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Bap33
2010 Aug 30, 5:20am
just for basic reference:
1. Have no other gods.
2. Have no idols.
3. Honor God's name.
4. Honor the Sabbath day.
5. Honor your parents.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not perjure yourself.
10. Do not covet.
I am guilty of them all, incase anyone wonders. Don't wanna seem all Holy and perfect and such.
@simchaland
Isn't it equally intolerant to disallow the views of those who consider the mosque to be an affront to those who died on September 11th, 2001? If there is no absolute right or wrong, then these two examples of intolerance should be equal. It is equally intolerant of the emotions of the families of those killed to demand the mosque should be built as it is intolerant of Islam to say that it cannot be. Actually, there is greater intolerance on the part of those wishing to build the mosque, because they refused to compromise when offered other locations for their building. So one side was trying to compromise by offering an acceptable alternate location, but the builders of the mosque refused to be tolerant of the feelings of the families.
Also, it is a major reach to claim that the mosque issue is indicative of any threat to religious freedom. The constitution guarantees the right to practice whichever faith you wish, it does not guarantee that there will not be repercussions to your choices. The street corner preacher informing a gay couple that they will burn in hell has every right to his belief, just as I have every right to tell him that I think he's a fool. It is perfectly constitutional for people to express their beliefs that the mosque should not be built, and the majority of people recognize the the builders have the right to build the mosque if they wish to. The majority just believes that they should choose not to out of deference to the families.
The article you linked contains the important information. Yes, there are a few nutbags around the country who oppose the building of any mosque anywhere, but these are the absolute minority, and (again as the article states) there are larger groups of non-Muslims defending the mosques in those areas. Very few people believe it should be illegal to build mosques, most Americans believe that it is legal to build the mosque near Ground Zero.
simchaland
2010 Aug 30, 10:01am
Isn’t it equally intolerant to disallow the views of those who consider the mosque to be an affront to those who died on September 11th, 2001?
Who is disallowing them? They seem to be rather loud and obnoxious and I don't see anyone stopping them from being loud and obnoxious, nor should anyone.
We are all allowed to have our own opinions and give voice to them.
What we are not allowed to do is to take away the right others have to express their religious beliefs, no matter how vile we feel those beliefs to be. That is the point of this entire thread.
Those who don't want the mosque built there get to voice their opinions all they want. At the end of the day, they don't have the right to eliminate those Muslims' right to build a mosque where ever zoning laws allow for it.
So, the Muslims have to tolerate the hate speech of those who would take away their right to religious freedom. These Muslims don't have the right to take away that freedom of speech from the protesters. These Muslims are free to build that mosque where ever they like according to local zoning laws. And protesters have the right to dislike the placement of the mosque or the building of any other mosque in this country, and give voice to it. The protesters do not have the right to take away these Muslims' right to build that mosque where ever local zoning laws would allow. Neither group should infringe on the rights of the other.
That is the whole point of this thread. We need to re-learn tolerance in this country if we are to save the USA that is put forth in our Constitution.
Very few people believe it should be illegal to build mosques, most Americans believe that it is legal to build the mosque near Ground Zero.
And you and I have a very different opinion about what is really going on around this mosque controversy.
elliemae
2010 Aug 30, 12:28pm
Isn’t it equally intolerant to disallow the views of those who consider the mosque to be an affront to those who died on September 11th, 2001?
We should allow them their views. But then, we should recognized that they're nuts. They want to restrict a religion's right to have a place to worship because of some extremists. If that's the case, we should not allow any christians to worship within a certain perimeter of a planned parenthood clinic.
Muslim extremists killed a shitload of people. But they don't represent the muslim religion as a whole, and the freedoms for which we fought should apply to every religion.
Google this: Glen Allport, Have you had enough government regulation yet?
This short article puts everything in proper prospective...except the radical liberals will go nuts and will probably denounce the article and the author (but that's only because they have mental impairments).
Bap33
2010 Aug 31, 8:14am
I liked PGE as a limited-monoploy myself. They (and Army Corps) had done the foundation work, so it made sense for them to enjoy the fruits of their labor ... alot like train people. Just my opinion.
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"While a high-profile battle rages over a mosque near ground zero in Manhattan, heated confrontations have also broken out in communities across the country where mosques are proposed for far less hallowed locations.
In Murfreesboro, Tenn., Republican candidates have denounced plans for a large Muslim center proposed near a subdivision, and hundreds of protesters have turned out for a march and a county meeting." - by Laurie Goldstein, New York Times 8/7/2010
We have had other threats to our Constitutional Separation of Church And State (Freedom of Religion) such as the way Mormons were treated wherever they settled until they settled in present-day Utah. Back then, Mormons were murdered in New York State and Illinois simply for being Mormon and living and worshiping where they wished. It was ugly. It was wrong. And eventually the Mormons prevailed as they should have prevailed.
I'm not a fan of the LDS myself. And I believe they have a right to build worship spaces anywhere they would like so long as zoning laws are followed, just as for any business. And they have the right to practice their beliefs even influencing elections and such. I believe that Americans can decide for themselves which way they'd like to vote on any particular issue no matter what any group professes.
These days, the target is Islam in the USA. We are facing yet another Constitutional Test. Will our Constitution and the Rule of Law prevail in this case? Will today's Americans limit their freedom by scrapping Separation of Church and State and Freedom of Religion? Future generations of Americans are depending on us to do the right thing.
This is a country founded by religious misfits kicked out of European countries. This country has embraced every religion known on this Earth and even many that most would classify as cults are tolerated. Even the Satanists have an easier time organizing and owning property and building in the USA than Muslims do at the moment.
Will we continue to be an open and tolerant society regarding religion? Or will we choose to have the State intervene when we don't like someone's religion. Yes, this is very important to future generations of Americans, and today's Americans. It is a test of our soul as a country.
#politics