patrick.net

Facebook app tracks ever link the user clicks on while in the facebook app. Well... duh! Of course it does. And the website of Facebook used from a desktop computer also does the same tracking. So, using the website doesn't reduce tracking.

Web pages verses custom apps:

When the iPhone first rolled out, the phone SDK wasn't ready for public consumption, so Steve Jobs touted that developers could create custom web pages in lieu of "Apps." I recall there were some examples and some design templates to get people started. Wasn't "Widgets" the marketing term for such things? Anway, nobody bought it as a final solution, and, sure enough, a year or so later we had an SDK.

Writing directly with the iPhone SDK gives you direct access to custom phone features not part of standard HTML. For example: the gyroscope, compass, and rotation sensor. Apple could have added non-standard HTML extensions for the new features, but that would still leave you writing everything in the most gawd-aweful programming language ever: Javascript. Real-time action games in Javascript on an early iPhone with a limited power budget? Don't even think about it. Javascript gives, at best, painfully inefficient and complicated access to running the video hardware acceleration. How about OpenCL, OpenGL, and Metal (Apple's video acceleration)? Good luck! Does javascript expose access to the ARM processors vector instructions?

That said, there are plenty of apps that could be just web pages. But, actually, there are plenty of web pages that are exactly that. In fact, if you visit one of those pages, you can bookmark it in such a way that it appears on the launch page just like any other app on the phone and can be managed by the user just like any other app (moved around, deleted, dropped into a folder, etc). I think there are also a lot of apps that are just very basic containers that sport a single screen that houses an embedded version of the system web browser and then the whole thing is written as a web page.

I'd support a http://idontwantyourfuckingapp.com/ website for app's that don't do anything useful beyond what a web page could do. I do notice that on the iPhone I use the phone's browser far more than any specific app. Of the apps I use, by time: podcasts, messages, notes, amazon, clock, maps, phone, calculator. Every one is a built-in except Amazon. The Amazon app could be a webpage, but I shudder to think how poorly the QR and Barcode scanner feature would work in javascript or by having to upload a high resolution image to a server somewhere for processing.

There was a highly touted (at the time) device called the Palm Pre, which did everything through HTML and javascript. What? You have never heard of the thing? ... perfect example of why a web-only device just won't cut it for everything.

Lots of useless Apps, almost all the corporate ones. I use Dunkie's and Winndixie, but both could easily be a website.

SunnyvaleCA says

a web-only device just won't cut it for everything

HTML and javascript are very different now. Progressive web apps are web pages which are indistinguishable from apps, yet far more private and secure for the user because they are web pages.

SunnyvaleCA says

using the website doesn't reduce tracking

Not true. You have no chance of decompiling and app and selectively removing spyware.

But you can easily do a dozen things to a web page to remove spyware.

How can you tell if a website tracks your clicks? Can it tracks more than the first click leaving it's url? Meaning, if I'm on xyz.com and I enter a url to abc.com, will xyz.com know what url I've jumped to? If so, will xyz.com know where I go after I went to abc.com?

If you are on xyz.com and manually type in the url abc.com, then xyz.com cannot know about it. Nor can xyz.com know anything after that.

But if you are using the Facebook app, then Facebook knows every single URL you visit while using its app.

GNL says

How can you tell if a website tracks your clicks? Can it tracks more than the first click leaving it's url? Meaning, if I'm on xyz.com and I enter a url to abc.com, will xyz.com know what url I've jumped to? If so, will xyz.com know where I go after I went to abc.com?

I believe the Facebook link links to a Facebook resolving server that then redirects you to where you want to go. The resolving server is what redirects you, so without first landing there (and being tracked because you landed there) you can't go. The token on the original Facebook page encrypts your userID + ID of where you want to go, so you can't just strip out your identity and have the token work.

Patrick says

SunnyvaleCA says

a web-only device just won't cut it for everything

HTML and javascript are very different now. Progressive web apps are web pages which are indistinguishable from apps, yet far more private and secure for the user because they are web pages.

There are games that use 100% of all available CPU cores. On Android and iOS alike, the game core is often written in optimized C++ because Java, Objective-C, and Swift are just "too slow." If nothing else, some of these games use all available memory; javascript is memory layout packing inefficient and garbage collection can fall down badly when you are trying to use all available memory for the game.

Patrick says

If you are on xyz.com and manually type in the url abc.com, then xyz.com cannot know about it. Nor can xyz.com know anything after that.

Except that abc.com unfortunately runs scripts that report back to google and facebook that you visited. That's why I run Ghostry script blocker.

Patrick says

SunnyvaleCA says

using the website doesn't reduce tracking

Not true. You have no chance of decompiling and app and selectively removing spyware.

But you can easily do a dozen things to a web page to remove spyware.

You do all this work on your phone? I'd like to see that!
I do run blockers on my phone browser, and advise people to do the same. But beyond that, I can't be bothered trying to do serious web sleuthing on that microscopic screen with no real keyboard and mouse.

Just rented a car for a vacation, and after I paid in advance, I was told "You’ll need the Movly app for verification and rental."

WTF? I don't want their fucking app, and my phone is too old to install it anyway.

I can still cancel, and customer support said they will email me some way to rent without the app, but it's a pain in the ass anyway.

A web page would be fine, but not an app.

Patrick says

Just rented a car for a vacation, and after I paid in advance, I was told "You’ll need the Movly app for verification and rental."

WTF? I don't want their fucking app, and my phone is too old to install it anyway.

I can still cancel, and customer support said they will email me some way to rent without the app, but it's a pain in the ass anyway.

A web page would be fine, but not an app.

There was a trend with restaurants forcing you to download their app in order to read the menu or even order. Enough ppl revolted (I got up and just left), I guess.

Good, we all need to resist the app bullshit as much as possible.

Aside from the stupidity and inconvenience of installing spyware apps for things which can very easily be done in a browser, apps are a huge step toward CCP type monitoring and control.

1000%. I was just bitching about this the other day.

Also, charge me 99c for some shitty app that does one or two small things. Fuck, $3/year if it must be. But $29.99/year for an image to PDF converter is retarded.

SunnyvaleCA says

I do run blockers on my phone browser, and advise people to do the same. But beyond that, I can't be bothered trying to do serious web sleuthing on that microscopic screen with no real keyboard and mouse.

Ditto. And the endless scrolling to get basic info.

Maybe the rental car company is geting revenue from the app company that is collecting and selling your information.

TheAntiPanicanLearingCenter says

SunnyvaleCA says

I do run blockers on my phone browser, and advise people to do the same. But beyond that, I can't be bothered trying to do serious web sleuthing on that microscopic screen with no real keyboard and mouse.

Ditto. And the endless scrolling to get basic info.

Health care providers make me do so. Then when I arrive to my appointment they make me doit all over again on their stupid tablet or paper.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Maybe the rental car company is geting revenue from the app company that is collecting and selling your information.

Yes, I think that's part of the problem. Maybe the car company gets $5 for each install of the spyware.

Apps run as you on your phone so by default they have access to everything. Sure, there are supposedly apis that limit what the app can access, but I don't believe they are "safe and effective" at all.

MolotovCocktail says

There was a trend with restaurants forcing you to download their app in order to read the menu or even order. Enough ppl revolted (I got up and just left), I guess.

It would be a nice public service to say "I don't want your fucking app" before you leave.

Some small municipalities force app usage. There are places where you have to use an app to pay for parking instead of a parking meter.

It's similar to being forced to use credit cards rather than cash, which also results in a loss of privacy and an opportunity for centralized control and suppression of dissent the way they do it in China.

Every fast food got one, you earn points, hate this crap.

FortWayneHatesRealtors says

Every fast food got one, you earn points, hate this crap.

"Welcome to McDonalds. Are you using the mobile app?"

MolotovCocktail says

FortWayneHatesRealtors says

Every fast food got one, you earn points, hate this crap.

"Welcome to McDonalds. Are you using the mobile app?"

Gas stations too, save 5c per gallon. Why do I need their app to get normal price.

A web page these days can do almost everything an app can do, and requires ZERO installation.

"Progressive Web Apps" (PWA) look and act just like apps, but are actually web pages. Developers are told not to use PWAs, but to push apps instead.

Most websites can be used anonymously, but installing any app gives away your real identity to Apple or Google.

Websites cannot be censored, but all apps are subject to Apple and Google censorship.

In a browser, you can instantly click to a different website, but once in an app, all you can see is the app.

Web pages never nag you to update the web page.

Never install apps! Protect your privacy. Demand web pages instead of apps.

Patrick says

Why does my Bluetooth headphones want access to my contacts when I do a first time connection?