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Best possible election system

By Patrick follow Patrick   2022 May 9, 5:22pm 180 views   26 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share      


A proposal:

Ballots are always paper, never a computer screen.
Voting is always in person, never by mail.
Government-issued ID must be presented to vote.
The voter name must be recorded at the place of voting, and published.
The number of votes counted must be identical to the number of voter names recorded and published.

So it will be public knowledge that you did vote, but not how you voted.

For nursing homes and hospitals, perhaps the voting "place" itself could be mobile, with some volunteers going around, checking id's, recording them, and taking the ballots.
1   Blue   ignore (0)   2022 May 9, 5:34pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Add an option- None above in every voters card. Award decent fine to who never showed up. It’s part of the responsibilities.
2   DooDahMan   ignore (5)   2022 May 9, 5:39pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

How about adding in all voters and those running for office be able to pass the same or similar test on the country that those seeking citizenship must take.

Since there are 128 questions on the citizenship test, 70% correct to vote and or run for office
3   DooDahMan   ignore (5)   2022 May 9, 5:40pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Patrick says
with some volunteers going around, checking id's, recording them, and taking the ballots


You already know what this is going to end up being and it is not good
4   DooDahMan   ignore (5)   2022 May 9, 5:41pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Patrick says
Government-issued ID must be presented to vote.


Easiest thing in the world to forge - ask the gangs in L.A.
5   DooDahMan   ignore (5)   2022 May 9, 5:48pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Patrick says
The voter name must be recorded at the place of voting, and published.
The number of votes counted must be identical to the number of voter names recorded and published.


Who is going to be doing the recording and counting ?

Any particular political party in mind ?

How do you keep the $$$$$$ from tainting the results because you know as well as I do that this is going to happen
6   DooDahMan   ignore (5)   2022 May 9, 5:51pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Patrick says
So it will be public knowledge that you did vote, but not how you voted


Until someone "accidently" leaks certain results - not that anyone would stoop so low as to expose someone's voting record - but you never know.
7   Onvacation   ignore (7)   2022 May 9, 6:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Blue says
decent fine to who never showed up. It’s part of the responsibilities.

I disagree. There are too many irresponsible people that should NOT vote.
8   Onvacation   ignore (7)   2022 May 9, 6:16pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Patrick says
Ballots are always paper, never a computer screen.
Voting is always in person, never by mail.
Government-issued ID must be presented to vote.
The voter name must be recorded at the place of voting, and published.
The number of votes counted must be identical to the number of voter names recorded and published.

and voting on one day only. Results should be tabulated within four hours of polls closing.

And no hanging chads!
9   clambo   ignore (4)   2022 May 9, 7:21pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

The system sounds like how it is run in Florida, 2020 was an exception of course.
10   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2022 May 9, 8:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Blue says

Add an option- None above in every voters card. Award decent fine to who never showed up. It’s part of the responsibilities.

I fear that the kind of person who isn't all that interested in learning the issues but is forced to the polls will just vote for the Democrat or, in local elections, will vote for some outlandish candidate to show their annoyance. At Stanford, there were certain perks to voting in student elections ... Bart Simpson won a seat on the student council; an actual student won a seat with nothing more than "vote for me" in his candidate statement.
11   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2022 May 9, 8:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Voting is always in person, never by mail.

Without any doubt, in-person voting on voting day reduces an enormous number of ways to cheat.
12   FarmersWon   ignore (17)   2022 May 9, 8:37pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Patrick says
A proposal:

Ballots are always paper, never a computer screen.
Voting is always in person, never by mail.
Government-issued ID must be presented to vote.
The voter name must be recorded at the place of voting, and published.
The number of votes counted must be identical to the number of voter names recorded and published.

So it will be public knowledge that you did vote, but not how you voted.

For nursing homes and hospitals, perhaps the voting "place" itself could be mobile, with some volunteers going around, checking id's, recording them, and taking the ballots.


Voting should be made public.
Anyone who fear being known how he/she voted can stay home.
Discriminating on basis of voting should carry heavy fines and jail time. Don’t ask don’t tell is bad system.

This will improve the guts of people significantly and reduction in sheep.Politicians will start to tremble in their 👠 👞.
Let lawyers have hay day for while and it will normalize soon.
13   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2022 May 9, 8:47pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

I would like ballots to have a non-predictable, private serial number. For example, a state could generate unique serial numbers based on a cryptographically-strong random number generator. Each ballot is printed with a 6 digit serial number in base 49 (capital and lowercase letters, no vowels to remove all obscenities, and no zero, one, or lowercase L), yielding an easy-to-remember code with over 13 billion combinations. The valid serial numbers are secured on a computer. Nobody knows which person got which serial number.

At the voting booth your ballot has a tear-off copy of the number you keep as your receipt. Later, when all ballots are scanned, all results are put up for public display and you can use your secret serial number to verify your votes were recorded properly. The serial number would also be a trivial way to make sure ballots are not double-counted.

The occasional exception for mail-in voting (active duty service men/women) could vote by mail, also with the same serial number system.

If a mail-in voter needs to "request a new ballot" or someone at the voting booth wants a do-over, then they just print up their own ballot with the same serial number. If they print up a bunch and share them around, then just one of those ballots is going to count.

Since both mail-in and in-person voters re-use the same serial number if they need to print a redo ballot, the state only generates exactly the number of serial numbers needed to handle the entries in the voter rolls. There is no wondering if ballot-box stuffers are printing up thousands of additional ballots or grabbing additional spare ballots.
14   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2022 May 9, 8:56pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

FarmersWon says
Voting should be made public.
Anyone who fear being known how he/she voted can stay home.
Discriminating on basis of voting should carry heavy fines and jail time. Don’t ask don’t tell is bad system.

I'm guessing you don't live in silicon valley. People are fired for their beliefs.

We already have heavy fines and jail time for discriminating on basis of voting. Doesn't work now and definitely won't work in the future if the votes are known.

In addition to corersion (being fired, having house or car vandalized, etc.), another problem is that it aides in buying votes. With secret ballot, I can agree to vote a certain way when accosted by someone with a baseball bat or a $20 bill (stick or carrot) and then secretly vote the way I want to vote. Because coercion can't work with in-person secret voting, it removes an entire area of fraud. (Mail-in ballots, of course, allow the coercion because someone can demand to see the ballot and then use one of the 2000 Mules to drop the ballot at 3:15 AM.)

I'd rather the system I mentioned just above where a private serial number can later be used to look up how my vote was recorded. That would make my vote verifiable to me but not known to others.
15   richwicks   ignore (3)   2022 May 10, 7:07am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

SunnyvaleCA says
I would like ballots to have a non-predictable, private serial number.


Easy to do it this way:

SHA256SUM (A 40 character string + 1) = Serial number 1
SHA256SUM (A 40 character string + 2) = Serial number 2
...
SHA256SUM (A 40 character string + N) = Serial number N

Every number will be unique and it's basically non predictable and can't be repeated.

All this talk about making a reliable verifiable voting system is pointless though. Our government wasn't elected, and they aren't going to be kicked to the curb just because they aren't elected.
16   RWSGFY   ignore (6)   2022 May 10, 7:19am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

SunnyvaleCA says

FarmersWon says
Voting should be made public.
Anyone who fear being known how he/she voted can stay home.
Discriminating on basis of voting should carry heavy fines and jail time. Don’t ask don’t tell is bad system.

I'm guessing you don't live in silicon valley. People are fired for their beliefs.

We already have heavy fines and jail time for discriminating on basis of voting. Doesn't work now and definitely won't work in the future if the votes are known.

In addition to corersion (being fired, having house or car vandalized, etc.), another problem is that it aides in buying votes. With secret ballot, I can agree to vote a certain way when accosted by someone with a baseball bat or a $20 bill (stick or carrot) and then secretly vote the way I want to vote. Because coercion can't work with in-person secret voting, it removes an entire area of fraud. (Mail-in ballots, o...


You can't be fired for political beliefs in CA. I.e. for things like voting or campaigning for a wrong party - it's explicitly ptohibited by the state law. Now, the stuff like number of genders or whether men can give birth - these are not politics (even if they are, really) but something which can be framed as "bigotry" or "not in line with our values as a company". But letting your employer know how you voted is (theoretically) not dangerous and can even be seen as an insurance policy of sorts.

California’s Labor Code 1101 and 1102 make it illegal for employers to:
Terminate employment or retaliate in any other way against an employee for their political views, beliefs, or activity
Adopt or enforce any rule, policy, or regulation preventing employees from participating in political activity
Adopt or enforce any rule or policy in an attempt to control or direct an employee’s political activity
Control or direct the political activity or affiliations of employees by threatening to fire them or retaliate in any other way
Coerce or influence any employee (e.g., by threatening to fire them) to adopt or follow any particular course or line of political activity
Examples of Retaliation for Political Views or Activity
If you were fired for your political views or activity, you might have a retaliation case against your employer. Examples of illegal retaliation because of an employee’s political opinions or activity include:
=Being fired for taking part in the Black Lives Matter movement
=Being demoted after writing a Facebook post about your intention to vote for a particular candidate while your employer supports a different candidate in the same election
=Being fired for campaigning for a candidate for public office when your employer supports another candidate
These are only a few examples of political retaliation that is illegal in California.



PS. That said, I still think individual votes should not be public.
17   richwicks   ignore (3)   2022 May 10, 8:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

RWSGFY says
You can't be fired for political beliefs in CA. I.e. for things like voting or campaigning for a wrong party - it's explicitly ptohibited by the state law.


Haha - good luck suing a multi-billion dollar company with billions of dollars of contract from the government to promote woke propaganda when you're fired for having a political viewpoint at odds with that cabal.

James Damore was fired for his political and scientific beliefs.

Believe me, I'm seen some fuckery in Silly Con Valley. If you try to sue a company with a few dozen lawyers, there's no chance you're going to win unless you are ready to commit years, and millions of dollars to a court case. Companies outright steal patents and ideas and code. Microsoft was notorious for this, the result though was people just stopped working with them. That's part of the reason MS Windows is still behind in many ways. People think Linux is some sort of nerd machine that you have to be an engineer to use but that's just the marketing of Microsoft and Apple.
18   Eric Holder   ignore (2)   2022 May 10, 11:06am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

richwicks says
RWSGFY says
You can't be fired for political beliefs in CA. I.e. for things like voting or campaigning for a wrong party - it's explicitly ptohibited by the state law.


Haha - good luck suing a multi-billion dollar company


The company I work for is regularly handed its ass in court by the employees, both current and former. I swear, the fucking unpaid overtime lawsuits come every 3-5 years like a fucking clockwork and are being consistently lost, with back pay and punitive damages awarded to the plaintiffs. I'm pretty sure this is happening with other companies too.

They want you think they are unbeatable in court, but this is far from truth.
19   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2022 May 10, 11:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

Eric Holder says
I swear, the fucking unpaid overtime lawsuits come every 3-5 years like a fucking clockwork and are being consistently lost, with back pay and punitive damages awarded to the plaintiffs.


Who the fuck is working unpaid OT? Literally past one pay period of unpaid OT I'm leaving the office when my 40 hours is up.
20   Eric Holder   ignore (2)   2022 May 10, 11:20am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

zzyzzx says

Eric Holder says
I swear, the fucking unpaid overtime lawsuits come every 3-5 years like a fucking clockwork and are being consistently lost, with back pay and punitive damages awarded to the plaintiffs.


Who the fuck is working unpaid OT? Literally past one pay period of unpaid OT I'm leaving the office when my 40 hours is up.


The funny part: it's usually salaried employees, who are not technically supposed to get overtime pay who sue for overtime pay after being forced to regularly work nights/weekends and way in excess of 40 hours per week. I guess they do it initally thinking that the situation is temporary and this will improve their chances for a raise/promotion but then realize they are just being taken for fools.
21   FarmersWon   ignore (17)   2022 May 10, 2:05pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

SunnyvaleCA says
I'm guessing you don't live in silicon valley. People are fired for their beliefs.

We already have heavy fines and jail time for discriminating on basis of voting. Doesn't work now and definitely won't work in the future if the votes are known.

In addition to corersion (being fired, having house or car vandalized, etc.), another problem is that it aides in buying votes. With secret ballot, I can agree to vote a certain way when accosted by someone with a baseball bat or a $20 bill (stick or carrot) and then secretly vote the way I want to vote. Because coercion can't work with in-person secret voting, it removes an entire area of fraud. (Mail-in ballots, of course, allow the coercion because someone can demand to see the ballot and then use one of the 2000 Mules to drop the ballot at 3:15 AM.)

I'd rather the system I mentioned just above where a private serial number can later be used to look up how my vote was recorded. That would make my vote verifiable to me...


I live here.
I know they will be fired.
They are fired for no having clot shots.
tomorrow they will be fired for even minor thing they make up.
They won't stop unless you can't even think any other but their way.
...
Eventually state oppression needs to be resisted. Anonymous voting gives all the power to counter. How do you know their count is correct?
It doesn't matter which technology you use, Only tool is people speak up against voting corruption by outing themselves.
22   Onvacation   ignore (7)   2022 May 10, 7:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

SunnyvaleCA says
no vowels to remove all obscenities

As if you could stop the obscene.
23   Onvacation   ignore (7)   2022 May 10, 7:52pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

SunnyvaleCA says
a 6 digit serial number in base 49

FJBLGB
24   Onvacation   ignore (7)   2022 May 10, 7:57pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

RWSGFY says
You can't be fired for political beliefs in CA.

But sadly, some one has to get laid off.
25   Onvacation   ignore (7)   2022 May 10, 8:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

richwicks says
People think Linux is some sort of nerd machine that you have to be an engineer to use but that's just the marketing of Microsoft and Apple.

Said the engineer that builds nerd boxes.

Normal people just want to power up and do our thing without being bothered with installations and configurations.
26   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2022 May 10, 10:21pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote          

FarmersWon says
Eventually state oppression needs to be resisted. Anonymous voting gives all the power to counter. How do you know their count is correct?
It doesn't matter which technology you use, Only tool is people speak up against voting corruption by outing themselves.

Even if named votes were posted, the counter could still miscount. It would still be up to each voter to verify that his/her vote was recorded as they intended. You would just have the additional headache of being ostracized at work, being beaten, or having your car or house vandalized.

My proposal is to have anonymous unique ID and posted to the internet so each voter can check. You'd still have to check and defend your vote. It's just that you wouldn't be forced to disclose your vote just by the very act of voting.

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