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Reaching Out to The Other Side506


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2007 Sep 3, 4:39am   18,071 views  149 comments

by Peter P   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

Rich Drowning

With home prices falling and subprime mortgages resetting, there will be growing pain among those who have used non-traditional financing to purchases their homes in recent months. As compassionate bloggers, we should seek to comfort them with emotional support. We need them to understand that hope is still within sight and the American Dream is still reachable.

Let's formulate a plan to show our warm hearts.

Note: We should still oppose any form of bailout because that would interfere with Free Market.

-Anonymous

#housing

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1   B.A.C.A.H.   2007 Sep 3, 4:57am  

Our compassionate plan will be to elect Obama

2   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 4:59am  

You seem to forget who pays to keep the lights on in Congress….

Banksters!

I am not entirely oppose to bailing out banks and financial institutions, but it is highly unlikely that individual homeowners will receive help. This is why they need our tender love and care. Perhaps we should write some poems or post some chicken soup recipes. :)

3   e   2007 Sep 3, 5:00am  

How do you plan to care for the homeowners with adjusting ARMS while still opposing a bailout?

By volunteering at soup kitchens?

4   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 5:02am  

Hillary, while still being a “first,” is more likely to win because of her husband.

Sigh. Perhaps.

I rather have a third term for Bush.

5   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 5:05am  

By volunteering at soup kitchens?

As a market advocate, I do not want to encourage volunteerism. The world should operate on profit-motives, not compassion.

That said, emotional support is an acceptable form of compassion. :)

6   Brand165   2007 Sep 3, 5:07am  

Donald says: You seem to forget who pays to keep the lights on in Congress….

Big business? PACs? Lobbyists?

Donald asks: You do not care about [FBs]. How can you when you are regularly telling people that now is a bad time to buy?

So the theory here is to what---help out the current FBs by shoehorning in a fresh crop of naive buyers so they get screwed? You sure you aren't a realtwhore, Don?

You can't help out Enron stockholders by lying to people so they buy the stock at "regular" price. All that makes you is a cheat and a liar. The price has changed dramatically, and there are many folks who were in there on margin because "it always goes up". Housing prices are more subjective, but if we believe there is a bubble, telling people to buy now is just screwing them over. There are other ways to help homeowners in trouble, like the recently proposed refinancing terms the FHA. That helps FBs without creating a mess for a fresh crop of people.

7   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 5:10am  

Donald, you are right. Many on this board, including myself, are anti-welfare.

I would support an immediate abolishment of Social Security.

And emotional support comes free from faith groups like churches.

8   Brand165   2007 Sep 3, 5:12am  

According to OpenSecrets, the NAR PAC spent $3,752,005 in the 2006 campaign: 49% to Democrats and 51% to Republicans. They raised $1,716,960 in contributions of $200 or more.

No amount of contributions can outweigh the NAR's present value as a scapegoat for the subprime implosion. Politicians ultimately pander to the voters, and if the voters like the real estate industry as a whipping boy, the politicians will agree.

Personally, I expect the worst-hit states to pass local legislation that will be far more difficult than anything contemplated by U.S. Congress.

9   jeffolie   2007 Sep 3, 5:58am  

Maybe tough love should be offered.

As most everybody knows, breaking up relationships and marriages brings heart ache and pain. Still we all go on and start over from square one.

Hitting bottom economically brings heart ache and pain but does not kill you. The Great Depression stressed out most of that generation and shaped new values. The Crisis of the Summer of 2008 will move in that direction.

10   Unalloyed   2007 Sep 3, 6:03am  

I'd say $100 for a couple of bus bench ads for "Personal Finance for Dummies" should be sufficient.

11   Paul189   2007 Sep 3, 6:11am  

Donald,

Right on - no bailout for FBs, unemployed and an end to social security!

It's time for people have responsibility for themselves. If the above were to happen, I would commit to doubling my charity and volunter efforts. That situation would mean lower taxes and more time and dollars for charity.

12   Paul189   2007 Sep 3, 6:27am  

Agreed - NO SECTION 8

13   SP   2007 Sep 3, 6:32am  

Donald Says:
Why is everyone against paying other peoples’ mortgagaes?

You are welcome to pay mine, dumbass.

SP

14   SP   2007 Sep 3, 6:39am  

Donald Says:
Well, if there is not going to be a housing bailout, then we need to clean out all of the housing projects across the country and convert them to private housing.

Princeton-logic (tm) ?

SP

15   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 6:47am  

Well, if there is not going to be a housing bailout, then we need to clean out all of the housing projects across the country and convert them to private housing. We are already paying the rent for millions of poor people in private housing through Section 8 and we are paying to maintain housing projects that are infested with crime.

Agreed. There is absolutely no need for public housing if there is no artificial control of housing supply. Likewise, rent control should be made illegal.

Section 8 is a crime.

16   B.A.C.A.H.   2007 Sep 3, 6:52am  

Donald,

Good idea, let's doaway with subsidized housing.
Let's start with the mortgage deduction.
Then, the property tax deduction.

These are all regressive tax policies anyway.

Forget about the FHA cap of $417K. Let's terminate the FHA activity, and also the other gov't mortgage programs.

Then we shall see what home values really oughta be.

17   Brand165   2007 Sep 3, 6:59am  

We should clear out the projects. Instead, the government should purchase small farmland plots and dispatch people to be subsistence farmers. That would be more in line with an American dream, and there is much less crime out in the heartland farms.

18   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 7:04am  

Hosuing projects will not go anywhere because that is where the low cost labor for the wealthy reside.

I am a supporter of the Guest Worker program. I oppose minimum wage.

Rent control is what communists do.

19   Paul189   2007 Sep 3, 7:07am  

Donald,

It's interesting, for a few minutes you had some good ideas, yet you abondon them so easily. Why is that?

20   Paul189   2007 Sep 3, 7:15am  

I oppose house debtor bailout
I oppose Section 8 / HUD
I oppose Social Security
I oppose unemployment compensation
I oppose minimum wage
I oppose guest worker program

I support the constitution.

21   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 7:17am  

Paul, why do you oppose the guest worker program? We should support free flow of labor and capital once the welfare state is dismantled.

22   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 7:19am  

RE: thread graphics

Is that man from Poseidon, the underwater, upside-down vessel? :)

23   Brand165   2007 Sep 3, 7:19am  

Paul, the problem with not providing a minimum level of prosperity for the poor is that once they fall below their absolute needs, taking things from the better-off (not necessarily the wealthy) seems like an increasingly good idea. Refer to Different Sean's many tirades on the subject.

24   Randy H   2007 Sep 3, 7:19am  

It appears that Patrick.net has become a Troll feeding frenzy. I'll be back around when the Trolls get bored and move on to trawling in some other forum, or when TOS posts more pix, whichever comes first. In the meantime I'll start some new housing market topics on my blog (which I've been neglecting for the past 6 months).

25   Paul189   2007 Sep 3, 7:20am  

I would support increased legal immigration.

26   KT191   2007 Sep 3, 7:22am  

Debtors Prison for FB's. They get three meals a day, free education, free housing, free couseling, free health care, free gym membership and they don't even have to worry about what they will wear in the morning. The temptation to take out crazy loans would also be removed. Now that is compassion! Actually, now that I think about it, it would probably be cheaper just to bail them out.

27   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 7:23am  

Paul, the problem with not providing a minimum level of prosperity for the poor is that once they fall below their absolute needs, taking things from the better-off (not necessarily the wealthy) seems like an increasingly good idea. Refer to Different Sean’s many tirades on the subject.

The idea is that once minimum wage is removed, the poor will have a higher level of absolute prosperity. True, the rich will be even better-off, but we are not here to enforce justice. Equality is over-rated.

28   Paul189   2007 Sep 3, 7:24am  

Brand,

entitlements = "...level of prosperity"?

29   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 7:24am  

Debtors Prison for FB’s.

Too costly. It is worse than a bailout.

30   skibum   2007 Sep 3, 7:26am  

I see Donald has gotten himself a good nights sleep and came back with his game face on, ready to tackle the housing bears. Too bad his sad attempts at debate and trolling merely come off as half-witted and ignorant. I suggest naming Donald our very own local village idiot.

It was fun poking at him at first, but now this is just getting fucking BORING.

31   skibum   2007 Sep 3, 7:30am  

What I would like to talk about is this:

http://blog.inman.com/LeamerHousingandBusinessCycle.pdf

Ed Leamer's paper on housing and the economy that he presented last week in Jackson Hole. It was linked over at CR, I read through (most of) it, and it's got some very good stuff. I disagree with some of the conclusions, but one thing that I have argued previously is supported by data in this paper, that in "typical" recessions, housing leads the downturn, followed by consumer spending (read for the Bay Area economy - personal electronics), followed by corporate capital consumable expenditures (for the BA, IT and computer hardware/software upgrades), followed by corporate long-term capital expenditures, like office space and manufacturing equipment.

It seems the Bay Area economy will not be immune to the effects of a likely national recession.

32   KT191   2007 Sep 3, 7:37am  

Although my debtors prison idea was in jest, I do think the consequences for not paying back borrowed money should be more severe. I know too many people who have simply declared bankruptcy with minimal consequences. I even know one moron who has declared bankruptcy twice and is in trouble again right now. I know they changed the bankruptcy laws a few years ago. I have not looked into what changed.

33   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 7:39am  

Although my debtors prison idea was in jest, I do think the consequences for not paying back borrowed money should be more severe.

It is none of the government's business. The lender should have been more careful.

34   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 8:01am  

Peter and Paul …… AMEN.

Where is Mary? :)

35   StuckInBA   2007 Sep 3, 8:02am  

It was fun poking at him at first, but now this is just getting fucking BORING.

Sir Donald seems to have a lot of zeal ! All this when at this point even the bullsh1test of the RE bull has a tough time arguing the bullsh1t case.

Since Donald and TOS know very well that we were right in being a bear, they have already resorted to the other scare tactics. Drumming up the bail-out plan, taunting about how inflation is eating away the renter's savings etc.

Here is a news flash for them. We have been discussing both these topics for a while now. I mean really for a while.

So Mr. Troll no need to waste your time. Maybe we should start talking about how the prices are going to go up in the next spring when the bail-out happen and the Fed reduces the interest rates to 1% or less ?

36   Eliza   2007 Sep 3, 8:13am  

Yeah, I hate the idea of bankruptcy. A college pal of ours who liked to live better than her teacher's salary *intentionally* bought a whole bunch of new expensive stuff on a whole bunch of new expensive cards even as she was making appointments and plans with her bankruptcy lawyer. She ran up an additional $10K in debt so that she would have everything she needed to start fresh. And this was $10K around 1995--to put it in perspective, $10K was close to half of her first year teacher's salary in the town where she lived.

Um, that's stealing.

I like compassion, truly I do, but if you give people a system they can work, they will work it.

37   HeadSet   2007 Sep 3, 8:20am  

Donald expressed:
'Hosuing projects will not go anywhere because that is where the low cost labor for the wealthy reside."

All the housing projects and Sec 8 I know about are welfare recips. They perform no labor for anyone. Is that different elsewhere?

38   skibum   2007 Sep 3, 8:20am  

Peter and Paul …… AMEN.

Where is Mary?

Maybe she's leaving on a jet plane... Or blowing in the wind.

Sorry.

39   HelloKitty   2007 Sep 3, 9:40am  

haha there is no federal rent control, only local and only NY and CA(only some areas).

Thus the AARP could NOT have lobbyists in washington supporting it.

This guy donald really is just makin shit up outta nowhere to troll.

No more reaching out to trolls who make shit up.

40   Peter P   2007 Sep 3, 9:56am  

Can't we just feed trolls until they go burst?

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