patrick.net

corntrollio says

You misquoted me, but that is absolutely not true. Unless the government owns 100% of the corporation, it cannot oppress minority shareholders any more than any other majority shareholder can.

what do you mean under "misquoted me"? I pressed "quote" button and as far as I can see your quote is correct.

major shareholder can direct CEO what to do and how to do it...if CEO fails act as told, it picks another person, direct him just the same and make him new CEO.

if you realize that, then then you support my argument and F&F serve at pleasure of WH, at least till they're solvent again.

corntrollio says

Not true. Depositors are covered by FDIC. It's silly to say that depositors got bailed out. Shareholders, incompetent management, and bondholders got bailed out, as did counterparties and things like that.

hear, hear...

it is really silly to write or think otherwise. If case of a bank failure FDIC would cover only depositors (with Fed printing press as lender of last resort), but here we have many more classes bailed out, including those who had direct or indirect control over a bank actions that lead to a failure (management, stock- and bond-holders).

lexa says

what do you mean under "misquoted me"? I pressed "quote" button and as far as I can see your quote is correct.
major shareholder can direct CEO what to do and how to do it...if CEO fails act as told, it picks another person, direct him just the same and make him new CEO.
if you realize that, then then you support my argument and F&F serve at pleasure of WH, at least till they're solvent again.

You now fixed the quoting. Before you had omitted a line of my post, so it sounded nonsensical. Why are you being disingenuous about this? You can't even act in good faith about a typo!

They don't serve at the pleasure of the White House simply because the White House appoints the CEO. The Board of Directors and the CEO must still act in the interest of the corporation if there are 21.1% minority shareholders. Minority shareholders could sue for oppression if the majority shareholder is unfairly benefited or if the minority is unfairly hurt. This is a matter of corporate law.

What is weird about Fannie and Freddie is that they are federally chartered corporations (as opposed to, say incorporated under Delaware law). Under most states' corporate law (which would likely influence the law applied to Fannie/Freddie), if the CEO or Board did something that wasn't in the interest of the corporation, they could still be sued for breach of fiduciary duty. The CEO and Board cannot just do what the White House says -- they cannot do something that's not in the interest of the corporation.

In addition, Fannie and Freddie are limited by what Congress says they can do.

tatupu70 says

Wrong. The bank owners got bailed out. Ordinary citizens are covered by FDIC.

You mean "Account Holders" are covered up to the limit of 250K. What does that say about individuals with over the limit or the many companies that keep their cash and checking accounts to pay employees and vendors. What happens to vendors that dont get paid ? Where do you think employers like GE, HP or many others keep their checking ?

FDIC already hit bottom from the financial disaster.. Trying to pay out the top Fortune 500 company like GE, HP, Exxon, etc etc bank balances which is in the BILLIONS-TRILLIONS would wipe out FDIC several times over. The whole global economy would have come to a halt. The "deep abyss" we heard about.

"Any person or entity can have FDIC insurance coverage in an insured bank. A person does not have to be a U.S. citizen or resident to have his or her deposits insured by the FDIC."

p>hear, hear...

I will repeat...

Where do you think employers like GE, HP or many others keep their checking ?

Why do you think the stock market with all the industries tanked in late 2008 ? Except for keeping their cash in the bank they had very little to do with the Banks.

opps .. sorry GE we really dont have your demand checking account available to pay your employees and vendors. NSF.

thomas.wong1986 says

You mean "Account Holders" are covered up to the limit of 250K. What does that say about individuals with over the limit or the many companies that keep their cash and checking accounts to pay employees and vendors

Yes, of course. I can think of a few terms for people who store more than $250K in a savings account at one bank. Same for companies that store that much in a checking acct. You're closer to it than I, but I would assume the finance guys are smart enough to transfer only as much as needed to checking accts to pay the bills. No need to keep >$250K in there for no reason...

thomas.wong1986 says

Why do you think the stock market with all the industries tanked in late 2008 ? Except for keeping their cash in the bank they had very little to do with the Banks.

It wasn't the fear that they wouldn't get their savings or checking accts. It was that they wouldn't have access to their short term loans used to pay employees and bills. The revolving credit market dried up.

You should really know this Thomas.

Apple computers...

$ 3 billion divided by 90 days ( one quarter )

$33 MILLION A DAY to pay employees and vendors, like so many others IBM, Exxon, etc etc etc. !

tatupu70 says

It was that they wouldn't have access to their short term loans used to pay employees and bills.

Since who in hell uses short term loans to pay employees and vendors ?

WOW! your anti corporate BS is just beyond any reason.
That is the most insane thing you have stated to date.

corntrollio says

You now fixed the quoting. Before you had omitted a line of my post, so it sounded nonsensical. Why are you being disingenuous about this? You can't even act in good faith about a typo!

i did no such thing, all posts have timestampts, when one edits it, timestamp updates...

now, which post do you accuse me of editing and when?

Zlxr says

If the Banks would go back to boring and...

Sure it would equally be great if buyers went back to being rational consumers instead of overbidding and inflating home prices, double digit well above inflation and incomes. year over year.

But they dug themself a deep grave and took everyone else with them.

Zlxr says

Thomas - according to Catherine Austin Fitts at www.solari.com - $8 trillion would have paid off all the mortgages in this country. But we gave/loaned the Banks $12 trillion.

Yours, mine and everyone elses $8T. Lets pass the buck to someone else who didnt participate and knew better.

thomas.wong1986 says

Since who in hell uses short term loans to pay employees and vendors ?

Uh, almost all companies? Here's a link for you Thomas:

http://2008financialcrisis.umwblogs.org/analysis/the-credit-crisis/

"Since bills come due at different times than revenues are received, credit is critical for the functioning of nearly every business, from Mom and Pop grocery stores, to Fortune 500 corporations. As a consequence, businesses need “working capital,” sometimes savings but more often credit"

thanks for the input all.

Now, a new issue:
I got a call from the tax assessors office to see if I had completed the addition that I pulled a permit for. I have, of course, but he was just making sure.

So, he explained that he was having to reassess my house since I bought it.
I paid 134.5K.
After all repairs and the addition I had a lender appraisal for a refi come in at 238K.
The tax assessors paper came yesterday and it has me assessed at 265K.

Now, what do I do? I am pretty sure my inpound account will not cover an assessment of that amount. ANd with my loan being bounced around, I am worried that my impound might get F-ed up (any reason for concern here?).

Any how, should I share the lender appraisal with the County and use that to challenge the tax assessment, or is that a wasted effort? ANy advice or input would be great. Thanks.

All construction contractors I know of, personally, use a revolving credit line to cover weekly exspenses too. It is becasue they go into debt against the completed job as they go, and payment always comes well after the job is complete. And those lines of credit were cut, or froze and called due, as the crap hit the fan, and that took out many many contractors and they went BR. A snowball effect as generals went bad against subs and subs went bad against suppliers and suppliers went bad against wholesalers and wholesalers went bad against whoever they go bad against.

It is a great day today. I called the controller tax person, found out that my assessment is based on sales price of 134.5K, and the 260 was the old amount from before the forclosure. So, the world is a much better place today, birds are chirping, and the lamb lays with the lion. lol

Thanks.

lexa says

i did no such thing, all posts have timestampts, when one edits it, timestamp updates...

No, it doesn't update the timestamp. You know what you edited and could have just been honest about it. :)

It previously said:

corntrollio says

Fannie and Freddie do not serve the White House, but they are under conservatorship of FHFA, so they can by other corporation, the majority shareholder can dictate what happens to some extent.

you cut out a line -- but you now fixed it to what I actually said.

thomas.wong1986 says

You mean "Account Holders" are covered up to the limit of 250K. What does that say about individuals with over the limit

Who are these stupid people who are sophisticated enough to have this amount of cash in an account but too unsophisticated to figure out how to make sure all their money is FDIC insured? :) Banks make this easy for you.

thomas.wong1986 says

Trying to pay out the top Fortune 500 company like GE, HP, Exxon, etc etc bank balances which is in the BILLIONS-TRILLIONS would wipe out FDIC several times over. The whole global economy would have come to a halt. The "deep abyss" we heard about.

GE can negotiate terms with its banks and negotiate insurance too. This wouldn't be FDIC-covered anyway.

thomas.wong1986 says

Why do you think the stock market with all the industries tanked in late 2008 ? Except for keeping their cash in the bank they had very little to do with the Banks.
opps .. sorry GE we really dont have your demand checking account available to pay your employees and vendors. NSF.

As tatupu said, this had nothing to do with what you're talking about. This had to do with credit (including commercial paper, which is why money market funds got hit), not funds availability. This is well-documented, so it's a strange and uninformed argument for you to make.