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mell says
why debate if someone is deliberatively obtuse?
Ya can't.
Onvacation says
mell says
why debate if someone is deliberatively obtuse?
Ya can't.
People shouldn't argue, they should discuss.
The problem with a discussion is somebody is being dishonest in it, is that you can't progress if somebody is lying to you.
We live in a (western) world where fair debate, respect for rational argument, and a common sense of ground truths are absent. Argument, therefore, resorts to violence and mass coercion. Perhaps people will get tired of beating each other over the head about various flavors of propaganda, but it won't be any time soon.
stereotomy says
We live in a (western) world where fair debate, respect for rational argument, and a common sense of ground truths are absent. Argument, therefore, resorts to violence and mass coercion. Perhaps people will get tired of beating each other over the head about various flavors of propaganda, but it won't be any time soon.
I think our greatest sickness results from this:
People shouldn't argue, they should discuss.
The problem with a discussion is somebody is being dishonest in it, is that you can't progress if somebody is lying to you.
Link to poll?
ignorant, willfully or not, of what our little tribe (lol) knows is true
nationally these cases are very controversial
A lot of people are willfully ignorant about Hunter's laptop and the Biden family corruption
1) Floyd (Jury was WRONG)
Floyd case polls: Both show majority agreement with jury, but with split along political affiliation. (75% agree 25% disagree)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chauvin-verdict-opinion-poll/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/21/chauvin-verdict-poll-majority-approve-guilty-finding/7316788002/
Rittenhouse case polls: About evenly split overall, but also split along political affiliation (43% agree, 39% disagree)
https://morningconsult.com/2021/11/22/rittenhouse-verdict-poll/
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/crime/rittenhouse_trial_most_democrats_think_kenosha_shooter_guilty_others_disagree
Let me summarize as I understand:
Hunter Biden sat on the board of directors for Burisma for a period of time.
Joe Biden as VP twisted arms to get prosecutor general Viktor Shokin fired during the Poroshenko administration in Ukraine.
Those facts above are undisputed.
Where it gets disputed is whether these two things are related to each other and why Biden got Shokin fired. Here it diverges into 'the official story' and 'the conspiracy theory'.
So why is there such tight agreement by pat netters on these three cases?
DeficitHawk says
So why is there such tight agreement by pat netters on these three cases?
Because we are rational.
And there was MUCH disagreement and debate about those three cases on this forum. We have mostly moved on to talking about corruption, our war with Russia, and the fact that it seems as though some psychopaths are trying to eliminate 90% of the population and reset the world.
And there was MUCH disagreement and debate about those three cases on this forum
DeficitHawk says
So why is there such tight agreement by pat netters on these three cases?
Because we are rational.
Onvacation says
Maybe you could name a few posters who started with different opinions for each case, but eventually became convinced by the rationality and factual of the debate here and converged to the one single Truth? I'd love to discuss with them.
And there was MUCH disagreement and debate about those three cases on this forum.
However as time goes on, and the protests and riots began, peoples opinions changed. Instead of sympathy for Floyd, the prevailing commentary was opposition to BLM and the REACTION to Floyd. I did not see much in the way of debate on the incident itself changing peoples opinions,
In order to build a case you would need these missing pieces of evidence:
1) Evidence that Shokin was aggressively prosecuting the case against Burisma/Hunter
2) Evidence of whatever malfeasance Hunter supposedly did at Burisma
The allegation apparently is that Ukrainian government was buying Joe Biden's favor by funneling money to Hunter via his paycheck at Burisma. And what did it get them? Some blankets and medical supplies.
over time everyone totally converged to exactly the same opinion
Will your opinion change and match the consensus on some, not all, topics discussed here?
I have to wonder... did people really have a debate on whether Floyd death by police officer was right or wrong? or did people have a debate over whether the riots and reactions to the incident were appropriate, and then map their opinions on BLM reactions back to the event itself?
Neither. When the evidence of the Floyd case slowly leaked out the narrative of the brutal police not believing BLM was proven to be propaganda.
Thats not the conclusion I reached when I read the old threads, but if you have one in mind, can you point me to it?
Neither. When the evidence of the Floyd case slowly leaked out the narrative of the brutal police not believing BLM was proven to be propaganda.
Thats not the conclusion I reached when I read the old threads
The numbers before the BLM riots don't support the widely held liberal contention that the police are racially violent, either. In actuality, after adjusted for population, White Males are the most likely victim of police shootings, not Blacks. Despite Blacks being disproportionally involved in violent crime at massively disproportionate rates to other ethnic groups.
White Males are the most likely victim of police shootings, not Blacks.
Oh come on Patrick... you know this type of cherry picking is disingenuous.
they were cheerful and not beating up anybody
Patrick says
they were cheerful and not beating up anybody
Sure, Patrick. They were all totally calm and orderly, following police instructions, chipper and friendly as can be.... just like you say. Your characterization is accurate, there were no exceptions. I am disconnected from reality.
staged
how many were seriously injured on Jan 6?
Ashli Babbit (unarmed woman) who was shamelessly murdered by a capitol police goon
police goon
mell says
staged
Staged? You think the images/videos were staged? they were broadcast live... how could it be staged?
mell says
how many were seriously injured on Jan 6?
114 officers reported injuries resulting from the incident, though I do not know the severity of each:
https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-22-104829.pdf
mell says
Ashli Babbit (unarmed woman) who was shamelessly murdered by a capitol police goon
She was trying to climb through a barricaded door onto the other side which was defended by armed officers, through a window broken by the crowds, I've seen that video. s...
Individual black males are MORE likely to be victims of police shootings than individual white males.
Compare pushing against government barricades to blm
Are individual white males less likely to be involved in/associates/colleagues with criminals or more
likely to be criminals than individual black males?
mell says
Compare pushing against government barricades to blm
I am not making this comparison. I am not defending violent protests from either side. I am not defending vandalism, arson, or any of the other violence or property damage stuff that happened in BLM protests. I am totally opposed to it and think its wrong.
That's my point... You are criticizing violent behavior of one side but defending violent behavior of the other. Thats why you are being hypocritical.
I am NOT doing that.
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By polite, I mean refraining from attacking the person in either direction, but sticking to points of argument instead. So no "You are a (whatever)" will not be allowed. The only appropriate use of "you" will be "Here you said..."
I just ran into an old guy in a cafe who pointed in the newspaper to the governor results in California, which added up to 110%. I said, "well, that's California" and so he accused me of being an "election denier". I asked if he'd seen "2000 Mules" and he said he hadn't "because it's been debunked". Uh, it's the same people who committed the election fraud who are claiming that "2000 Mules" was debunked.
Nor had he heard what was on Hunter's laptop, since he watches only corporate news.
I think I might have made a dent in his wall of denial, and I'd like to try with others.