patrick.net

Patrick says

All animals are fair game to eat. It's nature. Humans are the only species even engaging in the thought and practice of humane killing of food. Animals will hunt, torture and kill their prey just for entertainment. Not a judgement, just a fact. That includes dogs hunting wabbits and cats torturing birds they injured enough so they can corner them ;)

All babies want to live, where do the PETA /prodeath crowd draw the line?

Patrick says

Old comment, but I think it's just bull shit. I eat plenty of meat (food). I weigh currently what I did senior year in high school at 40. I can work physically for 10-12 hours without a break.

I don't think people understand time that well. 1823 was not that long ago. People (men) would wake up, farm, hunt, gather, etc. They weren't eating a McMuffin and then having a 30 minute lunch and then maybe they'd come home to a dinner the wife made. No, they woke up, worked and ate when they got done. Or they died.

Humanity doesn't exist without eating meat. To even call it an argument means you shouldn't exist in my world. Honestly if you're planning your food for the day like most vegans have to you're an idiot and likely a fickle/weak human. Besides Sundays or vacation, I just eat dinner. Take vitamins so I'm not lacking anything I need. I also get to eat and drink what I want and I still lose weight. I hate the term intermittent fasting. It's called doing what most men used to do, hell even women. In the past you couldn't think about eating or had the time. You had to survive and do things to eat the next meal.

I'm down to one meal a day (OMAD); when I eat, it's 100% grass-fed beef with lots of other fats (cheese, bacon) along with potatoes/tubers. There's something to be said for being in tune to your body, After I feed, I feel a pleasurable sensation which signifies to me that my body is saying "Thanks, I really needed this."

I ask any vegetarian/vegan while I'm pointing to my canine teeth, "If we're supposed to be vegetarians, then what are these teeth for?"

Hell, even Indian women know that when they are pregnant or nursing, they have to eat animal protein. These are people who have practiced vegetarianism for over a thousand years.

I’ve been eating bacon every morning for a year and a half.
My BP is down to 120/78.
Screw “modern nutrition!”
I do eat a fair bit of veg and fruit.

Shaman says

I’ve been eating bacon every morning for a year and a half.
My BP is down to 120/78.
Screw “modern nutrition!”
I do eat a fair bit of veg and fruit.

Haha, I don't think bacon is the best for you.

I eat eggs all the time. I was a vegetarian for 25 years, doesn't make any difference. Since NOT becoming a vegetarian again, I just eat less.

Veganism is impossible by the way, it's an ideal you cannot attain. Speaking from my former side, it's just kind of awful to kill an animal. I've done it, I don't like it, but from my current vantage point, everything dies, and the most humane way to kill a person or animal, is to murder them. The most humane way to live if you eat meat, is to hunt which is paradoxical because we are taught this is cruelty - it's anything but.

Deer running through the forest, blow its brains out. Let it live out its full life, and it will be weak and old, and being torn apart by wolves or dying of disease, suffering, slow agony of death.

I used to do dog rescue, the whole point is to preserve their life. I still had to kill my dogs. I could have let them die naturally, if I was a fucking asshole. There's a point where it's much more moral, and compassionate, to release them. I don't think death should be feared, but it should be as painless as possible. I am troubled to this day about what my dogs felt as their heart stopped. I'll go through a more painful death than them, certainly. Well, unless I commit suicide.

richwicks says

I'll go through a more painful death than them, certainly. Well, unless I commit suicide.

Why? You could die in your sleep, still happens to some these days

mell says

richwicks says

I'll go through a more painful death than them, certainly. Well, unless I commit suicide.

Why? You could die in your sleep, still happens to some these days

I don't think dying in your sleep is necessarily easy. I don't know, never died before.

It's likely I will get very old, very fragile, lose my mind, and suffer for years. I've seen many people die in my family, it's not pleasant. I had a great uncle that got to over 100 years old. He was blind and ultimately deaf, had no idea where he was, or who was with him. He starved himself to death, just quit eating after a point.

Longevity runs in my family. It's a curse. You think it's a blessing, but it's not.

The older I get, if I was still a Catholic, the more I think this is just purgatory. Rationally, I'm a materialist, and I consider myself a meat robot - that my brain creates this concept of a "permanent self" and that doesn't exist, it's just an illusion.

I've got a Killelea cousin who's 103 and in fine shape. I just visited him in May.

He still works on his house, cleaning the gutters while standing on a ladder, etc.

richwicks says

The older I get, if I was still a Catholic, the more I think this is just purgatory. Rationally, I'm a materialist, and I consider myself a meat robot - that my brain creates this concept of a "permanent self" and that doesn't exist, it's just an illusion

How do you explain your self-consciousness and that of others, clearly distinct? Why are you you?

mell says

How do you explain your self-consciousness and that of others, clearly distinct? Why are you you?

Learning? Exposure to ideas? Education? I can't say.

I can't say in the same way I can't say who I was in 1960, because I didn't exist then. I'll doubt I'll exist in 2160. Dust to dust.

My viewpoint is that it's amazing I can think or experience anything at all, and I may just be a meat robot. How does even a proton exist? It's very mysterious that anything exists at all. It's dumbfounding. When you dive down into the complexities of it, it's very mysterious how ANYTHING exists at all.

What do you define as god? That which created us? Well, that exists, but I don't know anything about it, or at least, VERY LITTLE about it. I can't assume it's an intelligent thinking creator. I was indoctrinated into that belief, but I don't think it's true. Something created us, and if you define that as "god", fine I'll agree, but beyond that - is it self aware, can it think, does it have a purpose for us? I have no idea.

And, BTW - I'm not certain I even HAVE consciousness, it may be an illusion. I seem to have it, but how to define it? I may just be acting out a role of physics, and I have no free will, and what I do, I've been destined to do since the beginning of time. I don't know.

We cannot make a machine that has awareness. Isn't that interesting? We can build a machine that has as many neurons as we do (in simulated form) but I don't think it's aware, but how can I tell?

When I was a kid, our reverend told the parishioner's that animals didn't have souls. I remember that shocking me. Animals are as self directed as we are, it's obvious they are. Ever pet a dog, play with a cat? Pet a cow, scritch a sheep? They are alive. They think and react and they have emotional states, they can be happy, or sad, they can have emotional states totally alien to us. When a dog howls, why? It's unhappy, happy, forlorn, lonely? I have no idea. It's an emotional state I cannot access, and that's interesting. Nobody knows why a dog or wolf howls.

There's things on this earth, that can experience what is entirely inaccessible to us. I had Samoyeds, I'd encourage them to howl, but I don't understand it. They are in some sort of state of mindset I cannot access. It's interesting, but they all have it.

I can't explain a dog's awareness. Neither can you. Isn't that interesting? But I'm aware of this. Such a mystery. I don't appeal to religion, but I do admit existence is fascinating. That anything can exist, is perplexing. But at the same time I don't know if consciousness really exists, I might just be a colony of cells, a swarm like a colony of bees, they act like a single organism. Maybe society has a consciousness of its own. Maybe we're a swarm, maybe the swarm is all of humanity, all of living things on Earth, maybe more? Who knows?

WookieMan says

No, they woke up, worked and ate when they got done. Or they died.

No, they made their own schedule.

If they wanted to sit at 11 and eat for an hour and half, they did that. Then worked till the sun went down. No boss, no clock. If they felt like sitting down and smoking a pipe or cigar, they did that, "You already had your 15 minute break, Amos." bullshit.

Life before Carnegie and Taylorism for most.

AmericanKulak says

WookieMan says

No, they woke up, worked and ate when they got done. Or they died.

No, they made their own schedule.

If they wanted to sit at 11 and eat for an hour and half, they did that. Then worked till the sun went down. No boss, no clock. If they felt like sitting down and smoking a pipe or cigar, they did that, "You already had your 15 minute break, Amos." bullshit.

Life before Carnegie and Taylorism for most.

We don't know, but we can record actual history now, if we can preserve it.

I'm looking for an indelible storage mechanism. You find it, I'll make you rich and I mean that. It's not DVD, it's not hard drives. You give me a permanent data storage mechanism, and I'll make you rich. Seriously. Closest thing I've come to it is 5D crystal memory storage.

RC2006 says

That reminds me of that old joke,"What do you call 1000 lawyers lying at the bottom of the sea?" "A good start."

I dated a vegan once. She fucked like a rabbit.

GNL says

I dated a vegan once. She fucked like a rabbit.

But wouldn't eat your meat?

What's the best way to quit Veganism??

Cold Turkey.

... But does eating it make you less likely to blow up???

Grains don't have all essential proteins nor micronutrients to the extent beef does. Many people have intolerances to many grains. Nobody is allergic to beef.

AmericanKulak says

Grains don't have all essential proteins nor micronutrients to the extent beef does. Many people have intolerances to many grains. Nobody is allergic to beef.

I eat what taste good. Beef, pork, deer, elk, chicken, turkey, etc. I generally, of late, fast morning until dinner and just eat whatever the fuck I want then. I feel better. You can only eat so much in one sitting. And I take supplements so I'm getting the essential stuff, albeit in processed form. Don't take any other drugs. And have beer nightly. This is how most of our ancestors lived to create us though usually it was fruits and veggies and not supplements. Same in my book.

AmericanKulak says

Nobody is allergic to beef.

True, except for those victims of a certain tick bite.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13029581/Vegan-restaurant-forced-start-serving-meat-plant-based-customers.html

Vegan restaurant is forced to start serving meat... because it doesn't have enough plant-based customers

HeadSet says

True, except for those victims of a certain tick bite.

I'm so afraid of this! Eating meat is like 1/3rd of the pleasure in life. If I recall the ticks in Texas don't have that parasite yet but still.

just_passing_through says

If I recall the ticks in Texas don't have that parasite yet but still.

Ironic that the tick that causes that allergy to red meat is called the "Lone Star" tick. (It has a white spot on its back).

Patrick says

Well, technically, the Venus Flytrap "Eats Ze Bugs."