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Islam and Violence

By resistance follow resistance   2007 Sep 11, 1:35am 385,383 views   1,621 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Originally from http://www.faithfreedom.org/

A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

Dear friends,

The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.

What the Qur'an Teaches Us:

We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.

Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.

We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

Arabic translation الترجمة العربية

See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.

Please copy this article, and distribute it as widely as possible, both online and physically. The future of humanity depends on it.

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1582   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Apr 22, 1:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

richwicks says
The western governments ARE the terrorists.

You are hitting cognitive dissonance in thinking our governments don't encourage terrorism. Why do you think nobody in Antifa and BLM ever seem to go to prison? The leader of BLM is a corrupt scumbag that has 4 luxury homes and that organization has been looting and murdering for 9 months. She's a terrorist.


Yes, the leaders of BLM/Antifa/socialist parties are scammers and you can call them terrorists. Yes, the US fueled issues in the ME through some of the military actions.
But, islamic terrorism is against anyone that does not want to convert to islam. That's a real threat in Europe and they kill thousands of europeans (non-muslims). Hope we dont get a high influx of muslims to this beautiful country.....you cant really fix that either....they will always hate us because we are not muslims.
1583   Misc   ignore (0)   2021 Apr 22, 2:42pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

@Bitcoin ... uhhhhh....that was a US judge that let terrorist go free
1584   WookieMan   ignore (7)   2021 Apr 22, 2:45pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Bitcoin says
they will always hate us because we are not muslims.

I think Islam is shit. But we also poke the beehive as much or more than they do. They'll just kill themselves if we get out of the way.
1585   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Apr 22, 2:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Misc says
@Bitcoin ... uhhhhh....that was a US judge that let terrorist go free


thanks...even more shocking....i dont mind hanging muslim terrorists....why spend tax payer money on housing them in jail and feeding them?
Kill em.
1586   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Apr 22, 2:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
Bitcoin says
they will always hate us because we are not muslims.

I think Islam is shit. But we also poke the beehive as much or more than they do. They'll just kill themselves if we get out of the way.


as long as we dont let them in here, yes. If we let them in, we are fucked. See Europe.
1587   WookieMan   ignore (7)   2021 Apr 22, 2:57pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Bitcoin says
WookieMan says
Bitcoin says
they will always hate us because we are not muslims.

I think Islam is shit. But we also poke the beehive as much or more than they do. They'll just kill themselves if we get out of the way.


as long as we dont let them in here, yes. If we let them in, we are fucked. See Europe.

I'd agree. Left to their own devices, muslims will just kill themselves anyway. I don't want that toxicity here either.
1588   Rin   ignore (8)   2021 Apr 22, 3:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Bangladeshi immigrant


The saddest part of this story is that many Americans will think he's just an Indian guy when it's clear that no Hindu nor Sikh would plant a bomb, stateside, for the sake of jihad.
1589   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Jun 2, 7:29pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Hilaire Beloc's opinion in the 1930's looks prescient:

Belloc's 1937 book The Crusades: the World's Debate, he wrote,

The story must not be neglected by any modern, who may think in error that the East has finally fallen before the West, that Islam is now enslaved — to our political and economic power at any rate if not to our philosophy. It is not so. Islam essentially survives, and Islam would not have survived had the Crusade made good its hold upon the essential point of Damascus. Islam survives. Its religion is intact; therefore its material strength may return. Our religion is in peril, and who can be confident in the continued skill, let alone the continued obedience, of those who make and work our machines? ... There is with us a complete chaos in religious doctrine.... We worship ourselves, we worship the nation; or we worship (some few of us) a particular economic arrangement believed to be the satisfaction of social justice.... Islam has not suffered this spiritual decline; and in the contrast between [our religious chaos and Islam's] religious certitudes still strong throughout the Mohammedan world lies our peril.

In The Great Heresies (1938), Belloc argued that although "Muslim culture happens to have fallen back in material applications; there is no reason whatever why it should not learn its new lesson and become our equal in all those temporal things which now alone give us our superiority over it—whereas in Faith we have fallen inferior to it."

Belloc continued:

It has always seemed to me possible, and even probable, that there would be a resurrection of Islam and that our sons or our grandsons would see the renewal of that tremendous struggle between the Christian culture and what has been for more than a thousand years its greatest opponent.

"There is no reason why its recent inferiority in mechanical construction, whether military or civilian, should continue indefinitely. Even a slight accession of material power would make the further control of Islam by an alien culture difficult. A little more and there will cease that which our time has taken for granted, the physical domination of Islam by the disintegrated Christendom we know."

At the time of his writing, the Islamic world was still largely under the rule of the European colonial powers and the threat to Britain was from Fascism and Nazism. Belloc, however, considered that Islam was permanently intent on destroying the Christian Faith, as well as the West, which Christendom had built. In The Great Heresies, Belloc grouped the Protestant Reformation together with Islam as one of the major heresies threatening the "Universal Church".
1590   Fortwaynemobile   ignore (3)   2021 Jun 2, 7:37pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I’m starting to really respect Islam. No feminists, no fags, strong religion. America could learn a lesson there.
1591   richwicks   ignore (4)   2021 Jun 2, 7:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Fortwaynemobile says
I’m starting to really respect Islam. No feminists, no fags, strong religion. America could learn a lesson there.


It's filled with sectarian violence.

The reason the west took over the world, is that it had a superior culture.

All the current wave of ultra liberalism will do is eliminate the next generation of nuts.
1592   gabbar   ignore (0)   2021 Jun 3, 1:32am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Islam is said to bind people together. This is only a half truth. For Islam divides as inexorably as it binds. Islam is a close corporation and the distinction that it makes between Muslims and non-Muslims is a very real, very positive and very alienating distinction. The brotherhood of Islam is not the universal brotherhood of man. It is the brotherhood of Muslims for Muslims only. There is a fraternity, but its benefit is confined to those within that corporation. For those who are outside the corporation, there is nothing but contempt and enmity. The second defect of Islam is that it is a system of social self-government and is incompatible with local self-government because the allegiance of a Muslim does not rest on his domicile in the country which is his but on the faith to which he belongs. To the Muslim ibi bene ibi patria (Home is where it's good) is unthinkable. Wherever there is the rule of Islam, there is his own country. In other words, Islam can never allow a true Muslim to adopt any non-Muslim country as his motherland and regard a non-Muslim as his kith and kin. - B. R. Ambedkar, Indian Polymath, Columbia University
1593   gabbar   ignore (0)   2021 Jun 3, 1:38am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Source: http://www.islam-watch.org/Others/Hate_Preaching_Mosque_Muslim_Reactions.htm

The same is true of other statements made in the mosque, including these about Britain and the Islamic state:

“You have to live like a state within a state until you take over.”
“We want the laws of Islam to be practiced, we want to do away with the man-made laws.”
“Muslims shouldn’t be satisfied with living in other than the total Islamic state.”
“I encourage all of you to be from amongst them, to begin to cultivate ourselves for the time that is fast approaching where the tables are going to turn and the Muslims are going to be in the position of being uppermost in strength, and when that happens, people won’t get killed – unjustly.”
“Allah has decreed this thing, that I am going to be dominant. The dominance of course is a political dominance.”
Such statements have been vividly expressed in the writings of twentieth century jihad theorists such as the Egyptian Sayyid Qutb and the Pakistani Syed Abul Ala Maududi. Said Qutb:

It is not the function of Islam to compromise with the concepts of Jahiliyya [the society of unbelievers] which are current in the world or to co-exist in the same land together with a jahili system….Islam cannot accept any mixing with Jahiliyyah. Either Islam will remain, or Jahiliyyah; no half-half situation is possible. Command belongs to Allah, or otherwise to Jahiliyyah; Allah’s Shari’a [law] will prevail, or else people’s desires…The foremost duty of Islam is to depose Jahiliyyah from the leadership of man….
1594   gabbar   ignore (0)   2021 Jun 3, 2:00am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

The doctrines that shape the extremist mindset are :

ONE Polytheism, atheism and apostasy, committed anywhere in the world, are punishable by death. And through this, the clergy — and the militias they inspire — appropriate the power to punish. This is how the Islamic State terror group sources “legitimacy” to reshape its dominion, and by any means.

TWO Only Muslims have the right to govern, and every non-Muslim government is illegitimate. Non-Muslim inferiority is intrinsically linked to the idea of Muslim supremacy and consequently the need to subjugate. Islamic extremists hold the overthrow of non-Muslim governments to be necessary and permissible whenever possible.

THREE Muslims across the globe should be under the rule of a single Islamic government — the Khilafat, or caliphate. This notion occupies a central place in the radical mindset. Even today’s Muslim nation-states, numbering 56, have no legitimacy in the radicals’ eyes.

Source: Javed Ghamidi is a Pakistani Muslim theologian, Quran scholar, Islamic modernist, exegete and educationist. He is also the founding President of Al-Mawrid Institute of Islamic Sciences and its sister organisation Danish Sara.

Source: What is the Cause of TERRORISM ? - Javed Ahmed Ghamidi (English Subtitles) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=andINEkrX50
1595   Blue   ignore (0)   2021 Jun 3, 2:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

gabbar says
its sister organisation Danish Sara.
that is a Pakistanis army camp. Scandinavian countries are in death row. So does US. Time will tell after it's too late.
1597   gabbar   ignore (0)   2021 Jun 3, 4:44am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      


Source: Unholy Alliance, The Agenda Iran, Russia, and Jihadists Share for Conquering the World By Jay Sekulow · 2017
1598   Fortwaynemobile   ignore (3)   2021 Jun 3, 6:31am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

richwicks says
Fortwaynemobile says
I’m starting to really respect Islam. No feminists, no fags, strong religion. America could learn a lesson there.


It's filled with sectarian violence.

The reason the west took over the world, is that it had a superior culture.

All the current wave of ultra liberalism will do is eliminate the next generation of nuts.


Right now left wingers look like they’ll eliminate America.

Middle East sectarian violence is because we bomb them frequently so anarchy takes over.
1599   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Jun 3, 8:47am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I don't think so. Muslims were massacring each other and non-Muslims in the MidEast since the beginning of Islam, especially Sunnis vs Shias.

Look at the history of the early caliphs. I don't think there was even one from the first dozen who was not murdered by the next.

The problem is Mohammed, a violently intolerant guy who robbed, raped, and murdered anyone who criticized him.

And to this day, conversion is a one-way ticket: you can get in, but you can't get out. They'll kill you if you try.

Our own left is also violently intolerant of dissent, but Islam is not the answer. It would be out of the frying pan and into the fire.
1600   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Jun 3, 12:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Islam sucks / most religious muslims suck, many are dangerous. a few muslims are decent on the surface.
Cant compare that to the left. I rather live with leftoids in the US than with muslims. luckily we have effective drones :)

1601   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Jun 3, 1:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Bitcoin says
I rather live with leftoids in the US than with muslims.


The left simply does not understand Islam, and some more routine Islamic terror against them might be what it takes to wake them up. Certainly the left supports many things that Muslims hate, like militant feminism and homosexuality. The contradiction is that the left also suicidally supports Islam itself.

Is Islam right about women? Is Islam right about gays? Leftists cannot even ask these questions because it exposes their own contradictory positions.

The Orlando massacre was a good wake-up call for leftists, maybe. Or maybe they still don't quite get it.
1602   richwicks   ignore (4)   2021 Jun 3, 2:52pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Bitcoin says
Islam sucks / most religious muslims suck, many are dangerous. a few muslims are decent on the surface.
Cant compare that to the left. I rather live with leftoids in the US than with muslims. luckily we have effective drones :)



What are they effective at doing?

Name anything that 20 years of wars that the US has accomplished? It's bankrupted the United States is appears. Name anything else.

Here, we can bomb them for another 100 years, until $100 purchases a gumball because, in some fucking stupid way, you think this is useful in any goddamned way.
1603   Rin   ignore (8)   2021 Jun 3, 3:10pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

gabbar says
THREE Muslims across the globe should be under the rule of a single Islamic government — the Khilafat, or caliphate.


There's an old proverb, probably as old as Sargon the Great (of Akkadia) and that's that "He who controls Babylon, controls the world".

What was Mohamed's successor's, Abu Bakr, title upon defeating the Persian Empire? ... the First Caliphate of Babylon.

It only follows that Islam's goal hasn't deviated from its original Paul of Tarsus.

Realize, Mohamed himself never left the sands of Arabia but his dream team of thugs: Abu Bakr, Khalid Ibin Walid, and Umar conquered the near east.

And unlike the story of Paul and Jesus, where Paul only saw Jesus as a vision, Abu Bakr was Mohamed's father-in-law as he gave his 6 year old daughter in marriage to the so-called prophet.

What a great dad! ... allowing his pre-pubesent daughter to get mauled by a middle aged pervert.
1604   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Jun 3, 6:44pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

richwicks says
What are they effective doing?

Name anything that 20 years of wars that the US has accomplished? It's bankrupted the United States is appears. Name anything else.


killing bad muslim guys (and bad muslim woman/children). Thats a huge accomplishment. Not many countries pull that off.
Keeping us safe at home so we can buy houses and stocks and have pool parties without having to deal with muslim terrorists here.
The war machine is creating lots of high paying jobs at home.
Compare the US to Europe. Europe is over run by muslim scum. We dont have them here :) :)

I can probably go on, but these are some of the highlights.
1605   richwicks   ignore (4)   2021 Jun 3, 7:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Bitcoin says
richwicks says
What are they effective doing?

Name anything that 20 years of wars that the US has accomplished? It's bankrupted the United States is appears. Name anything else.


killing bad muslim guys (and bad muslim woman/children).


"Bad Guys"? What, is your concept of war exclusively from the GI Joe cartoons of the 1980s?

Name 10 that were killed, with references and in what way that's improved the wealth and resources of the United States and its citizens. You're clearly not familiar with Just War Theory. It's pretty obvious neither our military or our government even attempt to practice it.

Bitcoin says
Thats a huge accomplishment. Not many countries pull that off.


The Uyghurs are Muslim. China seems to be doing a spectacular job, and they do it without spending a trillion dollars a year on their military on a war that they will never win.

The goal of our rulers in endless wars, not to win them. Ever read 1984?

What is the goal of any of US conflicts? The US has bombed Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, and Yemen - for what purpose? Do you even know, GI Joe? I do, endless, purposeless war. It justifies 1/4 of all expenditures on the military, even if it bankrupts the country on useful production.
1606   Blue   ignore (0)   2021 Jun 4, 1:09am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

If US is out, some entities will unite Muslims to fight against US. Other wise Muslims will kill each other in the absence of none Muslims.
1607   gabbar   ignore (0)   2021 Jun 4, 6:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Of course there are exceptions but for the largest part integration to the necessary degree of Muslims is not possible. Clever and compassionate people are working all over Europe on the problem, and they have spent billions of Euros on the project, yet, the problems still continue to grow. The psychological explanation is actually simple. The Muslim and the Western cultures are fundamentally very different. This means Muslims need to undergo very big changes in their identity and values to be able to accept the values of Western societies. Changing basic structures in one’s personality is a very demanding psychological and emotional process. Apparently very few Muslims feel motivated to do so. I only know a few who managed, but I also know that it was a long and exhausting struggle on an inner level for them and that they often pay a high personal price on the outer level because their Muslim friends and families despise and/or disown them for leaving their culture. - Nicolai Sennels, Danish psychologist

- - - -

I have passed through Minneapolis-St. Paul airport a few times. Visited these two cities a few times. Who in the right mind would think that having Somali Muslim immigrants is good for the US?
1608   HeadSet   ignore (2)   2021 Jun 4, 7:24am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

gabbar says
Who in the right mind would think that having Somali Muslim immigrants is good for the US?

Obama.
1609   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Jun 4, 8:03am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

richwicks says
Just War Theory


It seems very just to prevent bad guys (muslim terrorists) from killing innocent americans and others.

richwicks says
Name 10 that were killed

There are not just 10. We killed 1000's if not 10000's of muslim terrorists! Good Job US forces!

richwicks says
China seems to be doing a spectacular job, and they do it without spending a trillion dollars a year on their military


China is a terrible, terrible country. To say they are doing a spectacular job is pretty hilarious....Why dont you move to China and try to make ends meet there?
We are so fortunate to live in the beautiful US!
USA! USA! USA!

spending a trillion dollars for the war machine......its needed to advance in war tech, be the #1 in the world, create jobs at home, stimulates the economy.

You seem like you could be part of a muslim terrorist sleeper cell. Is that true?

1610   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Jun 4, 9:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      


Noticeably absent from the State Department’s rainbow bacchanalia this year would be those embassies in Muslim nations who — much like American corporations changing only their US social media accounts to rainbow colors — have remained silent and monochrome throughout the Middle East.

Don’t expect the left to demand any sort of liberation in those parts of the world. I’m guessing Pride this year in Saudi Arabia will be virtual once again.


https://spectator.us/topic/flags-gay-pride-holy-see/

I suppose Saudi Arabia is useful as an illustration of the hypocrisy of the left. The Saudis would indeed kill the homos if they tried to have a parade there, and yet the homos do not protest Saudi Arabia or Islam.
1611   richwicks   ignore (4)   2021 Jun 4, 12:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Bitcoin says
richwicks says
Just War Theory


It seems very just to prevent bad guys


I'm talking to a child. It's pointless.
1612   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Jun 4, 12:54pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

richwicks says
Bitcoin says
richwicks says
Just War Theory


It seems very just to prevent bad guys


I'm talking to a child. It's pointless.


or you could have just admitted that you cant win here by defending muslim terrorist (bad guys).
1613   richwicks   ignore (4)   2021 Jun 4, 1:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Bitcoin says
richwicks says
Bitcoin says
richwicks says
Just War Theory


It seems very just to prevent bad guys


I'm talking to a child. It's pointless.


or you could have just admitted that you cant win here by defending muslim terrorist (bad guys).


I'm pointing out that it's pointless for me to try to engage in an adult conversation with somebody that apparently purposely speaks and writes at a 5th grade level and goes though effort to do it.

You act like a child. I'm not exaggerating, and I'm not insulting you. You engage in entirely childish behavior and express childish opinions. I don't have the energy or desire to waste my time bringing you through about 40 years of education to be able to talk to you on equal setting and I think those efforts would be wasted anyhow, because I don't think anybody that is even 15 is really as childish as you present yourself.

You want to act like a child? Go ahead, but I'm not going to waste my time. I'm sure you're not actually this childish, but you consistently act this way. I'm being too kind in treating you as an intellectual and emotional equal because you simply refuse to act that way. I gave you an opportunity, several of them, you aren't worth engaging with.

I have a policy of never ignoring anybody with any sort of ban, but the reality is, there's no point in talking to you because you're too much of a child to talk to me like an adult. You either possibly can't, or you simply refuse to talk to me as an adult. So either you refuse to be serious, or you are actually this childish. Either way, I find it pointless to try to talk to you like you're an actual adult. Either you're pretending to be stupid, or you're actually stupid - it doesn't matter either way. There's no difference from my point of view.
1614   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Jun 4, 1:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Let's try to not get personal with each other, but debate the points instead.
1615   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Jun 4, 1:44pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

richwicks you just dont like my answers. You wont be able to convince me that "china is doing a spectacular job" and that somehow the work our US forces are doing in the middle east is all for nothing. The US has always and will always step in when help is needed. We chase down the bad guys in this world and keep the world in balance. If we dont do it, who do you rely on? The middle east is a cluster fuck and we step in to not let it get out of hand. We destroyed ISIS. Who would have done this if not us? I cant think of anyone.
If you let a cancer like ISIS grow it becomes unmanageable. We even did it without troops on the ground (mostly). At what point do you admit the US has done well? If you hate the US so much, why live here? If China is so much better, why dont you pack your bags and try it for 6month?

These Seals fight for our freedom. They deserve to be honored and respected
1616   richwicks   ignore (4)   2021 Jun 4, 1:59pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Let's try to not get personal with each other, but debate the points instead.


What points?

That the "United States is in 20 years of fucking war in Afghanistan to 'get bad guys'"?

I have my limit of intentional stupidity. The assholes that run this nation have destroyed this nation by wasting endless resources in pointless, never-ending wars, and I'm supposed to argue over "bad guys"? I'm not goddamned 6 years old any more.

The national debt is now 28 trillion dollars. It will be $40 trillion by 2024. The next generation are going to be slaves and I'm tired of people not recognizing that. The boomer generation sold out the entire nation for their comfort. Generation X (of which I'm part) isn't much goddamned better. I'm rather disgusted by the flippancy of assholes that infest this nation. Do you think this is misplaced anger?
1617   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Jun 4, 2:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

richwicks says
The assholes that run this nation have destroyed this nation by wasting endless resources in pointless, never-ending wars


destroyed this nation? LOL

The US is the best place to live!

This is a relatively affordable place to buy in the US:


This is Ahmad burning our flag in the cluster fuck called middle east


And this is in China. Enjoy the air!


I can imagine you moving to China because they do such a spectacular job.....I give you about 2 days until you want to come back :)
1618   gabbar   ignore (0)   2021 Jun 7, 6:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Bitcoin says
I rather live with leftoids in the US than with muslims.


The left simply does not understand Islam, and some more routine Islamic terror against them might be what it takes to wake them up. Certainly the left supports many things that Muslims hate, like militant feminism and homosexuality. The contradiction is that the left also suicidally supports Islam itself.

Is Islam right about women? Is Islam right about gays? Leftists cannot even ask these questions because it exposes their own contradictory positions.

The Orlando massacre was a good wake-up call for leftists, maybe. Or maybe they still don't quite get it.


The puppet liberals don't understand Islam because they have been brainwashed but the puppeteers do understand Islam but they crave power and money and they would consider it reasonable to put the nation and the people under the bus as long as it gets them into power.
1619   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2021 Jun 8, 1:47pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

richwicks says
The boomer generation sold out the entire nation for their comfort. Generation X (of which I'm part) isn't much goddamned better.

Don't forget the "greatest" generation. They did some pretty heinous shit to Miss Liberty.
1620   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2021 Jun 8, 1:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

It's not a particular generation of people who fuck things up. It's a particular class of people. They love it when we fight each other over age, race, and other superficial characteristics. They continue to profit and get richer while the rest lose.
1621   Bitcoin   ignore (16)   2021 Jun 8, 1:56pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Onvacation says
richwicks says
The boomer generation sold out the entire nation for their comfort. Generation X (of which I'm part) isn't much goddamned better.

Don't forget the "greatest" generation. They did some pretty heinous shit to Miss Liberty.


Millennials (of which I'm part) will save the US. We invest in crypto and new tech. We are open to new ideas and will digitalize money/assets. Also, we will make sure to keep the US safe from muslim terrorism.

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