old age are the only reasons to buy property that has an HOA. Or laziness. We're about to have a tiny HOA ($200/year) but it's minor shit. We might actually buy a 3rd lot with a neighbor and just build a park on our own for the kids. We're friends with both neighbors and I have no interest in an unknown moving in next door. Plus we'll have what feels like 500' of frontage in a subdivision.
I know we'll be upside-down out the gate, but my erection grows bigger every time I think about what we're going to do. It's not extravagant, but it's a house that will have everything I want. Well the pool might be over the top and the extra garage, but the house itself won't be all that big. You wouldn't call it a McMansion for sure. Not anytime soon, but the build thread is coming in the next year.
18
clambo
2022 May 21, 1:03pm
It’s correct that HOA fees include insurance.
Condo owners also buy insurance for their unit in many cases; strangely some things are considered the owner’s responsibility.
I don’t know but I thought insurance for property didn’t always cover the cost of replacement, or the present value of the property.
Condo owners also buy insurance for their unit in many cases; strangely some things are considered the owner’s responsibility.
I don’t know but I thought insurance for property didn’t always cover the cost of replacement, or the present value of the property.
I could not come up with an immediate answer. I asked my excellent State Farm Agent Joline Banks.
She said that the homeowner's association had to pay them for the loss of their units.
I have had two awful experiences with homeowner's associations from 2001-2004 and from 2010-2017. There is one interesting feature that they offer. A property owner does not have to buy homeowner's insurance. The HOA provides this. I am going to assume that the Champlain Towers South Condo Association provided such homeowner's insurance. Those who survived the collapse of the tower and the heirs of those who did not survive should be able to get a payment (eventually) from the homeowner's insurance policy.
The problem area is how the families of those killed will get compensation for the loss of their loved ones. The HOA has a $5 million liability policy. That will be exhausted quickly. Some of the apartments in that building were worth over $1 million US. Those who died were often affluent professionals. Payments for their loss could be quite high. Many families will come up short of what their court judgments are.