patrick.net

They have every right, now a days it's "fuck you, pay me". I am all for it, I can't get someone to work their ass off and have an happy attitude about it. I pay based on skills, I could care less if you don't tell me you enjoy the taste of the shit sandwich I serve you while I burn out your body. Welcome to the machine or get in line to suck off the govt/govt job, is there any in between?

JH says

Um, ever been to Malibu? It's cash, celebrities, etc. Not unlike the fortress up north. Nothing goes for 1/2M in malibu!

Umm, ever been to Malibu? I had more than one friend who had a lease on a mobile home there, students at the time.

There's probably some rednecky types up in the hills without ocean views too. Probably some of them have sold out by now.

Even though the land area of Malibu is huge, the population is tiny. Probably around 12,000 or so.

hanera says

I take it you mean we should wait for the imminent dip and then "buy the dip".

I wish it was that easy!

corntrollio says

Umm, ever been to Malibu? I had more than one friend who had a lease on a mobile home there,

Yep, that sounds about right. Leasing a mobile home. Yeah, American dream. You can also buy a studio for 500k. bfd. Red necks are all over the state, but not many have ocean views. Well, los osos and lompoc maybe ;-)

sbh says

My man, the only survivable way to respond to Reality's idiocy is through specious humor. Education is the light.

Reality is the most ironic PatNet handle.

spydah_hh says

if anything we're closer to socialism.

Perhaps a mishmash of socialism, fascism and capitalism. Currently, socialists and fascists have been fighting with one another for government handouts and both have been railing against capitalism.

Call it Crazy says

hrhjuliet says

Depends on how and where you get your education. A true education is never a waste.

So, spending $80K - $100K to get a Liberal Arts degree is a "good" investment in your eyes??

Depends. If your family has the money, sure. If you are using an education for the sole purpose of employment I would not recommend it.

Plenty of people in my field use a liberal arts degree, but is a career the only way to justify art?

If our school system is only meant to create workers, then we need to revamp the system entirely. Most professions would become a trade, and would go through that system, which usually includes an apprenticeship and and plenty of practical application. If the goal is to create workers we should make a clear separation between trade schools and educational institutions, and give them equal prestige. Law, education, sciences and the arts could be left to the Universities. Almost everything else could be best learned in a trade school.

The world needs art, culture and philosophy - now more than ever. If you plan to eliminate all three from our society you would soon see the terrible results.

On Buying and Selling:

"To you the earth yields her fruit, and you shall not want if you but know how to fill your hands.
It is in exchanging the gifts of the earth that you shall find abundance and be satisfied.
Yet unless the exchange be in love and kindly justice, it will but lead some to greed and others to hunger.

When in the market place you toilers of the sea and fields and vineyards meet the weavers and the potters and the gatherers of spices,
Invoke then the master spirit of the earth, to come into your midst and sanctify the scales and the reckoning that weighs value against value.

And suffer not the barren-handed to take part in your transactions, who would sell their words for your labour.
To such men you should say,
"Come with us to the field, or go with our brothers to the sea and cast your net;
For the land and the sea shall be bountiful to you even as to us."

And if there come the singers and the dancers and the flute players, buy of their gifts also.
For they too are gatherers of fruit and frankincense, and that which they bring, though fashioned of dreams, is raiment and food for your soul.

And before you leave the market place, see that no one has gone his way with empty hands.
For the master spirit of the earth shall not sleep peacefully upon the wind till the needs of the least of you are satisfied.". - Kahil Gibran

One more thought on art:
“If we think we can all agree that we need a better world, a more just world, why is it that we are not using the one language that has consistently showed us that we can break down barriers, that can we can reach people? What I need to say to the planners of the world, the governments, the strategists is, ‘You have treated the arts as the cherry on the cake. It needs to be the yeast” ~ Mallika Sarabhai

I'm stuck in Silicon Hell.

My friend's company is closing its facility in the valley due to his company moving to a place outside of Seattle where rent is much cheaper. It's a big well-known company too. Couldn't help feeling like they got the golden ticket out.

MALIBU POLICE CHIEF
Mr. Treehorn draws a lot of water in this town. You don't draw shit, Lebowski. Now we got a nice, quiet little beach community here, and I aim to keep it nice and quiet. So let me make something plain. I don't like you sucking around, bothering our citizens, Lebowski. I don't like your jerk-off name. I don't like your jerk-off face. I don't like your jerk-off behavior, and I don't like you, jerk-off. Do I make myself clear?
THE DUDE
[after a pause] I'm sorry, I wasn't listening.

JH says

Um, ever been to Malibu? It's cash, celebrities, etc. Not unlike the fortress up north. Nothing goes for 1/2M in malibu!

bubblesitter says

Strategist says

With zero rates and NINJA loans I wont give a damn for wage growth. Just buy up everything, and let the tenants pay off the principal over time. It would be a dream.

Someone pinch me please.

Live your dream!

....anyone living the dream is most certainly not visiting this site

jazz music says

he 60% is the readers poll at the end of that ABC News article: readers who say "ACA is a landmark law that made healthcare affordable"

you sure about them numbers ?

At 49 Percent Support, Obamacare Hits a High"

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/03/at-49-percent-support-obamacare-hits-a-high/

So how about the other 49% say ?

I do not feel stuck in California because of my job. I would list my job among my issues that make me feel trapped here, but it's far beneath my family responsibilities that keep me here. I'm a conservator of my blind brother who should not be moved, and my aging family lives here, among other family issues.

My business is built on almost two decades of hard work and goodwill, and it is the type of business that is limited to the clientele being within driving distance. There is literally nothing I could take with me from my business if l move except experience. My husband is also invested, and his job is anchored here, and I still rank family concerns among my biggest obstacle towards leaving the Valley.

I think some situations are far more complicated than other people not experiencing them would like to believe.

This time it's different!

Call it Crazy says

sbh says

How many of you folks do not have the option of moving out of Cali? Not for nuthin' but I ran the numbers on living there and passed....and I can afford to live just about anywhere....because it seemed, well, sorta foolish.

I've wondered that myself... Seems the ones here bitching about high house prices live in CA.... And the chant is "I can't move, my job is here"....

Well, if you don't want to relocate where housing prices are a 1/3 of CA (or less) and where you won't stress about keeping your job so you can pay for your over-priced house, then suck it up cream puffs!!!

Maybe some year in the future, you'll wake up.....

How about New Jersey, they have propane.

hrhjuliet says

I do not feel stuck in California because of my job. I would list my job among my issues that make me feel trapped here, but it's far beneath my family responsibilities that keep me here. I'm a conservator of my blind brother who should not be moved, and my aging family lives here, among other family issues.

My business is built on almost two decades of hard work and goodwill, and it is the type of business that is limited to the clientele being within driving distance. There is literally nothing I could take with me from my business if l move except experience. My husband is also invested, and his job is anchored here, and I still rank family concerns among my biggest obstacle towards leaving the Valley.

I think some situations are far more complicated than other people not experiencing them would like to believe.

You both have an income coming in. So many have lost their jobs, income and dreams, and if they are 40+, their hopes of landing a replacement job.

"Forming"

LOL

I love reminiscing about late 2011

Property taxes here in Texas are "out of sight". The good part is that we don't have an income tax.

donjumpsuit says

"Forming"

LOL

I love reminiscing about late 2011

All the discussion now sounds just like 2005. For which reason I am no longer concerned prices will stay at this level much longer.

jvolstad says

Property taxes here in Texas are "out of sight". The good part is that we don't have an income tax.

2% is tough. You realize that you are paying the same tax rate ($4k) for a $200k house as a Californian is for a $400k house.

The difference is that this doesn't exist here:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1610-Hays-St-San-Antonio-TX-78202/26114179_zpid/
That was a foreclosure!!!!!

But seriously...this doesn't exist right now either ($2k annual taxes):
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4702-Debbie-Dr-San-Antonio-TX-78222/26310336_zpid/

Call it Crazy says

Jersey is a hell and shit hole, but I deal with it and make our own opportunities... Until the wife's parents die off, I'm stuck here... so, we just make the best of the situation.... The decision we made on our current house puts us in a really nice situation, so it's tolerable (and I'm farther away from the in-laws)... :)

So what happens after the in-laws go to in-law heaven?
Florida? You don't have to shovel snow in March, your wife can have her pool year round, and you can take off on your boat with a girl friend.

jazz music says

I don't much care who we replace them with at this point.

OK, vote me in!

I'll be happy to line my pockets at the expense of everyone else while enjoying the cornucopia hot interns (female only please) lining up outside my door for the pleasure of serving my most hedonistic needs AND the finest healthcare at taxpayer expense. Lets not forget private jets to wherever on all expense paid "fact finding" missions (preferably with several of the aforementioned hottie young interns).

...But at least I won't be a Republican.

Call it Crazy says

sbh says

It's got a "head"..... Does that count??

I don't know for boats. Seriously, though, what 's the name of yours?

It currently doesn't have one... and I think I'm going to leave it that way....

Call it "crazy"

hrhjuliet says

Makes sense, but somehow Facebook got everyone to leave MySpace, and now all my students live on Instagram. The question is how did they do it?

Subliminal messaging.

Plus animal sacrifices.

sbh says

Reality says

decorum

Oh, it's decorum you want? Well, dear chap, it's definitely not on, don't you know, to reckon the value of any school of teaching by toting up the number of government jobs it does or doesn't create, correlate to, or coexist with. It don't enter into it. It's a stupid metric. How do you do that non-number non-measurement thingy you do?

Job prospects induce the creation of educational tracts/disciplines. Not the other way around. The metric that you are thinking of only exists in your own head. So stop projecting. You are your own most effective critic.

sbh says

Reality says

Did you mean brainwashing?

No, dear boy, you did. I am an atheist, but philosophy of religion definitely requires one to think. You are the one who defended religion as a palliative to sociopathy. But when it could be employed to limit your malady you suddenly disavow its application.

Go back to read my original post. I was talking about historical education consisting of reciting scriptures . . . as education was for the bulk of the history of institutionalized education existed in human society. That does not "TEACH ONE HOW TO THINK" in any liberal thought-provoking sense.

As for religion as a palliative to sociopaths with criminal tendencies, no kidding the idea there is brainwashing! so that the criminal mind doesn't get too creative and cause the rest of the society havoc. It's just like sedatives administered to subjects with homicidal and suicidal tendencies.

sbh says

Reality says

At $200k for a bachelor's degree, not many families can afford that kind of money for kid's cultural enrichment.

OK so now you want to attack modern education? Government still exists you know? Gonna change your angle? What do you care about the 200k? It's the same as a Lamborghini that has no back up camera or rear view mirror. Pricing power, grasshopper, deal with it.

$200k in today's dollars is the equivalent of 4 years of median household income. That is actually comparable to the cost of a university degree for most of the history that universities have existed. The cheap college education for the last half century was actually an exception in human history. Given the high cost of advanced education throughout most of human history, the idea that parents send their kids to pursue university degrees for cultural enrichment is simply not realistic for the bulk of human history. Most families had to save and pool resources to pay for the junior's education (usually one among several kids chosen to get the bestowment) as a form of investment, a big investment. As any investment, the investors want returns.

JH says

jvolstad says

Property taxes here in Texas are "out of sight". The good part is that we don't have an income tax.

2% is tough. You realize that you are paying the same tax rate ($4k) for a $200k house as a Californian is for a $400k house.

You are paying the same taxes, not the same tax rate. You also only get 200k when you sell.

The 2% number is wrong. There are additional property taxes locally that are not accounted for in the ad. I've been paying between 2.9 and 3.1% for my properties in south Texas. Which is double what they were 6 years ago. Plus insurance that went from 800 to 1900 while dropping flood coverage in the same time frame because of hurricane fears (absurd, I'm 30 miles from the gulf) is why I will selling the last of my houses in texas in 2 weeks. The extra $2500-2800 a year on 120-130k properties renting for $1200 knocks he crap out of roi. I can do better other places.

sbh says

Reality says

it's silly to structure a society

According to you structure is fascism.

You are just committing intellectual dishonesty by truncating my original sentence:

"It's silly to structure a society or build incentive systems based on irrationality."

If you want to make a case that it is a good idea to structure a society based on irrationality, please do go ahead and make a fool of yourself.

sbh says

Reality says

You actually have no basis to make an assessment on whether I always act based on rational calculations (sometimes I actually do not)

In truth I think you are a narcissistic sociopath who can only view human beings as transactional inputs. You're seriously creepy. As most fanatics, you see satan-government changing reality itself. It bends light; you see it poking its head out of your sister's blouse; it makes the floorboards squeak; it is evil incarnate. Your passionate illness needs a name. Misesogeny? Rothtardation?

Your diversion into content-free personal attacks is only showing your desperation at running out of intellectual depth. Treating hypothetical individuals as rational self-interest seekers is the basis of any economic analysis. It does not mean that I always abide by that rationality all the time, but the exceptions are considered noise when sufficient numbers of people and time span are given for analyzing the social consequences of policy choices. The leading school in this line of thinking is actually Public Choice School, not Mises or Rothbard. Your atavistic thought process is leading you down a path where you will have to refute pretty much every school of economic thought.

hrhjuliet says

The world needs art, culture and philosophy - now more than ever. If you plan to eliminate all three from our society you would soon see the terrible results.

Correct . . . therefore there should not be a high price and high barrier to entry to the pursuit in these fields. Formal institutionalized education in these fields at high cost to students and families may well be a dis-service to the fields. To that list I would actually add medicine as well. Nowadays it's getting to the point where charity hospitals can no longer stay in business because they can no longer afford to hire medical school graduates with enormous educational debts.

hrhjuliet says

And before you leave the market place, see that no one has gone his way with empty hands.

Is that to be accomplished through voluntary exchanges or through the introduction of an abundance of enforcers who come to the market with nothing but weapons? That is the key, and the answer to that question often marks the difference between the markets of plenty vs. empty shelves. Enforcement is not a zero-cost option, but a very high cost tool, sometimes a necessary evil, but always at very high cost.

hrhjuliet says

I do not feel stuck in California because of my job. I would list my job among my issues that make me feel trapped here, but it's far beneath my family responsibilities that keep me here. I'm a conservator of my blind brother who should not be moved, and my aging family lives here, among other family issues.

What about the alternative scenario: moving the entire extended family by selling all real estate holdings in the expensive area, then move to a much less expensive area and use the price difference to get more amenities and helpers?

My business is built on almost two decades of hard work and goodwill, and it is the type of business that is limited to the clientele being within driving distance. There is literally nothing I could take with me from my business if l move except experience. My husband is also invested, and his job is anchored here, and I still rank family concerns among my biggest obstacle towards leaving the Valley.

Some of your clientele may well be paying your service with their home equity LOC. There is some advantage in staying in a high income and high COL area during one's peak earning years. For retirees and people effectively retired, staying in high COL area makes much less sense.

bob2356 says

You are paying the same taxes

Yep, but a Texan first said, taxes are 'out of sight'. They are not. The tax rate is but that means absolutely nothing. My mom pays 5% in a Chicago suburb for shit services and a 135k home. That amounts to as much TAX as a typical 500k home here in OC with great schools, roads, etc. Tax rates are adjusted for home values. In the middle of Illinois, we paid 2%, also, just like Texans do.

On top of having the same taxes as you, we pay essentially 5% state income tax to 100k, and then it goes up from there. That's more than property tax.

Calling Texas property taxes out of sight is simply crap. It's cheap to live there for about a billion reasons.

JH says

My mom pays 5% in a Chicago suburb for shit services and a 135k home.

What suburb does she live in a 135K home?? You can hardly get a house for that in the crappiest near south burbs.

And nowhere do you pay 5%. You're telling me she's paying $6750 on a $135K house?

tatupu70 says

And nowhere do you pay 5%. You're telling me she's paying $6750 on a $135K house?

While that is high even for that region , it is not that uncommon really-especially if they haven't disputed their taxes in a while.

On prices, if you look in realtor.com and Chicago and SFH under 130k-you get over 2,000 listings. Now of course Rahhm is going to increase taxes and reduce services at the same time-what a charming combination!!

lostand confused says

While that is high even for that region , it is not that uncommon really-especially if they haven't disputed their taxes in a while.

OK--I take it back. I looked at some south suburbs and he is correct.

tatupu70 says

I'm from that region and have family there and I find it almost unbelievable

Not really. With prices going down so much, the tax assessments are not matching the downward trajectory as rapidly. Take a look at Zillow or realtor on decent houses-list prices vs property taxes. You will find a few approaching that figure/rate. Disputing is a pastime, but still it takes a while.

now of course 3%+ is almost standard especially collar counties of Cook. Cook was a bit less I believe , but Rahm is going to make up for that.

Though in Indiana I believe they have a cap or maybe just counties on the amount I think?

I am surprised residents put up with this crap though.

tatupu70 says

crappiest near south burbs.

Yep

lostand confused says

collar counties of Cook

Yep

lostand confused says

Cook was a bit less I believe

Nope

lostand confused says

the tax assessments are not matching the downward trajectory as rapidly

It's incredible. Last year the assessment went down by X amount (50%-ish), and the tax rate went up by Y. Amazingly, the tax bill was IDENTICAL!!! To the penny.

lostand confused says

I am surprised residents put up with this crap though.

I've been wondering this for years now.

People are generally Cheap bastards, I don't belive that bidding wars happen by accident, nor do I belive that buyers are presented with facts, when they place the offer.

I mean I believe that Realtors are telling potential buyers that a house has offers over $320K To get them to bid $330 or more, while the current bid be no more than $295K.

The whole contract and buying a house, should be an online transparent affair. Where people can go to a website(That is paid for by the millions of taxes already collected) and bring up any house, and see a list of offers. Hell while we're at it, you should be able to place a bid for that house as well.

I bet we would never have a RE bubble with that type of system.

Realtors are trained to attack people's fears and emotions, while they are most venerable, and manipulate them into placing high bids out of fear of not being able to ever buy a house.

I would be what would happen is the Housing market would behave more like Ebay. Where hot markets are expensive because the rich who live there. But I don't think a shitty Burbdale ranchero, would not be over 200K in most markets, and well under 100K in many other markets.

In the same way that hot items on Ebay are expensive, like classic musical instruments like Moog and Hammond can fetch thousands, but just any Radio Shack or Sears Electronic musical equipment from the same era.

A public bidding system would also paint a telling picture of how the Investor class are getting a better deal, and make you wonder who's financing them. And why aren't they sharing the same property tax burdens the rest of us are?

CaptainShuddup says

I would be what would happen is the Housing market would behave more like Ebay.

Health care and gasoline should also be run this way, on ebay. There is no free market in real estate, health care, gasoline, and I'm sure others could be added to that list.