patrick.net

ArtimusMaxtor says

To keep you in debt is one more trademark of their henious doings. In short a car is something that is great when its new. Something you can drive down the road in terror wondering how your going to make the payments when something goes wrong on the jobbie. You know you have to get it all straight or lose your wheels. Same thing with where you live. Or your food of course. Screw up on the jobbie. With your a lifestyle that is nothing but dependence on that jobbie. Your life flashes before your eyes of course in that moment when you screw up or your caught or you misbehave. People once again that just ain't natural. Don't live in terror. It's easier to put something together on the earth for yourself than you know. Take the first step even those "Robber Barrons" could tell you that and your on your way after you make up your mind to do it.

You are very much right about this.

If the majority of people grew their own food, had no property taxes and we had free energy...

No such thing as poverty could exist except for those who refuse to work or are lazy.

There’s an interesting way of placing the term “old technology” in perspective that I often think about. A 1962 Chevrolet Impala, one of the most beautiful cars of that era, is 50 years old this year. Yet a ’62 Impala, or ’62 anything for that matter, can travel on the highway or street with barely more than a second glance, and that usually an admiring one. It can hold its own in any measure of performance or comfort with that of a current model. However, in 1962, a 50 year old Chevrolet (1912--Chevy’s first year) was of such a rudimentary stage of development that it was barely out of the horseless carriage era, not even having a self-starter, and could in no way hope to equal the performance or comfort capabilities of the 1962 model, or even one in the 20’s! Its presence on a 1962 street or highway would be an occasion for great amazement and interest on the part of other motorists and the 1912 car would most likely be found only in antique car shows such were its limited capabilities. It indeed looked and performed like an “old” car. Progress continued throughout the 20’s and 30’s, but when World War II started, automobiles were still at a stage that makes them seem by comparison to today’s models “old” cars: slow, black and lumpy.

When the ’46 models once again began rolling off assembly lines at the end of ’45, they were still riding on a chassis that had been developed for the environment of the mid to late 30’s, then frozen in place for five years. In 1949, all Big Three manufacturers abandoned the 30’s design for what came to be known as the three-box design, establishing the basic envelope of the automobile for the next 50 years. By 1955, every line of car, including the low-priced three of Chevy, Ford and Plymouth could be bought equipped with a powerful V-8, automatic transmission, power steering and brakes, radio and heater and most importantly factory installed air-conditioning—which had first been used by Packard in 1940, but abandoned after the war. In six years, every discomfort and inconvenience that had plagued motoring since its beginning in 1900 had been eliminated, making it possible to drive anywhere at any time of the year in complete ease and comfort. In the intervening 57 years, electronics and computers have replaced hydraulics and vacuum in most control systems, service intervals have been greatly extended, safety and emission controls have been added, but the basic layout of a 2011 car is not that remote from one of 1955. That’s why a 1955 Chevy or Pontiac can be driven in modern traffic with barely a nod to the 57 years separating the current models.

I agree 100% with the premise that cars are overpriced and should've decreased dramatically in price for being over a century old in technology and innovation. People are totally oblivious to the actual price; because, all they see are the monthly payments. If the actual price or MSRP were explicitly advertised, there would be mass protests all over the streets for price gouging. The root cause if the high price is attributed to the unions, where in some cases employees make in excess of $60/hour. Most doctors and lawyers don't make that much! In the free market, companies compete for customers by producing high-quality products for the lowest prices. They win by getting the customer's business and customers win by buying something valuable at an affordable price. Nowadays, the system is totally broken. Companies are constantly cutting corners with inferior materials and are forced to line the pockets of their unionized employees, which do way more harm than good. Bottom line: cars are grossly overpriced and are thus because most people are completely oblivious or complacent to the status quo.

Bump…

Cars have become very expensive lately including used cars.

Explain….

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Bump…

Cars have become very expensive lately including used cars.

Explain….

Probably on purpose. Some type of fraud. I'm with you, and Patrick mentioned this once also, a very cheap car should be made. Only power brakes and power steering. Disc brakes, air bags and a proven 4 cylinder. Basic basic basic for under $10k. They'd sell faster than ice cubes in the Sahara. And they could probably get, what, 25-30 mpg? But, I don't think that's the plan for us plebes.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Bump…

Cars have become very expensive lately including used cars.

Explain….

Yes, it's a scam. Just about everything is.

The technology has improved such as fuel mileage and corrosion prevention. They also last a lot longer than cars made in the 1970s - 1990s. Hence, view the cost as far as total ownership costs for vehicles that last for at least 12 to 15 years.

The cheapest cars are $17,000 to $20,000.

https://www.motor1.com/features/631073/cheapest-cars-trucks-suvs-2023/

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Cars don't have to have 4 cylinders anymore, nor do they need a huge power battery.
They could make a car with a 15hp Small engine powering a generator and power the electric motors directly..
Cars don't have to be as fancy or as heavy as they are either.

ad, still seems like they could build an even cheaper car. If the government is going to be in the mandating business and they wanted to promote their greenie paradise, they could mandate a very cheap car with pretty good gas mileage. It would probably do a good job of getting the older cars off the road.

GNL says

ad, still seems like they could build an even cheaper car. If the government is going to be in the mandating business and they wanted to promote their greenie paradise, they could mandate a very cheap car with pretty good gas mileage. It would probably do a good job of getting the older cars off the road.

I read that new and small cars in India such as Tatas sell for less than $10,000. I suspect its just not financially attractive for GM, Ford, Honda, Nissan, etc. to sell that cheap of a car.

Ford, with its UAW workforce, makes most of its profit from trucks like the F 150 as well as its mid size to large SUVs.

Cheapest car I could find in the USA is around $17,000 MSRP for a Nissan. Look at it and it still has high-tech features compared to 25 to 30 years ago.

Each 5 year period brings new technology due to government regulations and/or consumer trends.

...

I did look at the link. I thought the Ford pickup was interesting. And, for the first time, that I know of, I saw one of them on the road today.

GNL says

I did look at the link. I thought the Ford pickup was interesting. And, for the first time, that I know of, I saw one of them on the road today.

Yeah the Ford Maverick truck is made in Mexico and that explains why it is not expensive.

https://www.powernationtv.com/post/ford-maverick-least-american-truck

Our 2021 Honda CRV is about 73% made in USA with non union labor. Its more American made than the Ford Maverick.

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ad says

Yeah the Ford Maverick truck is made in Mexico and that explains why it is not expensive.

It's a hybrid and there's no gas only option. No go for me.

Tenpoundbass says

It's a hybrid and there's no gas only option. No go for me.

The hybrid version adds $1500. There is a gas only option for the Ford Maverick and out the door or net price is around $25,000.

https://shop.ford.com/configure/maverick/config/paint/Config%5B%7CFord%7CMaverick%7C2024%7C1%7C1.%7C...PNE...999.XL.%5D

Not very powerful this is the AWD option.

zachj says

The root cause if the high price is attributed to the unions, where in some cases employees make in excess of $60/hour.

Labor comprises only 5% of a car's cost these days.

Tenpoundbass says

Cars don't have to have 4 cylinders anymore, nor do they need a huge power battery.
They could make a car with a 15hp Small engine powering a generator and power the electric motors directly..
Cars don't have to be as fancy or as heavy as they are either.

Could and will are 2 different things. By not offering basic models, they are forcing people to buy more expensive and profitable models. Even something like the most base Chevy Trax has a ton of standard items that you don't need, like:

Automatic Emergency Braking
Forward Collision Alert
Front Pedestrian Braking
Following Distance Indicator
Lane Keep Assist with Lane Departure Warning

And the above mentioned items use sensors that are in the windshield / bumper / light assembly that are expensive and going to require programming if they ever need to be replaced.

You also don't need cruise control, traction control, air bags, Engine air filter life monitor, and you are better off with a regular manual parking brake than the standard electronic parking brake. I would also hate the capless fuel fill, which is also going to cause problems eventually, especially if you live someplace that does emissions testing. It also comes standard with power windows, which, I have also found to be extremely unreliable in the long run. The body colored door handles means that if you break a door handle, it's also not a cheap fix. I will also hate the Tire Pressure Monitoring System since that is also something else I don't need or want that's going to increase maintenance costs.

On a more expensive vehicle it's only going to have more of this extra crap that you don't need.