patrick.net

Darn, was deleting spam and removed previous comment by mistake. Sorry about that!

Patrick

Patrick,

It's quite alright. :)

I made an observation with utter amazement at just how quickly the "FB Issue" has become a "national" issue. BB doesn't seem to be all that surprised.

I'm not sure about stupidity per se, but I bet lots of "inexperienced" "naive" and "victim" will be bandied about.

If I'm asked to bail out these jerks (especially after suffering through 6 years of insufferable FB smugness), I'll be damned if I stick around in this country.

Did anyone see this software that is out that will determine an FB's expiration date?

Consumer Advocate Gill contends that, “If you had a crystal ball that told you precisely what month you would lose your home and your family out on the street, you would do something about it.”

Once this is done, in the case of piggyback loans, users are able to forecast the exact month (and year) they will go into default as interest rates rise and their cash flow is insufficient to meet the increased payments.

allah,

I need some software for my neighborhood that can tell a trophy second wife when she is about to be dumped for the younger upgrade wife. I could make a fortune selling it at certain luncheons.

SFWoman,

What I find particularly revolting is that ANS was dipsh@t's ONLY client!

Is a Federal bailout by definition funded by tax revenues?

Was, for instance, the WPA of Great Depression days underwritten by taxes, or was there some other mechanism through which Washington met those payrolls?

I presume a bailout will be our next instance of America's love affair with easy money, but such a program raises a lot of questions.

Now the question is, what happens to the loan if you are declared a moron by a court of law?

I'm sure uncle ben will take care of that with our tax dollars.

I’m sure uncle ben will take care of that with our tax dollars.

Hmm, tax dollars or printing press. Gee, I wonder.

As one of the few "big L" Libertarians in this forum, I would hate to have to bail out FBs with my tax money. But having come to know this country, I am also darn sure that will happen.

After all, I bail out old people who didn't save enough for retirement, with social security!

I bail out sick people who refused to have a healthy lifestyle, with medicare!

I bail out poor people who have less to offer society, by paying way more taxes than them!

If all of the above sound OK, then why not bail out "downtrodden" homeowners by sharing some of my tax money?

As long as we have a system where money is forcibly removed from people who earn it and distributed amongst people who have done nothing to deserve it, where will it stop and why should it stop?

Anyone who makes money of these bubbles considers himself a genius but when he loses money, he is a victim.

allah,

Harj Gill was ahead of the curve as well when he offered free seminars in Las Vegas (I think their local Triple A baseball team is the "Specuvestors")

He foresaw MASSIVE defaults and offered his services (for a fee of course) but what I don't get is if this Bellevue, WA couple was THAT concerned about the financial impacts of their NAAVLP loan why didn't they just get a freaking amoritizing loan for crissakes!? Or does that atone for the "Helenite" arrogance?

Um. Sorry, all. Guess that was an Econ 101-deprived post.

I presume a bailout is just deficit spending which in turn drives taxes and inflation?

I also suggest bailing out "Big L" Libertarians like us for stupidity in embracing personal responsibilities.

Well, I am not exactly Big-L...

This topic is sort of the flipside of "The Limits of Caveat Emptor" thread, which which mainly dealt with how bad the average clueless buyer's odds are in the face of overwhelming pressure from every corner to Buy-Buy-Buy-Buy now.

Personally, I'd like to see a multi-tiered approach to the problem, that assigns responsibility and risks/consequences for the purchase more correctly, between borrowers, lenders & other REIC intermediaries.

--Borrowers would have a duty to educate themselves about the RE market (I'd like to see Mark's "buyers exam" idea universally required for every FTB). Not smart enough to understand your loan? Not smart enough to buy then!

--However, agents and mtg-brokers would also be regulated as fiduciaries --as stockbrokers now are-- and could no longer make outrageous "15% in the bag" and "it only goes up" claims. IMO, hiding behind the "caveat emptor" defense, while pimping toxic loans like they're going out of style is just as bad as pretending your completely "innocent" while recklessly speculating a-la Casey Serin.

--Lenders should also not be able to dump all the MBS risk downstream without keeping adequate reserves to repurchase the loans back if/when they go bad. After all, if the mortgage market really implodes, it's the taxpayers who will be forced to foot the bill --including those of us who had NO part in this disaster.

I’m sure uncle ben will take care of that with our tax dollars.

Hmm, tax dollars or printing press. Gee, I wonder.

Is there really a difference?

Is there really a difference?

They hurt different people differently.

allah,

He foresaw MASSIVE defaults and offered his services (for a fee of course) but what I don’t get is if this Bellevue, WA couple was THAT concerned about the financial impacts of their NAAVLP loan why didn’t they just get a freaking amoritizing loan for crissakes!? Or does that atone for the “Helenite” arrogance?

Everyone profits in one way or another. The fact is, if the lenders didn't take advantage of these people using suicide loans, Gill wouldn't have anything to sell! Even those who appear to be helping are profiting. Had his company been a non-profit organization or if he was fighting the industry in the courts to stop all this lending, I would take a different view of him, but I haven't heard about anything like this, have you?

He has offered a limited time subscription to use his software free, but that was just to promote it.

They hurt different people differently.

Yes it is true; but they both hurt people. The printing presses will hurt the savers while the taxes will hurt the whole middle class!

Savers, what savers? Oh, you mean us here. They don't care about us.

allah,

Hey don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting Gill! He just has totally different take on debt and actually advocates paying off your mortgage, not leaning on it forever.

What the article said was that he offered some sort of "neg. am. freak out-o-meter" that told FB's when they were going to begin to have excess neg. equity, when their payment would be adjusted AND the exact day the sheriff would foreclose. I never saw anything like that on the guy's web-site!

My point, in a broader sense was wouldn't it be easier to just get a regular loan that has an end to it? Or... does it make more sense to have software to "monitor" your NAAVLP to eternity? :(

Sriram Gopalan Says:

> As one of the few “big L” Libertarians in this forum,
> I would hate to have to bail out FBs with my tax money.
> But having come to know this country, I am also darn
> sure that will happen.
> Anyone who makes money of these bubbles considers
> himself a genius but when he loses money, he is a victim.

Since most FBs don’t “bribe” (I mean “contribute to”) the politicians they probably won’t get bailed out, but the big banks and other that pay “protection money” (also known as perfectly legal “campaign contributions”) will probably end up with boat loads of our tax money as usual…

P.S. It is not just American’s that loose money that play the “victim” card these days. Today on the way in to the office I heard a bunch of gay guys on the radio who were “shocked and outraged” that some NBA player “does not like them”… Why does any “group” car if an NBA player (or Mel Gibson, or that guy from the Seinfeld show) likes them?

GC,

Huh?

Please, do NOT explain! :(

GC,

The ultimate trophy wife would be well bred, very attractive, well educated and have had a meaningful career that either made money or did good in the world. That would be the ultimate wife that a guy could show off.

That's not what I am talking about here. My neighborhood trophy wives are more of the 'Bowling Trophy' variety. Decidely not well bred women who through good looks, certain talents and plastic surgery were able to escape from the typing pool during some affluent man's midlife crisis. Some have children, whom they immediately dump onto an abused nanny who tells all (surgeries! affairs! dirty secrests!) at the playground. Be nice to your help girls (hairdressers and waiters too), because you won't believe the things they tell me.

FAB,

In your estimation was a lot of what we saw on Bloomberg/CSAPN just so much "grand standing" where reps feign concern for their constituents?

SFWoman Says:

> I need some software for my neighborhood that can
> tell a trophy second wife when she is about to be
> dumped for the younger upgrade wife. I could make
> a fortune selling it at certain luncheons.

You don’t need software you just need to ask a few questions:

1. Do both of us come from families where all (or almost all) our grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles, brothers and sisters are happily married and have never been divorced?

2. Do both of us come from families where all (or almost all) our relatives live healthy active lives (they eat well and keep fit)?

3. Do both of us have the same religious beliefs (and strong character)?

4. Do both us have our shit together (graduated from college, good stable job, self supporting, no consumer debt, etc.)?

I do not know (or have even heard of) anyone who answered yes to all four questions before getting married that got dumped for a younger wife (or richer husband)…

P.S. I forget where I saw the study, but the divorce rate for people with married parents, who got married after graduating from college and are the same religion was under 10%...

SFWoman,

Yeah, true that. But you you can't be "too lean" with da' goods! The service people in your life like to feel that they are in some way connected and seem to appreciate a little dirt once in a while. After it's all PK anyway, where's the harm?

I mean, what are the chances the guy that rotates and balances your tires is going to move in the same circles as some floosie receptionist that's already been fired anyway?

FAB,

Your study can predict 'Will he leave?' but not "WHEN will he leave?". These girls need time to prepare for their next act.

FormerAptBorker, i agree with you. South park had a good episode a while ago about tolerance. The word itself implies that it is something that you "tolerate" and that doesn't necessarily mean you have to accept or endorse it. But we seem to have reached a stage where everyone has to absolutely like everyone else and I dont get it.

I am sure there are a lot of folks who don't like (and with good reason!) Could I go around accusing them of being intolerant?

Anyway, getting back to the topic, if the impact of the housing bust is going to be widespread and if there is enough of a stink raised, the government will bail them out using tax money.

After all, stock investors didn't bribe the politicians either but they got bailed out the last time by Al Greenspan and that lead to the current bubble.

Essentially, one bubble was replaced by another to soften the impact and I don't know if Ben Bendover will find another bubble to replace the real estate one. If he does, what would that be? Maybe that should be the next thread - What is the next bubble gonna be?

DinOR,

Egads, I just had my hair cut this week and the hairdresser, receptionist and shampoo girl gave me so much dirt on a couple of people it was unbelievable. I'm nice to them, tip well, and remember them at Christmas. A lot of people are snotty to them, tip poorly, and even pretend not to see them outside of the salon (and I have been told who these people are), yet the same people tell all of their dirt to the hairdresser! They complain to her about their husband's affairs or his inattention to them, then snub her at holiday parties. What are they thinking.

Oh, and the two young socialites in town, who all of the social climbers are always trying to get to be friends with, are really nice to my hairdresser. The girls trying to get to them are not. One of the snottiest even moved her kid to a different school to try to get her kid to have playdates with the other woman's child. Pathetic.

OK, this was not real estate related at all, sorry.

SFWoman,

RE related or not that is DAMN funny! Agreed, "What are they thinking"

It's just so much easier for guys, all you have to say is: "Hey, I'm buyin'!"

palo alto renter,

Thanks. What's more, can we take the "trading stops" out once and for all. It's a market, if you don't want to be here well then you should be free to sell your positions and take your remaining cash elsewhere. :)

Good to see your "attitude" coming around.

GC Says:

> What is a trophy wife anyway?
> Is she typically well-born and/or properly brought
> up? Or is she just a pretty woman?

Then SF Woman Says:

> The ultimate trophy wife would be well bred, very
> attractive, well educated and have had a meaningful
> career that either made money or did good in the world.
> That’s not what I am talking about here. My neighborhood
> trophy wives are more of the ‘Bowling Trophy’ variety.
> Decidedly not well bred women who through good looks,
> certain talents and plastic surgery were able to escape
> from the typing pool during some affluent man’s midlife crisis.

I’ve always said the ultimate “Trophy Wife” (who can be a first wife) is the type of good looking active girl who can catch a fish with a fly rod and prepare a great lunch on the last day of a three day backpacking trip in the Desolation Wilderness area before hiking back to the cabin on the West Shore where she hosts a League to Save Lake Tahoe fundraiser (remembering the names of everyone there and whispering in my ear the last time we met them).

A “Bowling Trophy Wife” (who is almost always a 2nd or 3rd wife) is the type of generally good looking (in a kind of creepy over made up way) non active girl who will charge $10K on your credit cards at little Tahoe City boutiques while you are backpacking then complain about how you are never around while finishing off a bottle of wine watching the cater set up League to Save Lake Tahoe fundraiser (knowing the designer of every persons outfit and whispering in your ear that she wants to go to Aspen next week to buy similar outfits).

SFWoman,

You mean like a Divorce Clock? Or better yet, a diamond studded Omega divorce watch.

Being rather mechanically inept, might I suggest the Divorce Quadrants?

"As seen in marketing, politics, management, and many other places, the Divorce Quadrants determines the four signs that lets you know your marriage is coming to an end, helps you decide your next step and increase your odds of getting a big divorce settlement.

Quadrants are:

Number of plastic surgery procedures during the past 36 months. (Including touch-ups. Procedures to correct prior procedures count as double).

Ugliness of husband's wig. (realistic, faux, dead muskrat…)

Cumulative attractiveness of current household servants, personal assistants, trainers, secretaries, etc.

How much do you hate your spouse, really!

SFWoman Says:

> FAB, Your study can predict ‘Will he leave?’ but not
> “WHEN will he leave?”. These girls need time to prepare
> for their next act.

Women I know hate the “used car analogy” but will usually eventually admit it is true. A small number of men get one car and keep it until they die and a small number of men get a new car every year or two.

Most men get a new car when is stops looking good and becomes a pain in the ass. Since it is a lot harder (and more expensive) to “trade in” a wife a lot more men keep the same wife until they die.

Most men don’t start “shopping” for a younger wife until the current wife stops looking good and becomes a pain in the ass (and even if the guy does “trade in for a newer model” good looking fit older ladies that are not a pain in the ass are the first to sell on the “used car lot”)…

What is a trophy wife anyway?

I thought it is illegal to hunt humans.

"Cumulative attractiveness"

As much as it pains me to admit, that's a sure fire sign astrid!

"Meet my (drop dead gorgeous) assistant"

I will say though that it's always fun to mess with those guys even years later when the receptionist BECOMES the trophy wife by constantly having to "catch" and correct yourself! "Oh that's r i g h t ! Your w i f e. I swear one of these days I'm going to get it right!" :)

After all, I bail out old people who didn’t save enough for retirement, with social security!

That's not really true - you get social security payments no matter what your net worth. So... a more accurate statement would be "After all, I transfer my income to old people through Social Security."

I bail out poor people who have less to offer society, by paying way more taxes than them!

There's sort of an inherent contradiction there - how would someone with $0 income pay more taxes than someone with $1 income?

DinOR,

There was a lawyer at my husband's first law firm (in Boston) who married five times, all but the first were his secretary with whom he was having an affair. Each secretary was simply replaced by the next. They all were different types, he seemed to have this thing where he really, really relied on his secretary for everything.

Can you imagine the alimony?

There is also a shortcut. When your appearance rates close to that of the last ex at the time of her dumping, you know your time is short.