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Can't the realtor get His/Her license taken away for not submitting an offer for the Orig client.
It has to be proven that they didn't. Being a short sale the offer would have to be submitted to the bank. Getting a bank to give you that answer would be difficult.
PockyClipsNow
2011 Dec 1, 8:01am
stupid buyers. you gotta use the listing agent or they will flush your offer half the time.
The Prices listed on these short sales are comparible to Standard sale prices in the last couple of months... Sick and tired looking for good deals.
toothfairy
2011 Dec 1, 9:21am
stupid buyers. you gotta use the listing agent or they will flush your offer half the time.
Realtors getting more tricky these days.
They did use the listing agent but the listing agent bought the short sale and resold it to them at a higher price.
PockyClipsNow
2011 Dec 1, 9:27am
HAHA that is awsome. good for the listing agent. AND he gets to double dip commish + flip the short sale for profit. There isnt even a word for this yet! lol. sweeet.
every now and then I hear about a 'new' type of mortgage fraud (which is only a reaction to banks getting sloppy/lowering lending standards).
My fave is 'shotgunning' which supposublby the russian mafia started in a big way during h.bubble - you buy a house, then 6 mos later take 12 HELOC all to close on SAME DAY, most of the loans go thru, then leave town and change name.
I really think short sale should be STOPPED completely. The banks have zero incentive to get top $ since dumb taxpayer is on the hook. Of course the same is true with REO resales....
bubblesitter
2011 Dec 1, 12:37pm
Well,sheepish people want to buy cuz it is fed in their brain from the birth that RE is the best investment - Realtors will survive just because of this people. :)
"When she and her husband got to the closing table in late June, they found out in passing from their attorney that the investor had purchased the house for $160,000 in cash. She says at first she didn’t trust her ears – she had the lawyer repeat it and she wrote the amount down."
"“We were shocked,†An said."
Not that unusual even for non-short sales over the past 10 years. People were bidding 20-30% year over year, eventually doubling and tripling prices in a few short years.
The problem is total lack of transparency in price history and bidding process. But Demos in Congress is chasing Banks to notice all this.
It would be great had we had some requirements that prior history of homes over 10-15 years was disclosed to buyers before they made the bids. Plus have all bids open with all parties present during the process. True open market !
Cook County resident
2011 Dec 2, 6:36am
The problem is total lack of transparency in price history and bidding process. But Demos in Congress is chasing Banks to notice all this.
The problem is that the buyers thought the realtor was trustworthy.
The bank had the same problem, although they ought not use naiveté as an excuse.
Cook County resident
2011 Dec 2, 6:42am
HAHA that is awsome. good for the listing agent. AND he gets to double dip commish + flip the short sale for profit. There isnt even a word for this yet! lol. sweeet.
Flopping?
PockyClipsNow
2011 Dec 2, 7:12am
I dont see how the listing agent did anything wrong.
The bank agreed to sell it to him at a price they agreed to.
The next buyer agreed to buy it from him at a price they agreed to.
The 'loanowner' could care less what happens as he is undawata and wont get paid no matter what. (why does anyone do a short sale? to generate a commission!)
I suppose the bank might complain that 'they coulda got a better price' why the HELL do they allow the underwater loanowners to choose thier cousin vinny as the realtor?!? BANKS are not ignorant this is thier business.
The truth is if the banks were to ramp up staffing to analyze every short sell they would get more $ for them BUT ACTUALLY LOSE EVEN MORE money since they are reimbursed 100% by the GSE who insures the loan. They make same $ selling home for $1 as if they sold it for 400k. THUS for banks to maximize income they are playing the skeleton crew game and taking everyone at thier word - since that saves them the most money.
Clearly the GSE is losing money but taxpayers are such a large group of people they are hopelessly disorganized. Its called looting I suppose. Not exactly a societal collapse - hell its creating jobs....for realtors....lol
You people who vote for larger government - this is what it looks like! nice!
Remember for banks to maximize profits they just take the first complete offer they get and move on to next file - all those losses are paid by taxpayers.
I dont see how the listing agent did anything wrong.
The bank agreed to sell it to him at a price they agreed to.
The next buyer agreed to buy it from him at a price they agreed to.
Really? Even when the "investor"/scammer and the realtor both work in the same office and likely colluded on the deal? Even when the couple submitted an offer and never received a response from the bankster? Even when the realtor worked in the same office and told them to increase their offer to the investor (instead of to the bank?)? It's absolutely implausible that there was no bad act by the realtor here. At minimum, the realtor should have advised the client that the price they were paying was too high and told them to bid much lower. Second, it doesn't appear that the realtor even submitted the offer on their behalf.
What likely happened is that the realtor told his/her colleague that their patsy client was bidding way too high on a short sale, so the colleague should bid lower and then sell to these chumps. I would sue the shit out of this realtor, but I would also not be stupid enough to fall for this "investor" BS. If there some intermediary between you and the bank, you know some shady stuff is going on.
I have noticed that certain realtors pull this scam on a regular basis. There was one realtor who had flipped 5 houses with very short intervals, probably because they convinced someone of a lower market value. This realtor never did anything to improve the house and sold it for a lot more not so far after the first sale.
PockyClipsNow
2011 Dec 2, 8:12am
Why doesnt the bank USE THIER OWN REALTOR?!?!
Because that would cause a loss(have to staff up to hire and monitor realtors) - the taxpayers are eating 100% of the loss on a SS so they simply take first highest offer which invites these games.
Sooooooo the real outrage goes back a level and its this: taxpayers should not be guaranteeing all mortgages in the US!!
But the bigGov democrat approach is to staff up government employees to monitor every deal. haha good luck. We all know if the bank owned thier own paper, this crap woudnt happen. But that world is gone forever better get used to big gov and how to live in it (think CCCP corruption, get a freind on the inside, etc)
Cook County resident
2011 Dec 2, 11:20am
I dont see how the listing agent did anything wrong.
The agent lied to the buyers with that "...best and highest offer and to do so quickly, because there was competition for the property..." crap when their current offer was more than good enough, That isn't an explicit lie, but it is an implicit one and it's wrong.
As far as cheating the bank/GSE, that's wrong too, and it has been found to be illegal.
More from the article:
"If short sale flips are done the wrong way, they can get a real estate agent and an investor in legal hot water. In Connecticut, a real estate agent and an investor, who was also a real estate agent, were convicted of bank fraud last year for a short sale flip. They put in a low offer to the bank that held the mortgage, while at the same time concealing that there was a higher offer for the property."
"The bank approved the short sale at the low amount, and then the investor turned around and resold it for the higher amount. He shared the profits with the real estate agent. Both pleaded guilty to one count of bank fraud."
A different realtor with the same agency says he avoids those problems with option contracts.
Freddie Mac, at least, is aware of the option dodge and actually seems to give a damn:
"“Freddie Mac considers it to be a deceptive business practice that deliberately omits crucial data to the short sale lender,†Cooke said. “Omission of higher offers causes short sale lenders to approve transactions without all the facts and we take a higher loss than we should.â€"
"So last year, Freddie Mac started requiring banks servicing its loans to include forms that everyone involved with short sales, including Realtors, has to sign. They must attest that there are no hidden deals and that the sale is an arm’s length transaction. Many banks have now followed suit. Some require that the buyer hold the property for 30 days or even 90 days before reselling it."
"“The banks got wise, got more restrictive with their language and cut this off,†said Greg Braun, a real estate attorney in Chicago."
Cook County resident
2011 Dec 2, 11:26am
Why doesnt the bank USE THIER OWN REALTOR?!?!
Working on the same payroll? Even banksters find realtors to be a bad influence.
Malkovich
2011 Dec 3, 11:01am
If this happened to me... it would be very difficult for me to suppress the urge to physically harm the used-house salesman that fucked me like that.
It's bad enough when we are getting fucked by the gov't, big business, banks, etc. but to be fucked by someone I actually met who supposed to be my advocate... wow...
I suppose that is why back in 2004 when I was working with a realtards who were saying "submit your best, highest offer, blah blah" I said "F-this" and stuck to renting.
These crooked realtards should be strapped to a chair and have their fingernails ripped out with pliers.
TechGromit
2011 Dec 5, 2:43am
Nice little scam they got going there. They know they have buyers for the house, so there virtually no risk for them. They buy low and sell high, the American way.
toothfairy
2011 Dec 5, 4:07am
I keep hearing that short sales go for an average of 20% below market price. It's no surprise that someone has found a way to claim that 20%. I'd imagine very few SS can be bought at a discount by average buyers these days.
TechGromit
2011 Dec 12, 2:13am
Maybe the ultimate solution here is For-Sale-By-Owner Short Sale. In states where the homeowner could be on the hook for the difference between the sold price and original mortgage amount, there is incentive to get the highest price for the house. Perhaps even kick back 3% of the sale price commission to the homeowner. This way the Bank minimize there losses and the homeowner has incentive to sell the house for the best possible price.
"An says they were told if they were still interested, that they should put in their best and highest offer and to do so quickly, because there was competition for the property and the investor wanted to get it done fast."
"“A lot of rushing, a lot of rushing, and so we went with $285,000,” An said."
"Their offer was accepted. But An still didn't know what the investor had paid for the property – it hadn't yet been posted on the Cook County Recorder of Deeds web site."
"When she and her husband got to the closing table in late June, they found out in passing from their attorney that the investor had purchased the house for $160,000 in cash. She says at first she didn't trust her ears – she had the lawyer repeat it and she wrote the amount down."
"“We were shocked,” An said."
http://www.wbez.org/story/venture-flipping-houses-post-bubble-world-94309
"Because the Realtor and investor work in the same office, it seems like they can get first crack at these properties. And then the other question is: Who is the Realtor really working for if the investor is a coworker? Is the Realtor trying to get the best deal for the homeowner or the investor?"
"The spokesman, Mark Rodgers, told me that the bank wasn't aware of a higher offer and their policy is not to accept a cash offer instead of a higher financed offer. So that deepened the mystery – why was the bank not told of An's offer?"
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