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Taxes


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2022 Jul 11, 5:28pm   16,325 views  227 comments

by GreaterNYCDude   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

I've been thinking about this off and on lately, and there's been some recent threads related to the topic, so I figure I'll set up a separate thread.

Until the 16th ammendment was passed in the early 1900's, we got by without fedetal income taxes. Tariffs did the trick. Of course, we were not yet the superpower we became, huge millitary and all, and there were not nearly the federally funded social programs we have today.

Frankly, I don't think your average American realizes how heavily they are taxed. Federal. State (with some excaptions) Property. School. Gas. Sales. Etc.

For most in the middle and upper middle class, federal income tax is the biggest share of taxes paid on a percentage basis.

In a modern captalist economy, it makes more sense to me to tax consumption rather than income.

So why not abolish the federal income tax, and instead have a federal tax on goods and services rendered. Better yet, couple it with a balanced budget amment so that the government can't spend money they don't have.

Taxing goods should be straightforward to implement. Buy a bag of rice, clothes, a house, a car, stock, etc. tax it at a nominal rate to raise sufficent revenue to keep the government running. Tax should apply to individuals and corporations alike. I have no idea what the rate would need to be to replace the lost income income revenue, but there must be a way for the been counters to figure that out.

Same holds for services. From your lawyer to your plumber to your accountant.. services rendered should also be taxed... possibly at a different rate than physical goods, since we are a "service based economy".

Just thinking out loud here.. In the 21st century there MUST be a better way to raise revenue than income tax and the various loopholes used to reduce or even avoid ones tax burden.

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135   GreaterNYCDude   2024 May 13, 7:40pm  

Federal (Effective Rate): 13.5%
State (Effective Rate): 5.7%
Social Security: 6.2%
Medicare: 1.5%
Property Taxes: 5.6%
= 32.5% off the top

Plus
Sales Tax: 8%

Plus "hidden" taxes, fees surcharges, etc.

40% of our house hold income goes back to the government.
136   GreaterNYCDude   2024 May 13, 7:40pm  

40% of our house hold income goes back to the government.


139   RWSGFY   2024 May 21, 3:26pm  

Patrick says






You can move out.
140   rocketjoe79   2024 May 22, 10:22am  

So If I go to, say, Portugal, won't my Social Security Income still be taxed before I receive my check?
141   clambo   2024 May 22, 12:15pm  

US Citizens and legal residents must file a 1040 regardless of where they reside.
Simply moving doesn't save Federal taxes, just state taxes.
142   WookieMan   2024 May 22, 1:50pm  

clambo says

US Citizens and legal residents must file a 1040 regardless of where they reside.
Simply moving doesn't save Federal taxes, just state taxes.

False if you become a citizen of the country you move to. Most want your money and bam, you're a citizen at that point. Either way this is why Puerto Rico and the USVI is a good move as territories. Nothing you need to do and tax advantaged. Hurricanes suck, but the Caribbean is one of the best places on the planet. That's where my snow bird condo will be and I can erase taxes.
143   RWSGFY   2024 May 22, 3:03pm  

rocketjoe79 says

So If I go to, say, Portugal, won't my Social Security Income still be taxed before I receive my check?


If you stay a US citizen, than yes. And if you renounce your citizenship then no SS check will be coming your way, per my understanding.
144   RWSGFY   2024 May 22, 3:05pm  

WookieMan says

clambo says


US Citizens and legal residents must file a 1040 regardless of where they reside.
Simply moving doesn't save Federal taxes, just state taxes.

False if you become a citizen of the country you move to. Most want your money and bam, you're a citizen at that point. Either way this is why Puerto Rico and the USVI is a good move as territories. Nothing you need to do and tax advantaged. Hurricanes suck, but the Caribbean is one of the best places on the planet. That's where my snow bird condo will be and I can erase taxes.


Make it a snow bird bunker and hurricanes won't be an issue.
145   Eric Holder   2024 May 22, 4:47pm  

RWSGFY says

rocketjoe79 says


So If I go to, say, Portugal, won't my Social Security Income still be taxed before I receive my check?


If you stay a US citizen, than yes. And if you renounce your citizenship then no SS check will be coming your way, per my understanding.


No check - no taxes! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
146   fdhfoiehfeoi   2024 May 23, 6:44am  

Moving isn't necessary, renouncing citizenship is. Although even that seems questionable as they just arrested Crypto Jesus despite him living in Spain, and no longer being a US citizen.
147   RWSGFY   2024 May 23, 9:01am  

NuttBoxer says

Moving isn't necessary, renouncing citizenship is. Although even that seems questionable as they just arrested Crypto Jesus despite him living in Spain, and no longer being a US citizen.


He moved to Spain for lower taxes?
149   fdhfoiehfeoi   2024 May 23, 8:30pm  

RWSGFY says

NuttBoxer says


Moving isn't necessary, renouncing citizenship is. Although even that seems questionable as they just arrested Crypto Jesus despite him living in Spain, and no longer being a US citizen.


He moved to Spain for lower taxes?


No idea.
150   clambo   2024 May 24, 5:15am  

The only real way to avoid taxes has been mentioned previously; a Roth IRA, an HSA, live in a non tax state, and have your cash in municipal bonds.

Some guys actually do this; a guy in S. Florida has millions of dollars in muni bonds and pays no taxes on his income.
151   GreaterNYCDude   2024 May 24, 6:44am  

I have a Roth IRA and Roth 401 k, and just started an HSA this year. Obviously I live in a high tax area. I get some extra deductions from my side hustle (engineering consulting) but the amount I pay on my basic income is large once you add it all up.

Once I'm retired it will be less of an issue, house will be paid off and taxes are less than equivalent rent, but I can't touch that money until I'm 59.5 or it's subject to a 10% penalty.

I have three jobs. Main gig, plus side gigs of consulting and teaching. Plus two volunteer positions, one for my church one for myself. I like to say it keeps me out of trouble. Since I generally enjoy what I do, it doesn't always feel like work.

But Americans are heavily taxed even more heavily regulated and have little to show for it. Not sure how to fix the system, but it could use an overhaul.
152   HeadSet   2024 May 24, 8:02am  

GreaterNYCDude says

Americans are heavily taxed

Some Americans. Most Americans are net tax collectors. with the bill being paid by earners outside the government sector and by government deficits and printing.
153   RWSGFY   2024 May 24, 8:59am  

NuttBoxer says


RWSGFY says


NuttBoxer says


Moving isn't necessary, renouncing citizenship is. Although even that seems questionable as they just arrested Crypto Jesus despite him living in Spain, and no longer being a US citizen.


He moved to Spain for lower taxes?



No idea.



I don't think Spain has lower taxes than US. They are way more Socialist than even Kommiefornia. Which makes it a weird destination to relocate to fir someone not keen on paying taxes.
154   WookieMan   2024 May 24, 10:06am  

HeadSet says

GreaterNYCDude says

Americans are heavily taxed

Some Americans. Most Americans are net tax collectors. with the bill being paid by earners outside the government sector and by government deficits and printing.

This. The whole Mitt Romney thing where he said 47% of people don't pay taxes or whatever it was is pretty true. He got one thing right at least... People bitch about taxes because it comes out of their checks and they see it. Most lower earners overpay and bitch and then get it refunded not knowing they pay nothing. Basically uneducated about how taxes work.

SS is a forced savings account and the medical stuff is for when you're old. Perfect system? Hell no, but it's there to help people that don't save. Also most people don't realize on the employer side they're paying 6.2% or whatever it is now for your social security as well.

Most people will never realize how it is until they get to about $150k+ annually. So "maybe" 25% of the population has a rough understanding of taxation. H&R Block exists for a reason. People have no clue how they're taxed so they just pay the McDonalds of accounting.
155   RWSGFY   2024 May 24, 10:16am  

Most people don't need anything more than the McD of accounting either.
156   HeadSet   2024 May 24, 10:45am  

WookieMan says

SS is a forced savings account

More like an insurance policy that anyone who lives to old age collects on.
163   fdhfoiehfeoi   2024 Jun 25, 7:36pm  

For context, $3,000 back then is equivalent to about $330k today:

"“No one who does not earn more than $3,000 a year will be affected by the tax. If you are single and earn $3,001 a year, you will be required to pay a tax of one percent on that additional dollar. If you are married, however, the income exemption is fixed at $4,000, allowing $1,000 extra exemption for the care of a wife.” 25 June 2024, Armstrong Economics."

- Sioux City Journal, 17 November 1913
168   WookieMan   2024 Jul 4, 2:47pm  

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says





He can't tax EV's fully yet or he'd be a hypocrite. The day of reckoning is coming. CA is still a majority ICE vehicle state. They will start bitching if it's just gas tax and not related to oil prices. EV's will be taxed. Just wait.

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