patrick.net
An Antidote to Corporate Media
1,202,370 comments by 14,269 users - Al_Sharpton_for_President, Stout online now
invite response« First « Previous Comments 63 - 68 of 68 Search these comments
chip_designer
2011 Oct 7, 4:06am
would be a fair definition of middle class
it depends on individual perception.
no matter how much money you have, if you feel you
still need to work to support your lifestyle, then you are
in middle class zone.
but if you don't have any money , and you do need to work to pay basic bills, then you are not middle class, you are poor.
Upper middle class is 98 to 99 percentile
Rich is 99 to 99.5 percentile
Ultra-rich is 99.5 to 100 percentileBy the way, for those who say taxing the rich can't solve our debt problem... The area under the curve, i.e. the integral of this curve, is the income that can be taxed. Notice that most of the area under the curve is in the top 2% and a healthy portion is in the top 1%.
That's a great description using the chart. Thanks!
By the way, what are the break points you are using at 98, 99, 99.5, 99.9? Where'd you get them? It seems like you have 2 other points -- what are those?
B.A.C.A.H.
2011 Oct 7, 11:50am
Yep, all the discussion about who's in and who's out of the middle class works well for that construct they prop up to distract the rest of Us from Them, the Super Rich. To Them, we are all the same, we're not them.
Regarding child expenses: The cost of a kid is much higher than Dan8267 indicates.
If you have a one-parent household, there must be childcare during the first five years of life, else there will be no household income. If you have a two-parent household, raising your own kid yourself means dropping or reducing one (or both) incomes--there cannot be two full-time careers in the absence of childcare. And childcare alone easily hits $11,000 (up to $25,000) per year for one child around here. The alternative to childcare would be to drop one career, not just for a few years but maybe forever--it is not always possible to get back in.
Once the kids hit elementary school, childcare costs are still significant if the parent(s) need to be employed full-time. Even given a public school, there will be a need to pay for aftercare (around $700 per month around here) as well as Thanksgiving, Winter Break, Spring Break, and Summer camps (usually $200-300 per week here).
We are not even considering food, clothing, diapers, toys, musical instruments, mandatory donations to public schools, the extra room in your house where the kid will live, or the cost of the safer neighborhood and the better school.
Let's not minimize--kids are incredibly costly.
American in Japan
2011 Oct 7, 10:31pm
@John B.
>I think the change has been from an American Middle Class with everyone else in the world much poorer, to a global Middle Class.
You have some good insight here.
B.A.C.A.H.
2011 Oct 8, 6:36am
American, the more chatter from Us "everyone else" (vs Super RIch) about "who's in, who's out" of the middle class, more chits in the gotcha! column of the Super Rich.
« First « Previous Comments 63 - 68 of 68 Search these comments
I read almost every day about the struggles of "middle class" families, or, more commonly, the decline of the "middle class," or something like "middle class" hit hard by housing bust. Rarely, if ever, is that term actually defined. I am wondering what people on this forum, who seem very informed regarding economic and social issues, think would be a fair definition of middle class. Using only income as the marker, which is of course imperfect for many reasons, I would say that $40,000-$70,000 is lower middle, $70,000 to $120,000 is middle, and $120,000-$250,000 is probably upper middle, for a family of four. Anybody else have an opinion on this? What exactly does it mean when the press reports that "middle class unable to obtain mortgages."
#housing