patrick.net

jvolstad says

It's unfortunate that these people got foreclosed on

It's actually not unfortunate. It might mean that someone responsible might be able to buy their old househome now and for a better price. Former homeowner meet new homeowner (see the net number of people in their "homes" stayed the same!). That's good news!

30% of net or gross income?

noone held a gun to their head telling them to buy, it was their own personal choice. most of which was motivated by greed.

How many of them
1. took max HELOC and blew the money? (freeeeee money!)
2. squatted for 2 years for free b4 foreclosure? (freeeee money)

Anyone with #1 and/or #2 did REALLY REALLY well compared to chumps who rented the last 10 years and paid all thier bills.

So I get the gist of the article is because they are minorites the taxpayers should give them free homes? This is a collapse of civilization when you cant kick non payers out and get a payer in. They are trying to destroy our country.

Am I wrong?

EMan says

noone held a gun to their head telling them to buy, it was their own personal choice. most of which was motivated by greed.

Jeez! It was all banks fault that they loaned em the money in first place. LOL.

we are products of our parents and our culture... The president of the united states was telling people after 9/11 it was our patriotic duty to spend money, buy a house ect... How can u blame people for not stretching to buy a home!?? Look at a 30 year chart of housing, listen to what our president, parents, investors were preaching about housing as an investment... To lay the blame on uneducated masses entirely is ludicrous and rather short sighted...

Los Angeles Renter says

listen to what our president, parents, investors

It is a suicide to listen to idiotic president(s) and investors.

Yes we are all just victims of circumstance. We need more laws to protect us from our own bad decisions. We need our government to watch over our every move and help us with all our financial decisions. We are just too stupid to be held responsible for our actions. Give me a break. People who want that kind of "service" from their government should go live in North Korea where the government will dictate every aspect of your life.

When will people start taking responsibility for themselves????

PockyClipsNow says

Anyone with #1 and/or #2 did REALLY REALLY well compared to chumps who rented the last 10 years and paid all thier bills.

I built credit and saved a ton of money. I feel sorry for those that bought, no not really they are greedy pissweasles and deserve everything they got. For all of the hours and hours I had to sit and listen to... "You better buy now or be priced out forever" and "It is irresponsible for you NOT to buy now, you are dooming your self to a life time of paying high rent."

Norbecker says

Yes we are all just victims of circumstance. We need more laws to protect us from our own bad decisions. We need our government to watch over our every move and help us with all our financial decisions. We are just too stupid to be held responsible for our actions. Give me a break. People who want that kind of "service" from their government should go live in North Korea where the government will dictate every aspect of your life.

When will people start taking responsibility for themselves????

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

Hehe. Good one. It is time for those HELOC suckers to payback to the society.

What really burns me is that people who work at McDonalds took ARM's, HELOC's and pissed it all away get to live in their house for......what is it 2+ years for free. Realtors and brokers made huge commisions. Loan officers and banks made big $$$$$. Banks who made bad business decisions get bailed out.

While the responsible people get nothing but higher taxes.

YEeeeah! this is going to end well.

Norbecker says

Yes we are all just victims of circumstance. We need more laws to protect us from our own bad decisions. We need our government to watch over our every move and help us with all our financial decisions.

do you think the SEC and EPA are bad ideas?

Tell me what the SEC and EPA have to do with Foreclosures and the housing market.

Do you feel safer with the TSA checking baby diapers for explosives? What next? Cavity searches before we can enter a mall to make sure we are not terrorist intent on destruction? Yea lets just give the govt. more power and money.

Norbecker says

While the responsible people get nothing but higher taxes.

..and this despite we being most law abiding citizens in the world? Some one tell me that this system is not going to be screwed?

Norbecker says

Tell me what the SEC and EPA have to do with Foreclosures and the housing market.

you made a broad statement that government should not regulate us (from our own bad decisions. )

that is what the sec and epa do. both are government agencies, while they do not watch individuals, they do watch companies (run by individuals) to ensure they are operating fairly to protect us from ourselves.

Norbecker says

What really burns me is that people who work at McDonalds took ARM's, HELOC's and pissed it all away get to live in their house for......what is it 2+ years for free. Realtors and brokers made huge commisions. Loan officers and banks made big $$$$$. Banks who made bad business decisions get bailed out.

While the responsible people get nothing but higher taxes.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

that is the most infuriating fact of this whole mess.

Govt. should only provide the services that are too big for private business to give the public. Like military protection (not the TSA bull shit at airports now) from foreign invaders.

Did the SEC protect the investors who followed Bernie Madoff???? So why did our govt. (the protector) decide to let Lehman Brothers go BK while bailing out Goldman Sachs?????

Maybe something to do with GS offering better deals to gov. officials for favorable treatment???? Or was it the Lehman bros made bad business decisions that GS did not????

Tell me one thing that our govt. has provided better then a private, for profit, company can not? The govt. is the largest employer (http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm) and who do you think pays for this? Have you ever been to the DMV? How was that service? Why would anyone think that a govt. agency can do what it was intended to do???

Norbecker says

Maybe something to do with GS offering better deals to gov. officials for favorable treatment???? Or was it the Lehman bros made bad business decisions that GS did not????

It was a huge double standard. They practically hand picked who wins and who loses. And I believe it was based on who had best standing in the inner crony federal club.

Norbecker says

What really burns me is that people who work at McDonalds took ARM's, HELOC's and pissed it all away get to live in their house for......what is it 2+ years for free. Realtors and brokers made huge commisions. Loan officers and banks made big $$$$$. Banks who made bad business decisions get bailed out.

While the responsible people get nothing but higher taxes.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

Let me know when they raise taxes... Right now taxes are lower than anytime in history....

Norbecker says

So why did our govt. (the protector) decide to let Lehman Brothers go BK while bailing out Goldman Sachs?????

When the LTCM hedge fund failed in 1998 (the largest WS failure after WWII before 2008), NYFed had asked all major WS firms to contribute to the rescue fund (without govt. money involved), about 300 M each.

Most gave the requested 300 M: Bankers Trust, Barclays, Chase, Credit Suisse First Boston, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, J.P.Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Salomon Smith Barney, and UBS.
All except two: Bear Sterns declined altogether and Lehman eventually gave just 100 M, only after major pressure. These two told Fed they don't believe in bailouts - the "moral hazard" and all.

Well, paybacks are a bitch. And, one must say, fairly so.

Los Angeles Renter says

Let me know when they raise taxes... Right now taxes are lower than anytime in history....

Yes taxes are very low at this time. But the debt ceiling needs to be raised. So our govt. is spending more $$$$$$$ now than ever before. How are they going to pay this all off????? They will not reduce the budget. They will need to get more $$$$. Where will the $$$ come from? How will they get it? Enjoy the low tax party today but the tab will come due.

Vieira and her husband, Nuno, started a successful real estate appraisal business at the peak of the housing market. Six years ago, the couple bought a second home in Reno, Nev., with plans to move their family and business there. According to Vieira, Wells Fargo fraudulently over-appraised the Reno property, leaving them stuck with a high adjustable rate mortgage on a property that is worth much less than their loan.

Wow. An appraiser is blaming and appraiser for overvaluing the house. Did ya do a comp search when you bought the place- your second house? Also, it says that she stopped paying because of the "fraud", which really is just her being pissy that she bought at the peak of the bubble and is trying to make a bad guy out of the people who gave her the money, even though they're the lenders are going to be stuck with the losses. On her second house. Which she can afford.

If this is the best these bleeding-heart, debt-owner-enthusiasts can do to paint a picture of "victimhood" on the part of dumbass bubble-speculators, then maybe it's not so cold-hearted to say that they're getting off easy here.

klarek says

Did ya do a comp search when you bought the place your second house?

Nope! but it always going to up right? If they hadn't bought then they would have been priced out forever, isn't it? Yeah, blame the government/bank for allowing them to get such a mortgage. Give em a break.

I don't quite get the point of this site. Is putting "faces" on the foreclosure stories supposed to lillicit some kind of sympathetic response to these idiots?

The writing is also really poor. They go out of their way to paint the subjects as victims, lauding them with superlatives that don't really apply, (like claiming some woman works 7 days a week...neglecting to fully point out she does freelance taxes and works 7 days a week for about 4 months, and then sits on her ass the other 8)

"According to Vieira, Wells Fargo fraudulently over-appraised the Reno property"

Ok, well she's certainly an unbiased party, and since you did your due diligence and got Wells Fargo's & the actual appraiser's side of the story covered, we'll just accept this as fact. But I do have one question: How does a professional appraiser who has self-professed, "I am a really good researcher" not know the appraisal was fraudulent until 6 years later? Why didn't you fight for a lower sale price when the appraisal came in during the purchase? Could it be......you're full of shit?

"Knowing the mortgage was fraudulent, we just couldn't keep on paying"

Right. Because as we all know, appraisers actually issue the mortgage note. It's not possible that even IF there were impropriety on the part of the appraiser, that WF is possibly insulated against that risk by their contract with the appraisal agency, and that stiffing the lender to get back at the appraiser may not be adviseable, or appropriate. In addition to this, knowingly signing a contract specifically stating, "I agree to pay $xxx,xxx.xx for this house, and I sign my name on this line testifying to the fact that I am ok with paying this much for this house at this time" is not legally binding. You can decide any time you want that you were "duped" and stop paying the mortgage. That's rational.

"Despite the foreclosure, both of us still maintain near perfect credit scores"

Well that's lovely. Strategic default with no consequences! Always tugs on my heart strings. As does this revolting piece of horseshit:

"Despite her preoccupation with the legal fight and occasional absence, Vieira's son, Leo, is a gifted student a first-grader with a fourth-grade reading ability. The couple sends him to a private school, despite the good public schools in the area.

"We can't send Leo [to the public school], because I don't have the time to help him with his homework or to track his progress in school," she said.

-First of all, who gives a fuck how competant her son is at reading? Is this supposed to endear me to the family or something??

You bought an investment property in 2005 in RENO of all places, with an ARM, decided when it went underwater (which probably happened overnight, as it was Reno, NV) to immediately strategically default, you still have your old home, near-perfect credit scores, and despite you being in a nice area with good schools, you still do, and can afford to, send your son to private school because, according to you, you don't presently have the free time to be the over-involved cunt of a mom like you'd truly like to be, so you have to send him to a place that will watch over him like a hawk until your Norma Rae moment is over?

Fuck you

These are horrible case studies. If these are the best examples of unfortunate foreclosure cases they can find, they really aren't looking very hard.

Norbecker says

What really burns me is that people who work at McDonalds took ARM's, HELOC's and pissed it all away get to live in their house for......

And the dumbasses who wrote the loans got a bailout from their bad decisions.

thunderlips11 says

And the dumbasses who wrote the loans got a bailout from their bad decisions.

This is the outrage here. People spend endless hours debating whether it was the RE agents, lenders, appraisers, greedy borrowers, etc who caused this mess. Truth is, it was everyone. It was greed, on everyone's part. I cannot condem people for getting caught up in it. I may have even gotten caught up in it were I 5-10 years older when the madness was going on. The madness is not truly the outrage. The outrage is that people who had no part in this mess have to listen to people who had EVERYTHING to do with this mess, sit here and eschew any personal responsibility and cry foul, and have to watch as the government forgives every type of bad financial behavior on the planet. That is the outrage....that this bullshit is not only being tolerated, but being condoned and in some ways encouraged.

there isn't a debate, I think most understand that it was a clusterfuck of failure of responsibility. And I do agree, it is just not right to make those who were absolutely not involved in this mess pay for it all.

Schizlor says

The outrage is that people who had no part in this mess have to listen to people who had EVERYTHING to do with this mess, sit here and eschew any personal responsibility and cry foul, and have to watch as the government forgives every type of bad financial behavior on the planet. That is the outrage....that this bullshit is not only being tolerated, but being condoned and in some ways encouraged.

No--the madness is that people go out and spend countless hours trying to find stories of people that got a bailout or complain about their situation. And then become angry or outraged because they think someone got something they didn't get.

For god's sake, be happy you were smarter than they were and go out and enjoy life.

Schizlor says

These are horrible case studies. If these are the best examples of unfortunate foreclosure cases they can find, they really aren't looking very hard.

That's the thing. Most of the stories are quite poor. I noted one in a prior thread where this woman pulled out massive equity from her house and wasted it:

http://patrick.net/?p=788850#comment-742818

That woman pulled $465K in equity out of her house, after buying it for $135K, under a $600K cash-out loan. In addition, she has been squatting for at least 36 months (well, now at least 37 months).

Altogether, she has received about $600K in benefits from this house and is acting like she's a foreclosure "victim." She's not a victim! We the taxpayers are victims. The bank is a victim, technically, as much as it pains me to say it. She is not a victim.

If I borrowed that much money to buy stocks, Ferraris, widgets, beanstalks, or even for my own education, you'd tell me I was a deadbeat for not paying my loan. Yet, this person did the exact same thing and because the money is secured by an underwater house, we should treat her differently? She's a deadbeat. Let's treat her like one.

The banksters are culpable too, but I'm tired of these jerkoffs who get media sympathy because journalists can't do their job properly and tell the real story.

Schizlor says

according to you, you don't presently have the free time to be the over-involved cunt of a mom like you'd truly like to be, so you have to send him to a place that will watch over him like a hawk until your Norma Rae moment is over?

Fuck you

ROTFLMAO!

I think this has more to do with the mentality of the American people. We have become a bunch of spoiled rotten whiners. We have a huge sense of entitlement. Everyone is special and is entitled to a house, SUV, a big plasma TV, the latest Apple product even if you are a waiter. We lack responsibility and need someone to place the blame on for any adverse situation we may be in.

We have turned into a country full of spineless weasels trying to suck at the govt. teat.

Norbecker says

I think this has more to do with the mentality of the American people. We have become a bunch of spoiled rotten whiners. We have a huge sense of entitlement. Everyone is special and is entitled to a house, SUV, a big plasma TV, the latest Apple product even if you are a waiter.

Whoa so Consumers are Entitlists, then what do you call people on the Dole?

If you work hard, and you can afford, not though credit mind you, but to buy these things outright. Then damn right they are entitled to them.

People are NOT entitled to scheme ways to have the government charge me to support their lifestyle though.

Norbecker says

We have become a bunch of spoiled rotten whiners.

If that's the case, then you are exhibit A. Complaining because you think some reporter is sympathetic towards a foreclosed homeowner? Really?

Quit whining and get a hobby.

Norbecker says

I think this has more to do with the mentality of the American people. We have become a bunch of spoiled rotten whiners. We have a huge sense of entitlement. Everyone is special and is entitled to a house, SUV, a big plasma TV, the latest Apple product even if you are a waiter. We lack responsibility and need someone to place the blame on for any adverse situation we may be in.

We have turned into a country full of spineless weasels trying to suck at the govt. teat.

Demise of America brought by huge bureaucratic liberal policies.

corntrollio says

Altogether, she has received about $600K in benefits from this house and is acting like she's a foreclosure "victim." She's not a victim! We the taxpayers are victims. The bank is a victim, technically, as much as it pains me to say it. She is not a victim.

sad reality of it all. yet government thinks they are the victims and the rest of us have to support that crap. And than these crybaby types come out wondering why Tea party movement started. Because of bullshit like this.

tatupu70 says

No--the madness is that people go out and spend countless hours trying to find stories of people that got a bailout or complain about their situation. And then become angry or outraged because they think someone got something they didn't get.

For god's sake, be happy you were smarter than they were and go out and enjoy life.

That is so cute, you're now imitating your boy Nomo.

It's not about people getting what you don't get. It's about what is right and what is wrong, living within your means, and not calling playing victim when you're a swindler. Your entire holier-than-thou message which you're plagiarizing from that troll is nothing more than a pathetic reverse outrage strawman: get a life, stop being outraged over something which you're not a victim of. The thing is, nobody is claiming they're a victim, they're just sick of deadbeats claiming victimhood status.
In this case, people who live like greedy fools are being highlighted as victims. Just because somebody hates a hustler or swindler doesn't mean that they envy them.

klarek says

The thing is, nobody is claiming they're a victim, they're just sick of deadbeats claiming victimhood status.
In this case, people who live like greedy fools are being highlighted as victims. Just because somebody hates a hustler or swindler doesn't mean that they envy them

But why go out looking for these seeming victims? Because the media is most definitely not full of stories about them. I read pat.net often and I almost never see any stories about them. To me, it seems like people here go searching for something to be outraged about. Like the guy on the thread last week saying he is jealous of someone collecting unemployment. It's just ridiculous.

It's the whole deadbeat mindset on here. The homeowners that get foreclosed on made bad decisions and they pay for them. You might disagree with the current foreclosure laws. Fine. There are a lot of laws I disagree with.

You are the one with the holier than thou attitude about morality and resonsibility.

EMan says

Demise of America brought by huge bureaucratic liberal policies.

There it is! It's Obama's fault. Because there's a little known, yet oft respected rule here at patnet: if you can't blame the libs or conservatives, it's not worth posting.

Norbecker says

Schizlor says

according to you, you don't presently have the free time to be the over-involved cunt of a mom like you'd truly like to be, so you have to send him to a place that will watch over him like a hawk until your Norma Rae moment is over?

Fuck you

ROTFLMAO

Gotta admit the boy's got a point.

They chose some gawd-awful examples of foreclosures. I knew many people whose homes were lost due to job loss, or financial devastation caused by astronomical medical bills. I couldn't hold my lunch down as I read the first few examples... Not every person in foreclosure is a deadbeat.

However, it's difficult not to laugh when some woman complains that she has to spend the majority of her time fighting the Man , which in turn forces her to spend extra money to send her kid to private school. She's so busy she doesn't have time to work...

If she'd merely shut the fuck up, get a job and send her kid to public school, she'd have the money to pay for that over-inflated "investment property."

tatupu70 says

But why go out looking for these seeming victims?

Who is "looking" for them? They volunteer their sob stories for a web site that's crying for them. I don't "look" for these stories when I'm listening to a piece on NPR talking about some poor old lady who is losing her house of 55 years, neglecting to mention the "why" part of the story which would explain her own actions and behavior which led to the event, like liquidating all of the house's equity. It's the bombardment of this poor-me bullshit that's nothing more than propaganda, and NOT something that I am seeking to hear. If anything, I'm waiting for the sob story which emotes some genuine sympathy. If the best that these propagandists can find are people who are nothing more than greedy or stupid bubble-flippers with a complete abdication of personal responsibility, then my doubts about their victimhood are confirmed.

tatupu70 says

Because the media is most definitely not full of stories about them.

Bullshit. They try their best to turn the "little guy" into the victim and pump these stories all the time. I'm sure it works with a lot of ill-informed viewers and listeners. Clearly you're defending them.

tatupu70 says

To me, it seems like people here go searching for something to be outraged about. Like the guy on the thread last week saying he is jealous of someone collecting unemployment.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about, but your single anecdotal observation must clearly represent everybody that's sick of deadbeat, self-imposed victimhood whiners, and greedy morons getting handouts from banks and taxpayers.

tatupu70 says

It's the whole deadbeat mindset on here. The homeowners that get foreclosed on made bad decisions and they pay for them.

Really? How do they pay? A year or two of rent-free living? You're perpetuating this disingenuous image of the poor little guy that got robbed when in effect the little guy put himself in a situation due to greed and stupidity, and he gets to walk away from it unscathed. Top that with the free rent, and I don't know how you could say with a straight face that they're "paying" for it.

tatupu70 says

You are the one with the holier than thou attitude about morality and resonsibility.

If people simply accepted that their own decisions resulted in their situation and stopped making decisions where the negative externalities are felt and paid for by others that did the right thing, there would be no holier-than-thou attitude. You lack a realistic understanding of these situations, or you simply have no moral compass. At all.