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New demographic data released on China.

Old graphic:



New graphic with new data:



And it is still off because China didn't keep track of Covid death numbers...because they didn't want the rest of the world to know them.

China is Demographic Dead Man Walking.

Patrick says

Annnnd....we are supposed to believe that China and India are really going to form an alternative currency together with real teeth?

Trollhole says

Patrick says

Annnnd....we are supposed to believe that China and India are really going to form an alternative currency together with real teeth?

Aaannnnd.....

The BRICS should all simply declare that their currency is 100% backed by silver by weight, instantly redeemable at any time.

As long as they always make good on the redemption promise, their currency will kill the dollar.

On the other hand, they also like the power to simply print money, so they're not likely to give that up.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

For Dollar, he expects China to eke out 5% growth this year, as Beijing forecasts, but without financial or demographic reforms, growth could hover closer to 3% for the next decade.

Nothing at all wrong with 3% growth. What's the problem?

Who owns the debt ? If it is the citizens and/or Chicom / state owned companies like banks, then it does not matter.

Its not like the China sovereign debt holders can legally petition or even protest to get paid 100% face value of the note.

When the citizens are subjects and the companies are owned by the Chinese Communist Party (Chicoms) then it does not matter.

This just means the authoritarian Chicoms can pay less or none without any real consequences; it may just mean its subjects (or citizens)
have to work harder and with a reduced quality of life.

You have a country that is essentially 95% of the same ethnicity / race, so its not going to be hard to maintain cohesion.

Western rules or standards cannot be applied to China in regards to this.
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HeadSet says

For Dollar, he expects China to eke out 5% growth this year, as Beijing forecasts, but without financial or demographic reforms, growth could hover closer to 3% for the next decade.

3% growth is actually good by Western standards. Also consider China's population growth rate has significantly decreased, so relative to this, a 3% rate is desirable.

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Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Year-to-date, China's exports are down 5% compared to last year, while imports have dipped 7.6%

This is due to the baseline effect. The baseline is 2022 when there was still a lot of retail activity at Walmart, Best Buy, etc.

Look at the trucking recession occurring right now.

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Yup. Rapid demographic collapse is a real bitch.

Peter Zeihan predicted this.

Trollhole says

Yup. Rapid demographic collapse is a real bitch.

Peter Zeihan predicted this.

Yes, as far as perhaps GDP growth. But how does this translate to standard of living or quality of life such as in China ?

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Last time China was in this position, it simply devalued its currency by about 33%.

Made manufacturing in China much better than the alternatives.

Why do you think that every right minded Chinese person wants to get their capital out of China?

Sure San Francisco real estate is over valued, but compared to Chinese assets....well...

Misc says

Sure San Francisco real estate is over valued, but compared to Chinese assets....well...

The problem here, is that what do we produce that you want at this point? Jobs here... Why do we need people here for tech?

Need a faster computer? No you don't. I don't. I'm an engineer. You might need a better operating system, Microsoft intentionally slows down the system to make your laptop or desktop "slow". This is easily fixed by a re-install, but after that, it happens more quickly due to updates. I just moved to Linux, 30 years ago. They've been doing this for ages.

Need help trying out Linux? Ping me. You can run it off a USB drive, you do NOT need to install, but you can experience it. 99% of people use their computer just to browse the web anyhow. If you don't install, everything you do is temporary, after a reboot, you're right back to square one. All you need to do is boot off from USB, and that very often requires you to fuck around with BIOS to select boot order. My own machine won't reboot unless I stop the bootup sequence, and select the right device. I'm been amazingly lazy in fixing that when I come to think of it..

Anybody can use Linux at this point. It's a mature operating system, it just has a reputation for nerds and engineers (i.e. professional nerds). You have a disgusting amount of power, but it's all protected by root. You don't need to understand or use this power. You can do bizarre things with this OS. I have a network mount to New Hampshire, and I'm in California - this means I can read the files from that system, like they are local - conditional on the speed of course of the internet connection. You might be like "why would I want to do this??", well, I can copy a file from my local machine to that one, and it's just copying a file and it's accessible 2000 miles away, instantly.

ad says

Yes, as far as perhaps GDP growth. But how does this translate to standard of living or quality of life such as in China ?

Youth unemployment is in the double digits. Which is really bad given China's demographic crisis.The brats don't want to work in factories like their parents did.

And despite all the ghost cities built, housing is unaffordable too.

But the main damage for now is that China is set up to operate in a continuous, high GDP growth boom. Has been for 40 years. Now it is coming to a crashing stop.

China halts release of youth unemployment data

China has decided to halt the release of youth unemployment figures, a month after data showed they reached a record high.

“The economy and society are constantly developing and changing. Statistical work needs continuous improvement”, Fu Linghui, a National Bureau of Statistics spokesman, told a news conference in Beijing, according to the BBC.

The unemployment rate in urban areas reached a record 21.3% for 16-to-24-year-olds in June.

“Chinese statistics often disappear or are revamped when they show undesirable outcomes,” said Chris Low, chief economist at FHN Financial.

For the country as a whole, the unemployment rate in July was 5.3%, up by a tenth, data that was released alongside figures showing a slowdown in retail sales and industrial production growth.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-halts-release-of-youth-unemployment-data-d836a298

I'm sure glad our government doesn't stop reporting un-flattering statistics.

ad says

You have a country that is essentially 95% of the same ethnicity / race, so its not going to be hard to maintain cohesion.

ad says

You have a country that is essentially 95% of the same ethnicity / race, so its not going to be hard to maintain cohesion.

They have a low trust society, unlike the Japanese.

China has a lot of issues, and potential demographic problems, but after visiting it I don't worry too much about it.
They'll keep struggling with some getting ahead, some getting by, and others will die trying (figuratively speaking).

A blessing or a curse in China is the government doesn't spend for a huge welfare state; if your parents are broke you either help them or they go hungry, your parents, your decision.

Imagine how the USA would be without 1. huge welfare state 2. huge military 3. huge government goldbrick employment
We'd all be laughing all the way to the bank with the taxes we would not be paying.

I feel sorry for the Chinese; it's going to be tough to get ahead there for many people outside of the cities.
Oh well.

Patrick says

The BRICS should all simply declare that their currency is 100% backed by silver by weight, instantly redeemable at any time.

As long as they always make good on the redemption promise, their currency will kill the dollar.

On the other hand, they also like the power to simply print money, so they're not likely to give that up.

They won't. Because in reality, having the world's reserve currency pretty much kills your exports. So, you would have to be a nation that doesn't engage much on foreign trade like the US (just 10% to 16% of total GDP is in imports/exports and half that is with Canada and Mexico).

Thus Asia, the EU and most other nations would not want to have a currency that is also the reserve currency.

India might, as it has a pretty closed economy still.

So this BRICS bullshit is all a joke.

Patrick says

The BRICS should all simply declare that their currency is 100% backed by silver by weight, instantly redeemable at any time.

As long as they always make good on the redemption promise, ...

Herein lies the rub....

Apropos, interesting take on Chinese banking from Zeihan: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5_zHjll1M3s

https://babylonbee.com/cleanArticle/president-xi-confirms-chinese-ban-on-bibles-does-not-apply-to-the-message

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makes one wonder how many Chicom spies are there in the USA and Europe

^^^^^^^^^^^
A US researcher has been arrested on charges of stealing trade secrets, including technology used to detect nuclear missile launches, the Justice Department said Wednesday.

Chenguang Gong, 57, of San Jose, California, was arrested on Tuesday, the department said in a statement.
Gong, who was born in China but became a US citizen in 2011, is accused of transferring more than 3,600 files from the research and development company where he briefly worked to personal storage devices.

The company was not identified.

According to court documents, the files included blueprints for infrared sensors used in space-based systems to detect nuclear missile launches and track ballistic and hypersonic missiles.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3251321/us-researcher-chenguang-gong-arrested-stealing-trade-secrets-including-missile-tracking-tech

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This interview with Bret Weinstein freaked me out as he's fairly level headed. He went Panama to see the various immigrant camps and noted a significant difference between the Chinese and everyone else on the trail to cross into the United States.

https://youtu.be/Pp6ZfoHqkCo?si=1q9ixAaEXcBRIaho&t=188

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Yeah Chicoms sending their eyes and ears (or spies) ... so not all of the Chinese immigrants may be coming with the best of intentions

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The Iranians are simply fleeing the oppressive regime same with the Somalis and those from Yemen.

Back to the OP:

China has a bunch of unsurmountable problems right now. A biggie that nobody is talking about is the threat of bank runs. You see hundreds of millions of Chinese have put their hard earned money into Wealth management products. Generally these instruments pay a guaranteed fixed rate of return (similar to what one would expect by investing in stocks here in the US) and are short term in nature, maturing over just a few months. The marks (Chinese savers) have simply rolled them over every time they expire. The day of realization is coming. The Chinese stock market is in the dumps, Chinese real estate companies are going bankrupt (in a Great Financial Recession sorta way) and some real estate holdings ain't ever gonna be completed.

The funds in these Wealth Management Products are simply numbers on the account holders' statements. The underlying value just ain't there. One day (probably all at once) the marks are simply not going to renew their contracts and POOF all their savings whether in WMPs or other financial assets are simply gone. Social upheaval would probably ensue, but be brutally put down.

For now belief in fiction is alive,

China runs a 45% savings rate for households. - Idiots

China is fucked. Travel a bit around the country. Hell most you guys could drive to AZ, just north of Phoenix by Anthem, AZ. I'll give anyone credit where it's due. The CHIPS act is and will be a hit. Biden sucks, but there's never been a POTUS that's a 100% failure. It's a massive plant. I don't want him re-elected but he's done a few good things. No different than Trump allowing little shit Fauci run Covid. That was a fuck up.

One child policy screwed China. We're moving basic chip making back here. Once that leaves China is fucked. Border issues aside, we have plenty of people that will work for $18/hr. No dealing with cargo ships across the Pacific. West coats unions at ports. It really makes no sense to produce a damn thing in China at this point. The tides are turning.

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Another Chicom hacking story, and what concerns me is they stated they could "compromise" a home router and home computers. How can they do this if there are firewalls in place, unless the router and computer has built-in backdoors ?

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The emails they are accused of sending targets often appeared to be from prominent news outlets or journalists, containing hidden tracking links. If a person opened the email sent to them, their information - including their location and IP addresses - would be sent to a server allegedly controlled by the seven defendants.

This information was then used to enable more "direct and sophisticated targeted hacking, such as compromising the recipients' home routers and other electronic devices", US prosecutors said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68659095

WookieMan says

One child policy screwed China. We're moving basic chip making back here. Once that leaves China is fucked.

No. Chip manufacture is largely automated, it's a MAJOR INVESTMENT to build a plant, but look at where we are. In 20 years, a computer chip isn't going to be as much of an improvement as it was from a chip 20 years ago.

It's not going to be going from like 1980 to 2000 in terms of computing power in the next year years, it hasn't been in the last 20 years. We have lower power chips, but I wouldn't say computer chips have VASTLY improved in the last 20 years. A machine from 2010 is fine to use, it's just kind of bulky.

The fact that we don't have enough power generation for the AI server farms is going to put a kibosh on demand anyway.

Misc says

The Iranians are simply fleeing the oppressive regime

.... leaving their relatives as hostages behind.

https://notthebee.com/article/map-shows-chinese-owned-farmland-next-to-19-us-military-bases-in-alarming-threat-to-national-security

The New York Post made a map of Chinese-owned farmland ... why is so much of it next to US military bases?

The New York Post has released a disturbing report showing 19 sensitive military installations in close proximity to farmland recently purchased by the Chinese.

Per the report:

Robert S. Spalding III, a retired United States Air Force brigadier general whose work focuses US-China relations told The Post: "It is concerning due to the proximity to strategic locations... These locations can be used to set up intelligence collection sites and the owners can be influential in local politics as we have seen in the past... It is alarming we do not have laws on the books that would prevent the Chinese from buying property in the US."

Take a look at this map and see for yourself.

I don't get the map though. The red areas are crazy large, including the whole Big Island of Hawaii. Can't be right.

Chinese and US are both in a fight to see who can keep from going into a civil war the longest, winner take a all.

Patrick says

I don't get the map though. The red areas are crazy large, including the whole Big Island of Hawaii. Can't be right.

The Big Island's vast interior is volcanic wasteland. Most of the farms are on Maui, I believe.

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

ad says

You have a country that is essentially 95% of the same ethnicity / race, so its not going to be hard to maintain cohesion.

They have a low trust society, unlike the Japanese.

Russia is a very low-trust society as well:

https://www.rt.com/russia/603009-russians-distrust-each-other-poll/

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

ad says

You have a country that is essentially 95% of the same ethnicity / race, so its not going to be hard to maintain cohesion.

cia in action, yet failed.

Patrick says

Russia is a very low-trust society as well:

That's why 90% of your dash cam videos come out of Russia. People fake accidents there all the time.