patrick.net

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

Only reason I saw this article is because it came from IRS leak and wealthy congress people are up in arms trying to protect their wealthy puppet masters. They rarely care when poor peoples data gets lost, but wealthy people.... instant action!
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/issa-irs-leak-wealthy-taxpayer-tax-data

Lesson from the article... have assets (stocks, companies, etc...), assets go up in value.

Hey - do you have a link to the leak? I'll preserve it.

6 TB takes a long time to fill, and I like collecting stuff like this.

richwicks says

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

Only reason I saw this article is because it came from IRS leak and wealthy congress people are up in arms trying to protect their wealthy puppet masters. They rarely care when poor peoples data gets lost, but wealthy people.... instant action!
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/issa-irs-leak-wealthy-taxpayer-tax-data

Lesson from the article... have assets (stocks, companies, etc...), assets go up in value.

Hey - do you have a link to the lea...

no, only what i saw on fox -> propublica links.

What they're saying here, and correctly so, is that the gains on stock are not taxable at all until the stock is sold.

And even in that case, due to long-term capital gains being taxed so much more favorably than actual work, the rich pay a much smaller percentage on stock gains than working people with a big income from work pay on that income.

Clearly the long-term capital gains tax should be at least the same as the tax on income from actual work.

But as for appreciation on stock you didn't sell, should it be taxed at all? You didn't actually get any money, you just got the possibility of getting money based on the current trading price of that stock. The stock could just as easily go down the next year. Should you get a tax rebate in that case?

Patrick says

What they're saying here, and correctly so, is that the gains on stock are not taxable at all until the stock is sold.

And even in that case, due to long-term capital gains being taxed so much more favorably than actual work, the rich pay a much smaller percentage on stock gains than working people with a big income from work pay on that income.

Clearly the long-term capital gains tax should be at least the same as the tax on income from actual work.

But as for appreciation on stock you didn't sell, should it be taxed at all? You didn't actually get any money, you just got the possibility of getting money based on the current trading price of that stock. The stock could just as easily go down the next year. Should you get a tax rebate in that case?

Being a middle of road on most cases. I would like to see.
1) Middle class people incentivized to open business instead of dead end jobs.
2) Also investing in stocks and taking taxes should be rewarded.

There is no small business that makes 1M+ profit. The "stock option" burglary by elites over $1M should be taxed at 60% minimum.
Also thsi money should not go to govt spending, another elite money capture pit. It should go back to middle class.

i.e Anytime above 20%(current rate) windfall happens, the rest of money should be used to reduce tax burden of middle class or pay the deficit.

farmer2021 says

There is no small business that makes 1M+ profit.

This recent dem plan to "tax the rich fucks who make over 1M" tricks regular people into thinking it wont affect them, but it does - its not uncommon to sell an asset that has over 1M in appreciation, such as a house, business, or mutual fund. Bam, you quickly become the evil rich fuck with over 1M income, for that 1 year.

With most stocks you can usually avoid this pretty easily, but not with a house or small business. At least, until they come up with ways to make it easy to sell a fractional stake in your home, allowing you to spread the cap gains over multiple years.

HunterTits says

Ireland or Lichtenstein for example.

That's interesting. Maybe this is one way that Ireland can show the 2nd highest GDP in the world:

https://patrick.net/post/1340301/2021-07-27-how-did-ireland-get-to-be-the-second-ri

Could just be people claiming income there to get the low tax rate.

Imagine if your income tax was treated like corporate taxes and your life a business.

You could write off your home, clothes, food, just about everything except your disposable income ("Profit")

Hircus says

farmer2021 says

There is no small business that makes 1M+ profit.

This recent dem plan to "tax the rich fucks who make over 1M" tricks regular people into thinking it wont affect them, but it does - its not uncommon to sell an asset that has over 1M in appreciation, such as a house, business, or mutual fund. Bam, you quickly become the evil rich fuck with over 1M income, for that 1 year.

With most stocks you can usually avoid this pretty easily, but not with a house or small business. At least, until they come up with ways to make it easy to sell a fractional stake in your home, allowing you to spread the cap gains over multiple years.

Easy fix. As long as you switch your primary residence, No tax if buy in 2 years+ 500k is already there.
For business too, They can provide exemption.. Or You can pay yourself higher salary every year if you want.

It makes no sense to tax "labor" more than capital beyond small reasonable size risk takings and business.
Rich are getting rich by not work hard but by using crony capital provided by elite revolving door between government and private sector.

farmer2021 says

Middle class people incentivized to open business instead of dead end jobs

Instead they seem to do everything possible to make small business fail.

It's true that you aren't taxed on unrealized capital gains.
Also, the capital gains tax is 15% for a lot of people.
There also is no tax on gains in retirement accounts until spent, except Roth IRA withdrawals which aren't taxed.
Municipal bond interest is not taxed.
Qualified dividends have low tax.
Statements above refer to Federal taxes, not state.
Houses or condos are taxed all the time you own them, so you pay taxes on unrealized gains.
Selling a house means you pay an extra tax from Obamacare , 3.8%.

farmer2021 says

There is no small business that makes 1M+ profit.

The one my wife works for does. About 7 full time workers and 30 seasonal workers. Gross about $10M with 60% margins on their jobs and the rest of salary, overhead, insurance, etc. is about 20%. They net about $2-3M a year. My wife is underpaid by a substantial amount, but is given massive flexibility with schedule and vacation time. She should be getting $500-600k per year. But we take off about 2-3 months a year total. She's responsible for selling about 70% of that $10M.

So there are small businesses with under 50 employees that do net $1M. The owners both have 56' boats that retail for half a million down in the Ozarks. She made them and us millionaires. If they were to sell the two owners would walk with close to $10M pre-tax. We're not at that level. Working to get some ownership stake though. We're still young so there's time. It will grow into a $50-100M company at some point. Even 5% ownership stake would be life changing. It's a proprietary product that would be illegal to replicate. The starting product actually is made out in CA.

Yes, I think even some donut shops can make >$1M profit in a year.

I finally quit my California job and I'm taking a 100% remote job, and I've told the family we're bailing on Commiefornia and going to a no-income-tax, free state like Texas or Tennessee. Nashville area is top on my list.

My employer is about to pass a vaccine mandate and this is my big fuck you to them.

@porkchopexpress glad to hear it.

I'm about to give up on California myself.

Patrick says

I'm about to give up on California myself.

Awesome. I've also heard people are bailing from Oregon and Washington state as well. You guys should seriously look at Franklin, TX, which is a surrounding city around Nashville. It's really nice and up-and-coming and I've heard that TN is about to pass anti-mask-mandate legislation.