patrick.net

Alright; yet still, the problem is not seen truly for what it's cause and reasons are when you make the determining factor "a person's ethnicity". Because truth is, the skin color is not what makes someone prone to picking up a gun. It is a complex general social demographic and cultural condition involving many unfair and unjust factors leading to even their own conditioning in thinking that "that" is their life's predicament, of which blacks are actually the victims of, and not the other way around. I mean, I can see where the statistics are alarming, and in that, helpful in drawing our attention to a lot of things we may not be thinking of or even considering. But, if you want to speak of resolution, healing and solving the matter, then it is the social civil and cultural infrastructure and distribution of all resources including education and types of jobs that are given to one race as opposed to given to another race where we need to focus on.

CL says

How many millionaire African-Americans have murdered a poor white person

patrick regini says

Because truth is, the skin color is not what makes someone prone to picking up a gun.

Skin color is only 1 obvious difference between the races. There are virtually countless other physical differences. Intelligence is one of these differences.

patrick regini says

But, if you want to speak of resolution, healing and solving the matter, then it is the social civil and cultural infrastructure and distribution of all resources including education and types of jobs that are given to one race as opposed to given to another race where we need to focus on.

Blacks are given the exact same educational opportunities as whites in the US. It is the black genetic lack of intelligence that distances blacks from whites in school. It costs the American taxpayer trillions of dollars to pretend that blacks are capable of the same things as whites.

Jobs are not "given", they are earned through a combination of past performance, current ability and future potential.

The solution to the matter is not wasting money on trying to make unequal things equal. Once we deal with reality and stop pretending, we will be able to use resource appropriately and fairly.

foxmannumber1 says

It costs the American taxpayer trillions of dollars to pretend that blacks are
capable of the same things as whites.

Ouch it must hurt like crazy to have Obama in the White House. Must suck to be you. Carry on .

Now on the topic, yes blacks do have a higher rate of crime than any other race-in this country at this period of time. It wasn't so before-because they were treated as property and were owned by other people. But yes in current conditions, there is a lot of crime. I don't know if there are any studies done to understand why- scientific ones and not the rantings of the bigots who seem determined to turn any meaningful dialogue about race into something else.

lostand confused says

It wasn't so before-because they were treated as property and were owned by other people.

No American black alive today was ever a slave. Very, very few blacks alive today ever met a former slave.

John Bailo says

Blacks committed 13% of white homicides

447/3,327

Whites committed 8% of black homicides

218/2720

Add in the 3rd major group of homicide offenders in that list, hispanics/latinos. This will be very hard to do, as they are labeled "white" in many major murder statistics.

If the truth came out about how the super vast majority of crime was committed by blacks and hispanics/latinos when compared to white people then white people would have to do something about it. That is the last thing the liberal government wants.

foxmannumber1 says

No American black alive today was ever a slave. Very, very few blacks alive
today ever met a former slave.

Dear Lord....

Blacks have had 3-4 generations of equality in LBJ's great society. Equal funding/access in education and equal opportunity in employment. Thanks to AA, more than equal in some cases.

Blacks still lag behind whites in all desirable aspects of a modern society. Some think the old excuse of white racism is losing validity.

foxmannumber1 says

Some think the old excuse of white racism is losing validity.

Except you, nobody has brought whites are racist in this discussion. Now you are racist-but that has nothing to with which race you belong to.

lostand confused says

Now you are racist

I consider myself a race realist.

John Bailo says

Blacks committed 13% of white homicides

447/3,327

Whites committed 8% of black homicides

218/2720

It is only less than twice as likely that a white person will be killed by a black as a black will be killed by a white. From the perspective of the victim, isn't that the only statistic that matters?

5% of Americans are atheists. 0.209% of the US prison population are atheists. That's discrepancy is a factor of 24.

77% of Americans are Christians. Christians make up 79.10% of prison population

Christians are over 24 times as likely to commit a crime than an atheist. Much more so if you factor in court prejudices in favor of Christians and against atheists.

From the perspective of the victim, isn't that the only statistic that matters?

To call yourself a Christian and actually act like the idealized character are 2 very different things. Many criminals find religion while spending all of their time behind bars as a coping mechanism.

All religions are false. Faith in their fairy tales is a sign of being weak minded.

zzyzzx says

CL says

How many millionaire African-Americans have murdered a poor white person

She wasn't poor. But I'll give you one.

Now, how is it that class doesn't matter? I bet there are poor white meth-heads who would ransack a wealthy black man's home, and perhaps kill Dr. Huxtable to get their drugs.

Add into the mix the recidivism rate, and the much higher rate for prosecution and incarceration, the unequal sentencing for drug crimes and on and on, and you have a recipe for an almost permanent underclass.

It became convenient to yell "racism" in this country because there is a benefit to gain from it and nothing to lose. So way too many have learned that it's a good way to get some freebies out of politicians.

It's stupid really, we should be past the race card, race shouldn't matter. But people still find ways to reverse discrimination for personal benefit, selfishness and greed is the name of the game.

FortWayne says

It became convenient to yell "racism" in this country because there is a benefit to gain from it and nothing to lose

In my lifetime, blacks have been lynched, and have committed no crime other than being born black. Is there nothing to gain by pointing out racism where racism exists?

Should the lynchee have just accepted his or her fate?

America has many racists, largely conservatives who are afraid that minorities might just reveal that the white community is not genetically superior to any ethnicity, despite Fox's protestations.

The last thing most racists want to openly acknowledge is that they have institutional advantage. Because, goddamn it, I earned all that I have!

thomaswong.1986 says

curious2 says

It would be very interesting to compare gun violence statistics by race today with statistics from the prohibition era - I suspect they would look quite different.

The Italian mafia was much smaller and very exclusive.. with associates at most 5000 members per family. With 5 major families that would be around 25,000 ... thats why they were taken down in a few decades. All but gone today..

Compared to todays US street gangs ..that would be well over 800,000 ... external links that would grow well over 1 million count organization and growing.

As I am sure you know the murder rate for the past couple of years is at a 50 year low. Also, the murder rate during prohibition was close to double what the murder rate has been sense the year 2000.

Are you telling me that 25,000 organized white people cause almost twice the murder and mayhem than 1,000,000 street gang members?

CL says

In my lifetime, blacks have been lynched, and have committed no crime other than being born black. Is there nothing to gain by pointing out racism where racism exists?

Should the lynchee have just accepted his or her fate?

Go back to 1865 and complain about lynching then. I'll even give you credit for talking about racism in the mid 70's. Not in 2013 though, time to move on.

FortWayne says

CL says

In my lifetime, blacks have been lynched, and have committed no crime other than being born black. Is there nothing to gain by pointing out racism where racism exists?

Should the lynchee have just accepted his or her fate?

Go back to 1865 and complain about lynching then. I'll even give you credit for talking about racism in the mid 70's. Not in 2013 though, time to move on.

Putting aside the fact that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he had been white, and in this very thread foxman should give you reason to believe racism is alive and well in the US...

Sure, lynching is not something that happens today, but unfortunately for James Craig Anderson people are still being killed because they are black (or in Oak Creek, Wisconsin killed for being Sikh) but in this century the method of execution is typically vehicular, dragged or hit.

Is racism as bad as it was in the 70's? No.

Is racism non-existent in 2013? No.

To put things into perspective the US is probably one of the least racist countries in the world today, but we still have a long way to go before race is a relative non-issue. Pretending that we live a a colorblind society where blacks have all the same opportunity as whites is a step in the wrong direction.

As long as racism is still a prevalent force in the US, yes the racism "card" is still going to be played. While the "card" will sometimes get misapplied and overused, there is still enough racism to go around where it gets played in the "correct" circumstances.

CL says

In my lifetime, blacks have been lynched, and have committed no crime other than being born black. Is there nothing to gain by pointing out racism where racism exists?

This is more a problem to be solved by a guy wearing Lycra and a cape, than a policy failing of our Government and the Majority of the people.

Politicizing a few acts of violence and demonizing All WHITE people because we've got a black president, seems... Well just like I said.

I'm still waiting for those Black men that stripped a white kid nekkid, and whipped him because the boy's father owed them $20 dollars, that just happened last week, to be charged with "Hate Crimes" and called racist. If that can't happen then shut the fuck all ready. We get it, "Racisim" is just a one way street, so the Liberals can push their agenda.

http://newsone.com/2223453/newark-man-forced-to-strip-naked-20-debt/

FortWayne says

I'll even give you credit for talking about racism in the mid 70's. Not in 2013 though, time to move on.

We're not talking about racism, just another white guy playing "Get Whitey", nothing to see here move on.

CaptainShuddup says

I'm still waiting for those Black men that stripped a white kid nekkid, and whipped him because the boy's father owed them $20 dollars, that just happened last weed, to be charged with "Hate Crimes" and called racist.

While I agree that I would like to see blacks convicted of hate crimes when they do indeed attack a victim just because of the race of the victim, but don't you have an actual example of that happening? It seems to me that in your example there was a motivation for the attack other than the race of the victim.

Any time two white boys whip up on a black or Gay person in this country it's called a hate crime. Even if they said, "This hurts us more than it hurts you" the whole time they did it. And they are labeled Racist, or Bigots.

Another interest fact is Black on Black crime is far higher. 93% of blacks murdered were done by other blacks. 49% of the murder victims in 2005 were black, as it was pointed out above, since African Americans account for less than 15% of the population, that's a staggering amount, more than three times what it should be.

CaptainShuddup says

Any time two white boys whip up on a black or Gay person in this country it's called a hate crime. Even if they said, "This hurts us more than it hurts you" the whole time they did it. And they are labeled Racist, or Bigots.

Your feeling that other crimes are mislabeled as hate crimes does not give any more credence to your example.

FortWayne says

Go back to 1865 and complain about lynching then. I'll even give you credit for talking about racism in the mid 70's. Not in 2013 though, time to move on

What about James Byrd?

I guess that's like saying, "terrorists may have attacked the US, but that was a long time ago, so I can't understand why the families and descendants of the victims are still upset".

Then if you decided to punish the victims' families disproportionately compared to non-victims, denied them jobs, and generally looked down on them for no other reason than their families had been victims.

Why harangue the black community?

CL says

Then if you decided to punish the victims families disproportionately compared to non-victims, denied them jobs, and generally looked down on them for no other reason than their families had been victims.

MLK was a victim, you are not a victim get over yourself.

CL says

The last thing most racists want to openly acknowledge is that they have institutional advantage. Because, goddamn it, I earned all that I have!

Inheriting wealth isn't racist. America is not about equality of results.

FortWayne says

MLK was a victim, you are not a victim get over yourself.

You missed the point. You're acting like the last crime of murder or oppression based on ethnicity happened during the civil war. That's patently false.

Society is unjust. It is moreso unjust if you're black and in America.

Why is black infant mortality higher in America than in Cuba? Why is black literacy higher in Cuba than America? Why is the rate of incarceration so high here for the black population?

Clearly, there is something in our system that makes it so. Denial of that fact, I'd say, typically means that the denier simply wants to ignore it, perhaps to make themselves feel better.

Are employers color-blind? Or are there preferences in hiring whites over blacks? Why were Asians, Irish and Italians tasked with manual labor, if they were hired at all? Does your ethnicity affect the jobs you are allowed to take? And do the jobs you take affect your health, wealth and class?

C'mon guys. This isn't anything shocking...These are things to fix, not "get over".

CL says

America has many racists, largely conservatives

America has plenty of racists, they are liberals who support affirmative action laws.

CL says

Society is unjust. It is moreso unjust if you're black and in America.

Not for Haitians and Jamaicans, wonder why that is?

Why harangue-atang the black community?

Damn leo, that's RACIST!

I hate racists, and I for one am glad that I don't have to interact with them here in my Good Neighborhood with Good Schools

CL says

Are employers color-blind? Or are there preferences in hiring whites over blacks?

Think I could get a Job at Jet Magazine or BET?
My brother and I moved down here in '87, he got out of the Army, and came to NC where I was working as an insulator on a nuclear power plant that was under construction. He told me he was headed down to Ft Lauderdale, and because he was a Vet, his chances of getting hired on at the USPS was great. (Notice he didn't say because he was White?)

Well we came down and he never did get that job, he was told there was a black and Hispanic quota they were mandated to fill. My brother took another job, and was at that job though 4 different buy outs and take overs, moved three times over 25 some odd years, and it ended up being part of Valspar. Which just closed down that division of Gelcoats and Resins last year.

I bet there is not one single person that got hired on at the Post office at the time he applied that is still there. IF I had a company, I would want a 100 employees just like my brother. The USPS lost out on one hell of an Employee in 1987, when they passed my brother over for affirmative action.

zzyzzx says

post of the year...

CaptainShuddup says

The USPS lost out on one hell of an Employee in 1987, when they passed my brother over for affirmative action.

The USPS is (I believe) the largest or 2nd largest employer of Veterans in the country. Sounds like affirmative action for vets.

Weird that your brother couldn't land a gig there.

CaptainShuddup says

Not for Haitians and Jamaicans, wonder why that is?

Explain that?

CL says

Explain that?

I've never met a Haitian or a Jamaican in THIS country that feels oppressed by White People or that the system is holding them back somehow.
They are just too busy taking advantage of everything this country has to offer. Sure many have to work several jobs, but on average more Haitians and Jamaicans per population, are home owners compared to even Whites in this country.

Why do I say that? Down here in south Florida, most American Black communities are run down shacks that a few may own, but most rent. Where as there are several Haitian Jamaican communities where the majority of the houses are larger than the neighborhood I live in, and the majority owns.

And in the nice gated neighborhoods, the Majority of the Black people there are from the Caribbean islands.

That's not to say there are not poor Blacks from the islands, but then again there's plenty of White Trailer parks down here as well. Do they win a prize for being poor?

CL says

Weird that your brother couldn't land a gig there.

That was actually 1985, although I said '87.

CaptainShuddup says

That's not to say there are not poor Blacks from the islands, but then again there's plenty of White Trailer parks down here as well. Do they win a prize for being poor?

Right. Race and class are tightly correlated HERE. That's not to say all people of the lowest class are black. That's a logic error.

And there are a lot of poor folks in Florida.

As far as BET, I'd say that's an error too. Isn't it owned by Viacom? I'm sure Viacom will be mostly white. I'm not even sure you can call BET truly black programming, or is it programming that white people THINk black people like?

From what I've seen only Jamaicans with money even make it over to this country. When was the last time you saw a Jamaican refugee boat exodus?
They are either educated or part of a criminal network.
And Haitians knows what sheer desperation is. They didn't risk floating across the Florida straights on a rickety boat that might capsize with hundreds of feet from the coast and drown everyone on board(it has happened many times. Haitians can't swim), to come over here and play poor victim of poverty.

I used to work for two brothers, that came here from Haiti in the early 80s with nothing. Landed in NYC drove a Cab, saved money bought a fleet, sold it. Moved to south Florida started two prepaid phone services. Sold those, bought AM radio stations. Now they own every Caribbean radio station in almost every market in the US.
They also spent a lot of time dabbling in local politics to make sure their and the community needs were being met.

So, Cap'n reveals a few important points: There is nothing race-specific about genetics and success.

2nd, that those who struggle to get here might actually work harder than those who were born here (immigration plug!).

Lastly, how appealing it would be for racists to conclude, "that Jamaican...he's one of the "good ones", but the existence of a "good one" destroys the whole racist dynamic, n'est-ce pas?

What ever funny the people most hung up on Race in this country are White Liberals. Everything else is Class and Social issues. That is what Blacks are concerned with, because the truth is, Sam Roberts the belligerent redneck drunk at the end of the street, that sneers at them as he drives his '72 Ford truck past them. Doesn't have one single baring on their status, where they live, the car they drive, where they work, or where they go to school.
He's in the same damn boat they are, so they just call him Cracker as he drives by.

Though that's not to say that the "N" word isn't a good cause for fist-a-cuffs, but then again, so is wearing a basket ball jersey of the opposing team during the conference championships.

Those horrible bastards in their Orlando Magic jerseys please somebody make them stop.

CL says

Society is unjust. It is moreso unjust if you're black and in America.

Why is black infant mortality higher in America than in Cuba? Why is black literacy higher in Cuba than America? Why is the rate of incarceration so high here for the black population?

Get over yourself, the man running this country is black. Obama is black.

If that's not a sign for some losers to get off welfare and self pitying excuse train to start making a life for themselves there will never be a better one.

FortWayne says

Get over yourself, the man running this country is black. Obama is black.

If that's not a sign for some losers to get off welfare and self pitying excuse train to start making a life for themselves there will never be a better one.

This wrong on almost all counts:

First, I don't have to "get over myself". I just supplied some facts and asked the questions. What do we do about inequality?

Second, electing a black president does not solve the systemic problems I mentioned.

Third, why do you conflate being black with being on welfare? How does one do that, especially when there is high unemployment?

Fourth, Presidents are not the only entity at the table. There are teabaggers and angry white voters that wouldn't let a President make progress on something as innocuous as infant mortality. They'd say, you just want to give handouts to those dying babies to score votes!

In other words, I don't really understand your points.