patrick.net

Whats the issue you see here ?

From the above article...

An atheist, Ahlquist sued the city of Cranston, R.I., over a banner hanging in the auditorium of her high school, Cranston High School West. Printed on the banner, a longtime feature at the school, is a prayer to "Our Heavenly Father."

In January, a federal judge ordered the banner removed. The school board is expected to decide Thursday whether to appeal.

The ruling has prompted an angry backlash from residents. Ahlquist has received death threats and has even been criticized by her own state representative, Peter Palumbo.

"What an evil little thing. Poor thing," he told local talk radio station WPRO. "And it's not her fault. She's being ... trained to be like that."

The prayer, which opens with "Our Heavenly Father," urges students to work hard, be good people and achieve in sports. It ends with "Amen."

"It's stupid," says cheerleading coach Janine Hansen, a recent graduate of the school. "You have your opinions — cool, keep them to yourself. It's four words in the whole prayer — four words. Like, stupid."

The school board had the option of removing the four words, but decided not to. Many Cranston residents protested the idea of changing what has been part of the high school since the early '60s. For now, the school has covered the banner with plywood and a school flag.

Constitution of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations

PREAMBLE

We, the people of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and to transmit the same, unimpaired, to succeeding generations, do ordain and establish this Constitution of government.

http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/RiConstitution/ConstFull.html

Yep, there are lots of violations of the First Amendment of the Federal Constitution. None of them are good.

America is not a theocracy. If you want to live in a theocracy, there are plenty to choose from in the Middle East.

thomas.wong1986 says

Whats the issue you see here ?

A 16 year old girl is getting death threats and you don't see the issue?

Personally, I don't really give a damn what myths stupid people want to believe, but they have no place in any taxpayer funded institution.

I stand with the girl. Christianty was invented. For one purpose only pacification of people. People. That are the people that now run things were afraid of. To even further. They wanted a people that would obey THEM. See by throwing everyone they could under the wheels of HELL. They live in absloute fear of the future. Where their reward HEAVEN waits.

If you have any sense. You will understand that the ones involved even decendants of the inventors of christianity. KNOW christianity is a bullshit story. Knowing this without fear. They can take a very pliable society. That they make sure is filled with church's, bibles. Do what they want with the followers of christianity with little trouble.

You will see one recurring theme in that NT. Wait till the end. Wait patiently, endure. The people that are rich will get theirs in the end. The rich that take advantage of you will get theirs in the end. Turn the other cheek (no one does for long.) If they take your coat give them your pants. Pay everything you owe. All authority is from God. Obey them that have the charge over you. Be meek. Be humble. Be kind. Be loving. Tenderhearted. Wait patiently until the day of the Lord. Hold fast in your faith. Vengence is Gods he will repay, fuck don't ever take vengence. Don't worry about what you will drink, eat or wear. Work quietly minding your own business. If you want anything ask God. Then in the end God shows up and wipes out all the bastards that wrote the story in the first place.

The girl isn't a victim. Shes just not stupid. Thats all. She probably sits at home laughing her ass of at suckers that are stupid enough to get sucked into a half well done bullshit story. While the users that prepetuate the bullshit story run off with everything of everyone that believes the bullshit story has. While they serve meekly.

Thats the thing about being pacified. You can see very, very clearly in Iraq. That Americas dire enemies the Iranians have a pipeline direct to their refinery from Iraq. The other dire enemies China pumping oil in Iraq. (Californians know clearly that is bullshit) Ones that live near a port anyway. Russia Lukov oil in Iraq pumping oil, same deal. While they all stablize or try to stablize the region. Stablize as they call it.

The answer to all of this, being the so called govt. of Iraq is clearly puppeted. Why the fuck our are so-called enemies in there? They ALL have Iraq roped and tied and they are pumping gaboodles of oil out of it. They are our allies is more like the truth of it. They are gaming the stupid (in all countries) too believe it. See the paragraph after the following one.

More cargo and containers move through the Port of Long Beach than any other United States Port. You think China is swift? Go there and see what they bring in from Kasikstan. Think that started yesterday? Russia and the United States little joke on you. It just doesn't say Russia on the label. Thats the short side. The long side. When the "wall" came down manufacturing and sales into eastern europe didn't. Most everything they get in there is from Russia. A properly puppeted government can save you a fortune in military cost. They are right of course. It takes a lot to keep a standing army in another country. Not to mention its a pain in the ass. Walked out without a shot. It was a Papal miricle. I am in awe of him. Yes and that sneaky Gorbachov. We just knew he was for us.

Pacification quiets a people down. Hey yes there is fear. But we will take care of everything. Nothing ever happens of course. Your just a sucker for those that pretend to be in charge (All authority is from God - Bullshit). Your saying yes, you handle it. We don't want any trouble. The three little pigs clearly have the world stepin' and a fetchin'. Christianty for the christians with an ending fear. World annihilation of man for the rest of us. It might occur to you the 3 little pigs never went to war with one another. They always have each others backs.

I find it interesting that Dan (a hyper religious atheist zealot ), has as his headline "Christians send death threats." And says "So where's all that "love thy neighbor" crap?"

I wonder what percentage of the Christians in the community sent death threats or approved of them ?

Not that it's okay, if it was 1/7 of one percent. IT's just interesting,... the emotion that people like Dan invest in their religion. It's the same thing that he's so critical of.

To me this is more or less anti secularist propaganda.

I have a problem with religion influencing curriculum, or kids being forced to pray. But allowing a banner on the wall, that has a positive message (yes religious), that was put there probably by some Christian club or other local group back in the 60s?

What ever happened to tolerance ?

Yes there should be tolerance for the atheist girl that wants the banner down. But if some super high majority (say over 95%) of the community doesn't have a problem with the banner, then it a shame that it has to come down by law,even if the ruling is understandable. And therefore the perception of the girl as sort of a jerk, isn't really surprising at all.

Dan8267 says

the local Christians threaten to kill her forcing the local police to escort the girl during school.

Right. All of the Christians threatened to kill her, not just a few crackpots.

I don't see what the big deal is. That "prayer" is so generic that any Monotheist could agree with it. "Heavenly Father" could mean the god of Mormonism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, or any monothistic religion. The prayer doesn't mention any specifically Christian doctrine.

Still, I can't help but agree that having a prayer banner in a public school is inviting "establishment clause" issues.

Dan8267 says

America is not a theocracy. If you want to live in a theocracy, there are plenty to choose from in the Middle East.

Right, a generic prayer to a generic monotheistic diety in a public school makes America a theocracy. Please.

Make sure the school doesn't show the Star Wars movies, since those movies envoke "the force."

I think that we as good people. Like most everyday people. Struggle with the situations thrown at us. Perpatrated on us. It shows that we aren't stupid. Especially the people on this board for the most part. Thats why I hang here.

The only "wrong" is what is done by people that spew fear and other things ment to keep us in line everyday. Deal is you can go anywhere and there is never any danger. Thats the reality of it. Anyone able to socialize with anyone in any community in a city knows that.

Sit still. While they "steal" and take everything not nailed down. Keeping you at work for very little.

Its not nessesarly about Amagedon. Nor is it about religion. Nope whats behind it is stealing. The people that "work" all of this love to steal. Everything the people on the streets with signs are screaming about is stealing. They got screwed. Jobs taken. Lost everything they had. That they so loyally worked for.

Division is one more thing that keeps you from getting at those people. The earth was ment for everyone for the most part. Order, "religion", government of the division of people works really well for them. Ie: if your fighting each other. Well heck I'll just go on an have a good day. While I leave watching the dust fly in the air from the fight. The division is manufactured every single day. Be aware of it.

My question is: If they "did not" bring up the divisions every single fucking minute of every day. Would not everyone be walking down the sidewalk side by side talking. With no differences?

thomas.wong1986 says

PREAMBLE

Has no legal force.
thomas.wong1986 says

The school board had the option of removing the four words, but decided not to. Many Cranston residents protested the idea of changing what has been part of the high school since the early '60s. For now, the school has covered the banner with plywood and a school flag.

You want religious training? Send your kinds to Sunday (or Saturday) Brainwashing. My tax dollars shouldn't go to worshipping the invisible man in the sky. People are free to be stupid with their own money,on their own time.
thomas.wong1986 says

"What an evil little thing. Poor thing," he told local talk radio station WPRO. "And it's not her fault. She's being ... trained to be like that."

What an ass-turd politician. But I repeat myself. If it was a stained glass window from 1490 I could see it being kept as a historical/cultural item. 1962 is hardly an ancient fixture of cultural value, being well within the lifetime of a good chunk of the population. You could make the same argument for the lazy susan sitting on top of the cabinet in the home ec classroom.

wthrfrk80 says

Right, a generic prayer to a generic monotheistic diety in a public school makes America a theocracy. Please.

What if you worship the Earth Mother? Or are a Hindu? Or Taoist? Or Buddhist?

wthrfrk80 says

Make sure the school doesn't show the Star Wars movies, since those movies envoke "the force."

A fictional impersonal source of power, like Magic or "Qi" Kung Fu/Ninja leaping. If there was a banner encouraging kids to "Use the Force and Meditate, and give thanks to Yoda in order to do well in school", that would be something else.

thunderlips11 says

A fictional impersonal source of power, like Magic or "Qi" Kung Fu/Ninja leaping. If there was a banner encouraging kids to "Use the Force and Meditate, and give thanks to Yoda in order to do well in school", that would be something else.

Isn't that what most religion boils down to?

Kevin says

thomas.wong1986 says

Whats the issue you see here ?

A 16 year old girl is getting death threats and you don't see the issue?

And that's a large part of the problem. If a Muslim made a death threat against a Christian, they would all be up in arms.

marcus says

I wonder what percentage of the Christians in the community sent death threats or approved of them ?

Sent: definitely a small percentage of the community.
Approved: definitely a large percentage of the community based on the community's treatment towards the girl.

There's a lot of hate and xenophobia in Christianity even today. All outsiders are considered threats. The only reason the Christians in America aren't as violent as the Muslims in the Middle East is that they can't get away with it in America. Heck, Muslims in America are less violent than Christians in America.

wthrfrk80 says

Right. All of the Christians threatened to kill her, not just a few crackpots.

That's a Straw Man argument. I'm not arguing that all the Christians threatened to kill her. I'm arguing that religion has caused a community to attack an innocent girl, who is absolutely correct about the law, and a few even went as far as to make death threats, which is a very serious issue. For religion to drive even a few people to do these things shows how powerful a force for evil religion is. And it's not just other people's religions.

The bottom line is that no defender of religion can deny the facts of these articles. So they try to sweep the issue under the rug. But that's not right either. There's a lesson to be learned here, and it's "the religious are not tolerant of others and often become violent when their power is threatened". The only way to protect society from religious crazies is to take away the power of religion all together. Religion causes people to do bad things, and this incident along with countless others proves it.

I have yet to hear of a single incident in which a community of atheists have threatened or tried to punish a person for being a monotheist.

wthrfrk80 says

Dan8267 says

America is not a theocracy. If you want to live in a theocracy, there are plenty to choose from in the Middle East.

Right, a generic prayer to a generic monotheistic diety in a public school makes America a theocracy. Please.

Another Straw Man argument. My comment clearly was directly responding to your implied argument that the Constitution of the State of Rhode Island makes Christianity or monotheism a state-sponsored religion. I stand by my argument that you are incorrect in suggesting this conclusion.

marcus says

And therefore the perception of the girl as sort of a jerk, isn't really surprising at all.

And if it had been an Islamic banner? Or a Hindu banner? Or an atheist banner? Or a Goatse banner? Or god forbid, a Wiccan witchcraft banner? In this country, we are all equal under law, like it or not. To selectively enforce a law only against certain groups (blacks, Hispanics, atheists, Muslims) is a form of bigotry and discrimination and as such violates the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

The only jerks are the ones who said bad things about the girl or threatened her.

wthrfrk80 says

Make sure the school doesn't show the Star Wars movies, since those movies envoke "the force."

The school can put up a prayer banner, when I can put up banners showing how Jesus was no god and all the myths about him are rip-offs from older myths, and when I as Valedictorian can give a speech about why there is no god and all religions are frauds. It ain't freedom of speech if the majority gets to control what can be said.

thunderlips11 says

You want religious training? Send your kinds to Sunday (or Saturday) Brainwashing. My tax dollars shouldn't go to worshipping the invisible man in the sky. People are free to be stupid with their own money,on their own time.

Absolutely, this school's charter should be revoked on account of this. Then let the religious put their money where their mouths are.

Dan8267 says

The only reason the Christians in America aren't as violent as the Muslims in the Middle East is that they can't get away with it in America. Heck, Muslims in America are less violent than Christians in America.

Therefore being a Christaian nation means we are much much more civilized nation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061842/Mohammad-Shafia-murdered-daughter-honour-killing-said-hed-again.html

'I would do it again 100 times': Muslim father 'murdered his THREE daughters in honour killing for dating wrong boys'
Mohammad Shafia 'spoke to second wife about "treacherous" daughters'

Both standing trial in Ontario with son, charged with first degree murder
Gruesome video footage of submerged car where they were found is shown

Afghani father felt 'ashamed' that eldest daughter had married Pakistani boy Shafia, 58, had seven children in total with wife Tooba Yahya, 41

Dan8267 says

The only way to protect society from religious crazies is to take away the power of religion all together. Religion causes people to do bad things, and this incident along with countless others proves it.

How do you propose to do that? People like religion. Almost as much as they like porn.

Dan8267 says

I'm not arguing that all the Christians threatened to kill her.

Then your headline should have read, "a few Christians send death threats to a 16 year old girl"

http://www.nIJlJkJE7go

Want my opinion?