patrick.net

Why should anyone pay more taxes to the government, based on some arbitrary number 200k and 250k... just more racket by the unions who can never sustain their lala land benefits that they promised to themselves.

FortWayne says

Why should anyone pay more taxes to the government, based on some arbitrary number 200k and 250k... just more racket by the unions who can never sustain their lala land benefits that they promised to themselves.

This quote establishes that there is NO point in trying to discuss the merit of any given tax with FortWayne, specifically. He does not think taxes have any merit, so just forget it.

However, there is still merit in pointing out lies(*) about taxes, when the right-wingers feel that the truth just is not good enough to make their point. We can keep that part of the discussion going, it definitely has value.

(*) Not by FortWayne, necessarily, although he did exhibit some ignorance about the nature of this is particular tax in the above postings.

If wanting to keep other people's hands off my wallet makes me a "right-winger" does someone wanting to take it make them a thief or just an asshole?

StoutFiles says

This country is going broke and the middle class has been carrying the load the whole time. It's about time the upper class starts helping out.

StoutFiles says

It's about time the upper class starts helping out.

They pay the majority of the taxes.

Not taking sides, just stating facts.

Upper class you refer too are just well-off not super mega wealthy
rich.

The super-mega wealthy rich are the ones who don't pay hardly any tax because they can hire very good accountants and attorneys to fight it.

But that's besides the point... Most of the taxes in this country are unconstitutional and are going towards complete waste.

Taxing people and starting a war against the upper class is not going to solve nothing except feeding the people who forcefully demand the illegal tax money that ends up going to waste anyway.

The US deficit, debts and tax problems are a nationwide systemic problem not a financial problem.

StoutFiles says

That's your decision though; it doesn't change the fact that you're technically rich.

Rich is having a incoming high cash flow compared to the rest of the population.

Wealth is having a high preservation of an asset that may either go up in value or down.

Being wealthy and rich are two different concepts. Just as saving wealth is different than making money that maybe saved, converted and turned into an asset.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Taxing people and starting a war against the upper class is not going to solve nothing except feeding the people who forcefully demand the illegal tax money that ends up going to waste anyway.

The US deficit, debts and tax problems are a nationwide systemic problem not a financial problem.

Is a problem of spending too much, not because of insufficient revenue. Increasing taxes and printing money don't solve the root problem, government needs to exercise self-restraints.

hanera says

Is a problem of spending too much, not because of insufficient revenue. Increasing taxes and printing money don't solve the root problem, government needs to exercise self-restraints.

Which is exactly what I said.

hanera says

Is a problem of spending too much, not because of insufficient revenue. Increasing taxes and printing money don't solve the root problem, government needs to exercise self-restraints

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Which is exactly what I said

And you're both wrong. Spending cuts AND increased revenue are both needed. Additionally, changes in tax structure are needed to reduce income inequality.

You can bring up the class warfare bullshit, but it's pretty simple. In order to increase tax revenue, you have to get it from rich people--poor people simply don't have any to give.

tatupu70 says

AND increased revenue are both needed.

No it's not.

tatupu70 says

In order to increase tax revenue, you have to get it from rich people

In order to increase business profitability due to over-taxation, you have to now lay off 10,000 workers and decrease paychecks for existing workers.

Nice job with that tax structure, tatupu70.

tatupu70 says

You can bring up the class warfare bullshit

There is a very real and very much unneeded class warfare happening in America.

tatupu70 says

poor people simply don't have any to give.

And then neither will the rich people.

Your idea is a most idiotic one. And over the history of this forum... I have personally always have you come across as a know-it all.

Taxation of any group will always result in indirect taxation of other groups.

All that tax money is going to pay interest on bogus debt of paper money created by the fraud called the "Federal Reserve" which is a private bank that lends money to the government. The agency working on it's behalf is the "IRS"...

Go and support more illegal taxes, tatupu70...

The truly mega rich will still not pay any tax and even if they were forced all of them would pack their bags and leave...

Mega-rich people are not attached to anything. They do not get emotional. If they have to leave the USA... They will...

You can than enjoy getting laid off from a job that a rich person is providing for you. Have fun eating your own shit for dinner...

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

In order to increase business profitability due to over-taxation, you have to now lay off 10,000 workers and decrease paychecks for existing workers.
Nice job with that tax structure, tatupu70.

How will increasing taxes on the wealthy affect business profitability? Decreasing income inequality will lead to MORE sales and MORE jobs, not fewer.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

The truly mega rich will still not pay any tax and even if they were forced all of them would pack their bags and leave...

Good--don't let the door hit them in the ass as they leave.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

You can than enjoy getting laid off from a job that a rich person is providing for you. Have fun eating your own shit for dinner...

The rich don't provide the jobs. Nice try though.

tatupu70 says

Decreasing income inequality will lead to MORE sales and MORE jobs, not fewer.

We are talking about INCREASING TAX not income equality.

Learn to read and stay on topic.

Increasing taxes on the rich is not going to do anything except make them do cutbacks in business and layoff employees.

Less people with jobs and money would lead to LESS sales and LESS jobs, not more.

tatupu70 says

Good--don't let the door hit them in the ass as they leave.

Have fun with communism.

tatupu70 says

The rich don't provide the jobs. Nice try though.

Honestly... Really? You Believe That?

This statement really makes me think you are either...

1) A Troll
2) Mentally Disabled
3) Extremely Jealous of Rich People & Deluded By Your Jealousy to Believe Such Idiotic Statements.
4) A Kid.
5) A Combination of All Four

Show me any person that ever claimed a poor person gave them a job and I will show you a liar.

Please... Stop commenting. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

But what about Warren Buffet's (now famous) line: "there IS class warfare, and my side is winning" or something to that effect?

I don't think we need to go back to an 80% top marginal tax rate, but I think it's crazy that Warren Buffet often pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.

It seems like the capital gains tax should be raised for "ultra-high" net worth individuals. Or, if we still want to do the Reaganomics thing, we should at least lower middle class tax rates to the capital-gains tax rate. But that's probably not possible given our massive deficits.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

We are talking about INCREASING TAX not income equality

Wrong. We are talking about changing the tax code and making it more progressive. That is one method for reducing income inequality. The current income disparity is the #1 problem with our economy right now IMO. Any changes to the tax code have to be made with this in mind.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Honestly... Really? You Believe That?

Yes, because it's true. You have been fed right wing propaganda and have lapped it up like a little kitten. The rich have become exponentially more wealthy over the last 20-30 years. According to you, that should have created lots of jobs, right?? Well, where are they??

Demand creates jobs. End of story. When you move the money into the hands of people that will spend it, then you will create jobs.

tatupu70 says

Demand creates jobs. End of story. When you move the money into the hands of people that will spend it, then you will create jobs.

True. The lower-classes end up giving the money right back to the banking aristocracy. With jobs created in the process...at least temporarily.

Ever see Dave Cheppelle's "Slave Reparations" episode? You know, the "I'm rich, biiatch...*honk-honk*" episode.

wthrfrk80 says

The lower-classes end up giving the money right back to the banking aristocracy. With jobs created in the process...at least temporarily

True--some will naturally make it's way back to the top. Which is why a progressive tax code is needed to continuously counter this natural movement towards the rich gettting richer and the poor poorer.

tatupu70 says

When you move the money into the hands of people that will spend it, then you will create jobs.

No. Spending per say doesn't create jobs. It creates a lack of savings, debt and poverty.

Innovation, invention, production, factories, manufacturing and advertising create the jobs.

tatupu70 says

Demand creates jobs.

Demand entices a capitalist to start a business for that demand. The business then hires.

You need money for business. Usually people with money own businesses. Therefore rich people hire mostly.

tatupu70 says

Well, where are they??

When you create labor unions... That's what you get. Capitalists and barons are not going to put with bullshit demands of employee benefits and the never-ending list of entitlements.

I personally can care less about outsourcing. I support it. Their is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about it.

You whining sheeple need to grow up out of your narcissism to think you aren't easily replaceable.

If a company hired you for 20 years and then fired you... So what? They agreed to pay you as they wish when they need you and that's it. They never agreed to marry you forever...

tatupu70 says

That is one method for reducing income inequality.

Income equality will only be possible with communism. There can NEVER be income equality in a free fair capitalist market because you will always have some lazy deadbeat piece of fuck who refuses to put in any type of work...

This concept can only be supported by someone that is dumb.

Study the 80/20 rule.

Throughout ALL of human history... 20% will always own 80% of wealth. This has been the case in every single type of system and government.

tatupu70 says

The current income disparity is the #1 problem with our economy right now IMO

I think more a lack of fairness is the problem. I will agree with you that they are people who earn a lot less than they should...

But I completely disagree that income equality would ever happen because not everyone DESERVES and EARNS the same income.

Some people make $1 million because they EARNED it and others make $30K because that's ONLY what they EARNED.

tatupu70 says

You have been fed right wing propaganda

Communism isn't too great either.

tatupu70 says

Wrong. We are talking about changing the tax code and making it more progressive.

NO, YOU ARE WRONG! Period!!!!

That's called raising the taxes on people with higher income. Not only is that increasing taxes but that's creating income inequality by taking more from people just because they make more money... The very thing you disdain.

That's discrimination based on income, exploiting people and punishing hard work. Hard work being punished and laziness being rewarded is a perfect recipe for income inequality.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/progressivetax.asp

Read that link and stop being such a stupid damn idiot. Epic fail...

It's so obvious that you have a passion of jealousy for people who have stuff that you don't.

And by the way...

The US already has an extremely progressive tax system.

You claim, tatupu70... That we need more of it.

Well obviously it's not working. Yet you still support it.

"Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result each time is the definition of insanity."
-Albert Einstein.

Please develop some intelligence. But hey... Sheeple love being stupid

tatupu70 says

to continuously counter this natural movement towards the rich gettting richer and the poor poorer.

Rich getting richer because the poor are stupid enough not to work harder, fail to compete or do anything about it is fair game.

Survival of the fittest.

tatupu70 says

progressive tax code is needed

We already fucking have one...

And the taxes that are collected do not go back to the poor. They just pay off interest from phony debt created by paper currency.

This encourages more debt and more inflation. The people most hurt by inflation are the poor.

Rich people do not have all their majority assets in paper money. They tend to hold physical valuable appreciating assets.

tatupu70 says

The rich have become exponentially more wealthy over the last 20-30 years.

Good. Fuck you peasants.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

No. Spending per say doesn't create jobs. It creates a lack of savings, debt and poverty.

That statement is so ridiculous, I'm not even sure how to respond to it. If this is truly how you think, I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Demand entices a capitalist to start a business for that demand. The business then hires

See, you do understand. Now don't let the propaganda take over....

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

You need money for business. Usually people with money own businesses. Therefore rich people hire mostly.

Crap. Too late. OK--let me try this a different way. Small businesses in the US account for roughly 50% of the GDP and more than half of US employment. The vast majority of those businesses were NOT formed by rich people.

The US isn't lacking for jobs because of a lack of capital. Look at interest rates. There is so much money sitting around right now looking for investments that it is laughable.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

When you create labor unions... That's what you get

More right wing BS. Labor unions are not the problem. And the rest of your rant is completely off topic. We're not talking about outsourcing--where the hell did that come from?

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

But I completely disagree that income equality would ever happen because not everyone DESERVES and EARNS the same income.
Some people make $1 million because they EARNED it and others make $30K because that's ONLY what they EARNED.

I'm laughing right now. So, what did the CEO do that EARNED him 300X more than the guy that actually performed the labor to make the widget?? What did the guy on Wall St. do to EARN his 8 figure bonus check? Really? They EARNED it?

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Communism isn't too great either.

Nope. I agree. Nobody wants communism.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Not only is that increasing taxes but that's creating income inequality by taking more from people just because they make more money... The very thing you disdain.

Uh, if you take money from the rich and give it to the poor, that reduced income inequality. I hope you get that.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

That's discrimination based on income, exploiting people and punishing hard work. Hard work being punished and laziness being rewarded is a perfect recipe for income inequality.

Nope. It's called creating an economy that allows everyone to succeed. Forgive me if I don't cry a river because someone making $2MM/year has to pay 30% taxes instead of 15%.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

The US already has an extremely progressive tax system.
You claim, tatupu70... That we need more of it.
Well obviously it's not working. Yet you still support it.

The US USED to have an extrememly progressive tax system. And it did work VERY well.

Then Mr. Reagan came along and blew it apart. And things have gone to the toilet ever since.

This is well documented.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Rich getting richer because the poor are stupid enough not to work harder, fail to compete or do anything about it is fair game.

That's a nice narrative, but we all know it's bullshit. The rich do not get richer becuase they work harder. Let's agree to put that myth to bed.

tatupu70 says

See, you do understand. Now don't let the propaganda take over....

Demand is useless without capital and funding enterprise it.

tatupu70 says

That statement is so ridiculous, I'm not even sure how to respond to it. If this is truly how you think, I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time.

This statement is so useless and full of useless opinion, I'm not even sure why it matters to say. If this is truly how you think, I'm not sure why I'm typing this right now.

tatupu70 says

There is so much money sitting around right now looking for investments that it is laughable.

Which would create inflation anyway... That point is mute altogether.

tatupu70 says

The US isn't lacking for jobs because of a lack of capital.

Yes it is. Why else are companies outsourcing, hiring cheaper labor and cutting costs as much as possible?

tatupu70 says

We're not talking about outsourcing--where the hell did that come from?

You asked...

tatupu70 says

According to you, that should have created lots of jobs, right?? Well, where are they??

OUTSOURCING AND COMPUTER AUTOMATION!!!

tatupu70 says

Labor unions are not the problem

They are the biggest problem. I know a guy who owns a small-business grocery store...

And the labor unions are completely corrupt. They are completely hurting is business.

Labor unions make it a lot more tough for small businesses.

tatupu70 says

Crap. Too late. OK--let me try this a different way. Small businesses in the US account for roughly 50% of the GDP and more than half of US employment. The vast majority of those businesses were NOT formed by rich people.

If that's true...

Progressive taxes actually hurt these people. Mega-corporations like Amazon, Google, Microsoft and Apple... Do not pay these taxes.

Your support of progressive tax will never hurt the wealthy like I originally said.

They will only hurt well-off people NOT rich or wealthy but like I well-off people.

Mega-rich and wealthy have accountants along with the lawyers to prevent that.

tatupu70 says

So, what did the CEO do that EARNED him 300X more than the guy that actually performed the labor to make the widget??

The audacity to look a peasant in the eye... And tell him to bow down to the company in worship.

Very people have such an ability and without it... The company can't make thr widget.

Basically he is the leader. Without a leader, nothing can be successful. Leaders are responsible for all failures and success.

tatupu70 says

What did the guy on Wall St. do to EARN his 8 figure bonus check? Really? They EARNED it?

Being a wall street con-artist... Takes a lack of morality. Most people have morals 'm afraid.

When you rob someone, you teach them a lesson. That's how thieves earns their money. Only thieves who are caught get punished because they failed to do their job and should be taught to steal better.

tatupu70 says

if you take money from the rich and give it to the poor, that reduced income inequality

No. That's providing a income to someone who can't do it themselves. That's not income equality because the rich person has to work more to get money for himself while the poor person has other get some money for him.

And taxes you pay will never go much to the poor. Even if it did, socialism failed in all of history.

Peasants will always exist. Who CARES about the poor. It's their problem.

tatupu70 says

Nope. It's called creating an economy that allows everyone to succeed.

Not everyone wants to succeed.

tatupu70 says

The rich do not get richer becuase they work harder

I only partially agree with you. They do also work smarter. But the defiantly put in some hard work BUT only once... They work hard and smart to set-up the business. Then the employees do all the work while they relax and do nothing...

Fuck you peasants.

tatupu70 says

The US USED to have an extrememly progressive tax system. And it did work VERY well.

Socialism has always failed.

Progressive and anti-business states are also failing.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Yes it is. Why else are companies outsourcing, hiring cheaper labor and cutting costs as much as possible?

Because then the top execs can earn $10MM instead of $5MM. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with a lack of capital.

How do draw any connection between a perceived lack of capital and outsourcing??

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Which is exactly what I said.

I was agreeing with you.

tatupu70 says

the top execs can earn $10MM instead of $5MM.

Because companies need them. Without someone being a able to run a company properly which includes managing, directing and giving orders...

The company can fail. CEO is the leader for the company. They can either make or break the company.

You just can't get this through your head...

A phone rep in India can be just as good as a phone rep in the US. It will not make much of a difference for the company and they can hire the indian worker much much cheaper.

So it has everything to do with CAPITAL... They don't want to waste it and I don't have a single problem with that.

I would do the same as well.

hanera says

I was agreeing with you.

Ohh, I thought you were disagreeing.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Because companies need them. Without someone being a able to run a company properly which includes managing, directing and giving orders...
The company can fail. CEO is the leader for the company. They can either make or break the company.

And companies could find someone to do just as well for 1/100th of the salary they are paying their current CEO. But instead of cutting costs at the executive level, they choose to cut them at the lowest levels instead.

tatupu70 says

And companies could find someone to do just as well for 1/100th of the salary they are paying their current CEO.

Again...

The CEO is the leader of the whole entire company. Everything is his fault. If the company messes up, he messes up.

This position carries a lot of responsibility, work, stress, pressure and very very good leadership abilities.

Hardly anybody is going to accept 1/100th of current salaries.

CEOs must be compensated properly.

Why pay the low levels more money? They are the bottom feeders of the pyramid. That's how every corporation works. It's a pyramid structure.

By the way, you are the one assuming every company pays their CEO that much.

I wouldn't want to be a CEO, even with the pay and perks.

Too much stress. I'd probably spend most of my money on Psychiatrists and meds.

Mr. R B E Scum-- The largest and most powerful corporations are BANKS-- All CEO suck up to banks--the largest banks-- Being a good CEO has little to do with "running" the company and everything to do with "capitalization".If a CEO won't play the banks game he/she is replaced by one who will. In the current business decade its called "crony capitalism". In previous decades it was called corruption. Corruption is a tax on wealth generation. By some guesses as high as 10% of the GNP.

Inflation of the fiat is a tax. Since 1913 it has eroded by some guesses 80% or more of the wealth of the nation.

Access to government and the establishment of monopolies and favorable business laws for those with that access by the "representatives of the people" are another "tax" on the wealth of the nation by corporations. Some guess as high as 40% of lost incentive
for small business.

I know you don't believe me and will use antidotes to "prove" me wrong how ever it is very hard to hide the fact that this country has almost no savings compared to other countries of the world. Could it be that we are paying so much hidden tax that there is nothing left to save? Or is it just bad upbringing that makes us stupid spenders?

I think its time to put hard penalties on CEO malpractice and malfeasance. All CEO are protected by corporate law and that must be changed. Vote the bastards out--get the laws changed.