patrick.net

Is that cockpit from Clint Eastwood Firefox?

Looks like Russia is dialing back expectations claiming Kiev and other major cities were never the goal. Looks like Russia might be pushed out of Kherson too.

"Russia had never intended to capture Kyiv, Kharkiv and other cities, the generals said - these are not setbacks in other words, it's all part of the plan. And the plan was to distract Ukrainian forces while Russia/ Donetsk/ Luhansk made territorial gains in the east."
https://twitter.com/polinaivanovva/status/1507400330140696576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507400330140696576%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhotair.com%2Fallahpundit%2F2022%2F03%2F25%2Fdid-russia-just-give-up-on-seizing-kiev-n458020&source=patrick.net

https://twitter.com/Stuckvisor/status/1507137154065088518?source=patrick.net

socal2 says

Looks like Russia is dialing back expectations claiming Kiev and other major cities were never the goal. Looks like Russia might be pushed out of Kherson too.

"Russia had never intended to capture Kyiv, Kharkiv and other cities, the generals said - these are not setbacks in other words, it's all part of the plan. And the plan was to distract Ukrainian forces while Russia/ Donetsk/ Luhansk made territorial gains in the east."
https://twitter.com/polinaivanovva/status/1507400330140696576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507400330140696576%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhotair.com%2Fallahpundit%2F2022%2F...&source=patrick.net

LOLwhat? Start a major invasion from 6 directions, lose more troops, tanks and aircraft than in 10 years of Afghan war, displace 10 million people, kill God knows how many civilians and get hit with major sanctions only to get what you already had - a useless sliver of Ukrainian territory with some non-functioning old coal mines and chemical plants? This is the smartest plan in the history of smart plans! Smarter even than that gnome underwear plan. How's the fuck is this any better than what they had on Feb 23, 2022? Same fucking Dumb_ass under control, but no sanctions and the whole world oblivious to how really fucked up their military is. PUTIN! SO! SMART!

richwicks says

socal2 says

Onvacation says

Some folks don't like being manipulated by propaganda.

Yeah - It is tough to know what to believe.

Not really. Whatever our government is promoting is the wrong thing to support. That's pretty much been the rule for 20 years.

Were they right about any of the wars?
Were they right about bailing out the criminals on wall street in 2007 and 2008 instead of prosecuting them?
Were they right about passing the ACA that only made it illegal not to carry health insurance, and imposed a $2,000 fine on those that couldn't afford it?
Were they right about LGBTQ+ advocacy?
Were they right to overthrow Ukraine?
Were they right about abortion - up to the day of birth?
Were they right about sars-cov2-19 being a pandemic?
Were they right about the vaccines?
Were ...

Agreed. Chances are dim they're even a little bit right and not totally full of shit

mostly reader says

- Chubais, one of the closest Putin comrades and Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation for Relations with International Organisations, left his office and jumped the ship. He was seen in Turkey. If you don't understand what that means you don't understand anything.

- Elvira Nabiullina, Russian head of the Central Bank, has requested to be relieved of her office. The request was denied. This is the unquestionable part. The part which is likely but for which I can't point to a public source is the following: it happened twice, and after the second time she was told that the only way she's leaving is through the penitentiary system for her and her family.

What are you trying to prove? That putin doesn't run a sound and free govt and has many enemies? Does a bear shit in the woods? The Ukranian government is a puppet govt put in place by the US that felt the need to spy on, harass, imprison and (threaten to) kill political opponents and outlaw whole parties and censor the press. Sounds familiar? Yeah thought so. The people of both countries are paying for this shit and putin is at least as popular as zelinsky (which doesnt mean much). It's a tragedy on both sides that could have been prevented time and time again with diplomacy and sound leadership.

mostly reader says

Go back and find a fact that I declared that turned out inaccurate. You may go longer than 48 hours. I doubt that you can.

Nah, I'm not aspie or bored enough to bother. This is the dullest and oldest trick out there, flip the responsibility onto me to debunk you. I saw how you tried to maintain the fiction that Masks worked on a public health level by dismissing real world empirical data and clinging to controlled laboratory experiments. In reality, we had real world experience and data on a public health, real world usage level for decades with other respiratory diseases for decades, and the outcome of COVID mask wearing followed those closely - statistically insignificant in almost every case, and even in the handful when it was barely outside the MoE, it was hardly worth the bother in terms of economic and psychological damage. The point being we knew that going into COVID. And it wasn't an excess of caution given the Smearing of Ivermectin (and HCQ), the former of which is now clearly shown to have a solid impact on COVID if dosed early.

This isn't a personal attack, but I've seen your post history and you show up when the Narrative needs to be Defended, so I'll stand in my belief that you are a Faux Skeptic, and not worth my time because you're not up for conversion

mostly reader says

While you don't take me seriously, here are couple more facts I didn't yet see reported here:

- Chubais, one of the closest Putin comrades and Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation for Relations with International Organisations, left his office and jumped the ship. He was seen in Turkey. If you don't understand what that means you don't understand anything.

- Elvira Nabiullina, Russian head of the Central Bank, has requested to be relieved of her office. The request was denied. This is the unquestionable part. The part which is likely but for which I can't point to a public source is the following: it happened twice, and after the second time she was told that the only way she's leaving is through the penitentiary system for her and her family.

Ukraine is the 4th most corrupt country in the world. Russia is the 7th.
. Ukraine was the single largest source of big donations to the Clinton Foundation, and Hunter got a great job with Burisma, that is run by an Oligarch.

What's the point of these facts? That Russia has corruption? No shit. But Ukraine isn't some fantasy Shire of incorrupt, decentralized democracy lovey dovery happy hobbits, either. It's the most corrupt country in Europe:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine

AmericanKulak says

Ukraine is the 4th most corrupt country in the world. Russia is the 7th.

By whose measure?

Eric Holder says

AmericanKulak says

Ukraine is the 4th most corrupt country in the world. Russia is the 7th.

By whose measure?

Ernst and Young in 2012.

https://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/people-first-the-latest-in-the-watch-on-ukrainian-democracy-5-312797.html?source=patrick.net

Heard this on War Room as well, first hour I believe.

AmericanKulak says

This is the dullest and oldest trick out there, flip the responsibility onto me to debunk you.

That's how arguments work: if you claim or imply something, you need to back it up. It IS your responsibility.

You dismissed my statement, I challenged you on that. With predictable result.

AmericanKulak says

I saw how you tried to maintain the fiction that Masks worked on a public health level by dismissing real world empirical data and clinging to controlled laboratory experiments.

Now you are outright lying. I remember that argument. Where did I try to maintain a fiction? Be specific. I say - your reading comprehension is not my problem.

AmericanKulak says

ou show up when the Narrative needs to be Defended

I mostly show up on 3 occasions:
- when I can be of help and I don't see that help coming from someone else
- when I must engage in a dialog to learn something
- when someone says something outrageously stupid and untrue about a cause for which I care. It has nothing to do with narrative. I just know it for a fact that those who defend this invasion are blowing the trumpet for the worst of the scum that there is.

There's one more, when someone lends advice which may cause bodily harm. This hasn't yet happened here AFAIR. One instance was somewhat close, but not close enough to pass the criteria.

AmericanKulak says

Eric Holder says

AmericanKulak says

Ukraine is the 4th most corrupt country in the world. Russia is the 7th.

By whose measure?

Ernst and Young in 2012..

LOL. That's Yanukovitch times where Ukraine was practically Russia's dominion. To the point that their fucking Minister of Defense was a Russian citizen. Let this sink in.

"Second military in the world"

mostly reader says

That's how arguments work: if you claim or imply something, you need to back it up. It IS your responsibility.

mostly reader says

That's how arguments work: if you claim or imply something, you need to back it up. It IS your responsibility.

You dismissed my statement, I challenged you on that. With predictable result.

I'm going to continue to dismiss your statement. "Ukraine Reported" on a rando twitter account is a crap source. Most of the posts in this thread are unprovenced claims by pro-Ukraine NGOs and "Media" with mysterious funding.

mostly reader says

Now you are outright lying. I remember that argument. Where did I try to maintain a fiction? Be specific. I say - your reading comprehension is not my problem.

There's a thread on it, not too long ago, maybe a couple of weeks back. We had a discussion on YOU providing evidence that masks work in the real world, and you provided nothing but controlled experiments in labs.

mostly reader says

I mostly show up on 3 occasions:
- when I can be of help and I don't see that help coming from someone else
- when I must engage in a dialog to learn something
- when someone says something outrageously stupid and untrue about a cause for which I care. It has nothing to do with narrative. I just know it for a fact that those who defend this invasion are blowing the trumpet for the worst of the scum that there is.

There's one more, when someone lends advice which may cause bodily harm. This hasn't yet happened here AFAIR. One instance was somewhat close, but not close enough to pass the criteria.

Ain't you a hero?

This was a long predicted reaction to Neocon meddling in Ukraine. "Leading Ukraine down the Primrose Path" as Mearsheimer put it years ago in the early years of the last decade, and George Kennan warned about what has basically happened decades ago in the 90s before his death.

Nobody is cheering it, just regretting it because it was predicted.

Literally every single asshole in charge of Iraq and Afghanistan and the Obama-era ISIS turd are the some every single assholes that have been pushing Ukraine to cool it's relations with Russia.

AmericanKulak says

There's a thread on it, not too long ago, maybe a couple of weeks back. We had a discussion on YOU providing evidence that masks work in the real world, and you provided nothing but controlled experiments in labs.

Because! That! Was! My! Initial! Statement! To which everyone in the right mind should agree - that masks work in controlled environment. It was never meant to be extended to anything other than that. Of course I didn't provide real world evidence, I never was in that conversation and I never defended that position. "I gracefully decline the invitation to join your hallucination".

AmericanKulak says

Ain't you a hero?

You made a comment - I answered. Is there a problem? Apparently there is. Sorry about shattering your little world.

But hey, look, there's a Nazi under your bed!

BTW, I used this last line under other circumstances and didn't expect that I'd have a chance to use it here.

mostly reader says

Because! That! Was! My! Initial! Statement! To which everyone in the right mind should agree - that masks work in controlled environment. It was never meant to be extended to anything other than that. Of course I didn't provide real world evidence, I never was in that conversation and I never defended that position. "I gracefully decline the invitation to join your hallucination".

And my statement was Public Health. What works in a lab doesn't always translate to the real world, whether engineering or biology, as IRL is a messy place.

mostly reader says

You made a comment - I answered. Is there a problem? Apparently there is. Sorry about shattering your little world.

But hey, look, there's a Nazi under your bed!

BTW, I used this last line under other circumstances and didn't expect that I'd have a chance to use it here.

You're way too full of yourself, which is why I dismiss you.

Isn't it kind of purposelessness to argue about the stupid war in Ukraine?

People get caught up in the propaganda, and it's just that, a bunch of lies. I will listen to some people ONLY to find out how reliable they are, and I don't find out how reliable they are until after the fact.

I've been doing this for years, which is why I know it's completely worthless to listen to what is called "mainstream news".

AmericanKulak says

And my statement was Public Health. What works in a lab doesn't always translate to the real world, whether engineering or biology, as IRL is a messy place.

So you decided that I argued against your point and made a fool of yourself. Got it.
AmericanKulak says

You're way too full of yourself, which is why I dismiss you.

Just so you know: it's easy to appear full of oneself next to someone who's full of something else.

mostly reader says

So you decided that I argued against your point and made a fool of yourself. Got it.

This doesn't provide any information. You're just declaring victory because you always want to be in an argument, and not a discussion.

I think you are tiresome to try to communicate with, because you're a brick wall. You've shown no capacity to think or to absorb information, or to digest what you didn't previously know. Your mind can't be altered in the least. You don't know how to have a discussion in my opinion.

richwicks says

This doesn't provide any information.

It sure does. It invites a discussion about a possible disconnect, at the very least.

I, of course, do not mean that it provides information to you.


richwicks says

You're just declaring victory because you always want to be in an argument, and not a discussion.

I'm declaring the victory because it's warranted. If you crap your pants I may pretend that it didn't happen if I like you. Or not if I don't.

richwicks says

You've shown no capacity to think or to absorb information, or to digest what you didn't previously know.

If someone is looking for an example of clownesque, look no further!! I'll give you a hint about the "why": things that I do know, how do I know them?

As to your persona. The entire worldview that you are pushing on patnet is based on little tweaks of reality that shoehorn your agenda into coherent picture. It falls apart as soon as you "untweak" them. I made an example of it in a lengthier post about blatant propaganda. Your message is a perfect use case.

BTW, just so you know. When I earlier mentioned recommendation which was somewhat close to causing bodily harm, I meant specifically you. You really should abstain from topics of which you understand little. Which is most of them.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

You're just declaring victory because you always want to be in an argument, and not a discussion.

I'm declaring the victory because it's warranted. If you crap your pants I may pretend that it didn't happen if I like you. Or not if I don't.

This is why I don't take you too seriously. Again, you can't have a discussion.

Time will tell what the fallout from the Ukraine/Russian war is - there are no good sides. This is a battle between oligarchs which are sacrificing people for their own ends, and have no real stakes in the outcome.

richwicks says

there are no good sides

Cut the crap, comrade. You've been hanging off of Putler's nuts too long to pull off this mask of impartiality.

Please Clap.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

there are no good sides

Cut the crap, comrade.

"Comrade" - the Irony.

Do you think this stupidity works with anybody over 30? Ad hominem attacks are used when there's nothing else to use.

mostly reader says

You've been hanging off of Putler's nuts too long to pull off this mask of impartiality.

You can do better than this. This is lazy of you.

I've talked to people outside of a war. The Serbian war was interesting. Both sides felt they were just caught up and they were. People get dragged into a conflict, by propaganda, always. A conflict they were lied into, because they didn't understand the other side, and the other side didn't understand them.

richwicks says

"Comrade" - the Irony.

At least you understand that there's no irony in "Cut the crap".

richwicks says

You can do better than this. This is lazy of you.

It's not lazy, it's adequate.

You've been pushing blatant pro-Russian propaganda here with such vigor that this "there are no good sides" high ground maneuver looks quite cute.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

You can do better than this. This is lazy of you.

It's not lazy, it's adequate.

You've been pushing blatant pro-Russian propaganda here

Like what?

Show some examples.

"Russian propaganda" is what our news media and government calls the truth, and they've been doing this for 5 years. So, do you mean I'm using "the truth" or do you mean ACTUAL Russian Propaganda?

I'm sorry my dishonest, lying fucking government confuses the two terms, intentionally, maliciously. It's "Russian propaganda" for example that Hunter Biden is a dirtbag sex addicted slut crack addict. That's what our propaganda says. It's just the truth though. That's precisely what he is.

My bet, is that you can't distinguish between what our dishonest, criminal, lying establishment calls "Russian propaganda" and what actually is Russian propaganda.

AmericanKulak says

Please Clap.

Jeb IS a dynastic Nazi. Dad was sired from the loins of the Gestapo/SS ratlined to construct the Swiss International Branch of the CIA Inc. by Allen Dulles. Bushes have an estate in Switzerland as well as a ranch in South America close to where the allegedly alive Adolph Hitler wound up cooling his heels. It's probably the Swiss branch of the CIA that is training the Nazis in Ukraine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1508435315123445761?source=patrick.net

https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/23/pentagon-drops-truth-bombs-to-stave-off-war-with-russia/?source=patrick.net

Leaked stories from the Pentagon have exposed how mainstream media reports Russia’s conduct in the Ukraine war, in a bid to counter propaganda intended to get NATO into the conflict

That's an interesting idea. Maybe the Pentagon is sane, and engaged in an effort to stop the woke idiots from getting us all killed.

Finally footage of advancing troops being greeted as liberators!

https://twitter.com/vitalyvoronenko/status/1509645491688157187?source=patrick.net

Fuel depot in Belgorod (NOT Ukraine):

https://t.me/zhest_belgorod/10205?source=patrick.net

At least 8 fuel storage tanks ablaze:

https://t.me/zhest_belgorod/10209?source=patrick.net

Ukie helos dindu nuffin:

https://youtu.be/bbt5pr5lCuc

https://youtu.be/xpFnJ-0_xMo

https://t.me/zhest_belgorod/10213?source=patrick.net

Still burning in the morning:

https://t.me/zhest_belgorod/10214?source=patrick.net

Never leave a man behind!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwcxZJyW0iA&source=patrick.net

socal2 says

Never leave a man behind!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwcxZJyW0iA&source=patrick.net

there are some professional videos on youtube making it look like Ukraine is winning the war and practically in Moscow.

knowing our government and their propaganda tactics, most of it is likely hollywood production fakes. i don’t care, just telling you as a neighbor to take this all with a huge stack of salt. Media is tightly controlled, so what you see is what they want you to see, and what they don’t want you to see is nowhere to be found. Concensus forming media, kind of how they convinced so many to live in covid fear… same fucking tactics.

Fortwaynemobile says

Media is tightly controlled, so what you see is what they want you to see, and what they don’t want you to see is nowhere to be found.

This is what annoys me. No matter how many times our news media is caught lying, no matter how egregious the lie, you still have to deal with people demanding you believe it, citing it as if there is any credibility to it.

At this point I don't think it's fair to write these people off as naive or gullible. They're just fucking stupid and I'm sick of them.

richwicks says

This is what annoys me. No matter how many times our news media is caught lying, no matter how egregious the lie, you still have to deal with people demanding you believe it, citing it as if there is any credibility to it.

My favorite from this event was the civilian clothed people on the downslope of a dirt berm, "Throwing" molotovs. You could not see the target. Reminded me of the "Refugees Welcome" remake at the border where the photographer had the mother with two kids in the same running stance. Meanwhile in the background you could see people trying to climb the wall. Photographer also threw smoke bombs to make it look like tear gas was being used.

Very tired liberator resting after playing garmoshka for his new Ukie friends:

WTF is that thing on the door of liberator's party ride?

AmericanKulak says

Reminded me of the "Refugees Welcome" remake at the border where the photographer had the mother with two kids in the same running stance. Meanwhile in the background you could see people trying to climb the wall. Photographer also threw smoke bombs to make it look like tear gas was being used.

I just don't find it useful at this point to pick out when the news media is lying to me, when it's so obviously willing to lie over and over and over again.

I really view anything that makes it to be corporate news to be a complete fabrication or a lie. It's pointless to view it looking for information. The truth gets out in time, but it takes a couple of months before it does.

What's going on in Ukraine now? I'll know in September.

Putin has already said that if NATO gets involved, they'll fight a war of attrition. That might be the current plan, and if it is, this war will still be going on in September - not to be won, but to exhaust foreign supplies and fighters. This is what happened in Afghanistan, what is happening in Syria, what is going on in Yemen. War sucks. It not necessarily about winning, it's about making certain the other sides doesn't win, regardless of the human cost.

RWSGFY says

WTF is that thing on the door of liberator's party ride?

They are just large Nerf bullets.